BLF17DD Info Thread - Reference

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Mitko
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I got this for home use last year, and its the best 8 euros deal i had( bought it localy)

Modded the build in diodes with Nichias 5000k(5mm, 32k mcd)

Tom E
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That's a pretty darn nice setup, specially with Nichia's. Like it! Might be worth look'n around for.

Mitko
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Yeah TOm, the lens are glass ones( borosillicate, at least they stated so) the stand is high enough, has a build in 3xAA battery case, came with 220v adapter and a solder iron stand but i removed it
It has 6 emitters in that lamp but the default ones had a huge blue tint

For 8 euros its a great deal, prolly it could be found cheaper in the US( here we have massive taxes and VAT)..but even if it costed 15 i would buy it, i had several “third hands” bt this one is the best so far

MRsDNF
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Thanks to Tom E and his embossing gun idea this has been my set up for led reflows and one unsuccessful attempt at a driver build. It works like a dream for me reflowing leds. The helping hands are raised and lowered depending on how quick I want the item to heat up and how hot it gets.

The embossing guns wire clip stand just sits on the ally RHS and the gun removed without effort when not being used.

For anyone in Australia the gun came from Spotlight though compared to Chinese prices was not that cheap. The helping hands came from Jaycar at a real cheap price and have no issues with the magnifying glass that came with it. The small alligator clips are pretty flimsy though the way they are mounted in their holders but do the job. I also use the ally RHS as a spot to sit drivers etc when holding them in the helping hands to stop downward movement when soldering etc.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Tom E
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Oh crap! That's sooo much better than how I do it. Hhmmmm. Maybe I can use those helping hands... I gotta try it that way!

Mitko
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Why so complicated setup m8? I use the oven at 1( after approx 1 minute that plate is exacly at 200deg C) and a Cu plate from an old Athlon heatsink that has that thick Cu plate- never failed me so far, never! Smile

Tom E
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Ahh - nicer than my old beat up frying pan Smile.

My latest FET+1 batch of drivers:

ChibiM
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I'm still doing everything with a cheap soldering iron (fail).

Tom E
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Ahh - the soldering iron was bout the only thing I didn't do cheap. Love my Hakko... Still under $100 so you can spend more, but it's rock solid quality, not too many bells/whistles.

guardior
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Tom E wrote:

Smile The host size for DD is pretty much personal opinions but there’s also a lot of contributing factors:



  • turbo timeout to run hi/turbo for only limited amt of time, or better yet, temp monitoring

  • outside temp. – winter outdoors at 20F may be just fine for DD in a thin tube light

  • battery dependent – don’t want 6A? Ok, run a Pana PF that gives you only 5A max, or TrustFire Flame that gets you 4A max

  • don’t use high/turbo modes too often – only short bursts. Use the next mode down for most usages

  • the max amps you will get is dependent on the LED/MCPCB – some are only capable of 4-5A max DD while others can go to 6.5A or so at the most (most I’ve seen)

  • thermal path, mass, heat sink/fins for the critical areas can vary – the bigger light isn’t always the best

  • I’d recommend only an aluminum (not plastic) reflector lights for high amps for runtimes over 1 min. I’ve smoked plastic reflectors a little in a 16340 DD light (MXDL) doin bout 950 lumens in a neutral tint

  • might be ok for the head to get toasty, but probably not so good if the high heat gets down to the cell or any length of time

  • you don’t have to have super high amps for all DD setups – keep LED wires small, don’t bypass the springs and you’ll reduce amps and heat

 I got a 14500 size light, the G10 (dx.com/uniquefire-g10) doin bout 1,100 lumens with a 15DD driver, but actually it’s a pretty chunky little light, big for AA size.


Was that a yes or no for a DD Convoy C8? Silly So much to think about, but the battery sounds like a good idea to not go too high. Noctigon XM-L2 in a Convoy C8 should be able to take around 5A for some time I think. And on a related note, is it possible to run 105d firmware on the DD driver MTN is selling?
Ronin42
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[quote=Tom E]

Smile The host size for DD is pretty much personal opinions but there’s also a lot of contributing factors:



  • turbo timeout to run hi/turbo for only limited amt of time, or better yet, temp monitoring

  • outside temp. – winter outdoors at 20F may be just fine for DD in a thin tube light

  • battery dependent – don’t want 6A? Ok, run a Pana PF that gives you only 5A max, quote]

    Tom is it possible that the panny 18650pf is actually 10A?


    Hey guys, Calvin from Illumination Supply here. We’re a small company based in San Jose, CA who specialize in high powered LED flashlights. Recently since the e-cigarette and vaping scene started, there has been some crossover activity among our flashlight products.

    The product listed above is not an IMR but a hybrid chemistry: LiNiCoMnO2. It is the successor to the NCR18650PD battery and can sustain a 10A discharge. Battery purchases in pairs will receive free cases: http://i.imgur.com/n7q75Q9.png

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

RMM
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Ronin, it looks like you need to do some reading about forward voltage. 

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Tom E
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Oops - didn't see these replies til now.

guardior - well if I would do the mod, I would definitely do DD in a UltraFire/Convoy C8. I used to be much more conservative in worrying about high amps, but now, I flipped nearly completely around. I find it hard to go back to 7135 based drivers now.

Here's my reasons:

  • it's nearly impossible to burn out a CREE LED in a DD configuration when it's mounted on a copper DTP MCPCB (assuming avg/good heat junctions to the body) - you really don't have to worry about that at all - this I didn't know 1-2 years ago. The forward voltage (Vf) level of the CREE LED's will always keep the amps to moderate levels, plus as a cell drains, the amps will naturally drop because the voltage level continuously drops, again, it's a natural protection mechanism all based on the forward voltage (Vf) of the LED .
  • you can set up any light for max output, then if you don't want that, use a standard cell like a Pana B to run at lower amps, or comprising will a 10A rated cell like a Pana PF or Pana BD, etc.
  • implement a turbo timeout to keep the heat from getting excessive
  • a light left on high/turbo til it gets too hot to even touch still causes no damage. Well I dunno if this is always the case, but it happened to me twice: once with a modded out SupFire M6, once with a 18650 EDC configured at 2.8A, and both times there was no perceived damage to any parts, including the cells.

Hope this helps. Again, it's all personal opinion/usgae, or subject to the target user. Certainly if I were to give/sell a modded high amps or DD light to someone not knowledgeable of the risks and has small kids that will have access to the light, I would be VERY concerned about putting that light in their hands that didn't have temperature monitoring based amp control.

 

Ronin42 - as RMM mentioned, amp max capabilities of the cell are not obtainable for a DD set up of one cell with one CREE XM-L2. The Vf requirement of the LED will limit the max amps. There's some really good data posted here on BLF showing the Vf levels compared to amps (for example, see post #51 here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/22570). The higher the amps, the higher the Vf is, so typical 3.7 Li-Ion cells can't deliver a high enough voltage level to drive a XM-L2 at 10A, or even 8A. Highest I've been able to achieve is ~6.5A.

RMM
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The highest you're likely to achieve lately is ~5A-5.5A.  The new ones usually won't handle much over 6A. 

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Mitko
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Mitko wrote:
For the BLF17DD driver: whats the most suitable mosfet atm, as long as 70N02 isnt awailable anymore and Digikey EU shipping fee is 55$- anybody from Europe found a suitable solution?

Actualy there are Aliexpress offers for 70N02 and AOD510 but i aint sure in their quality

What do you think of this one

Well, it seems this one ended not that bad, it even has a bit higher max current using U2 1A/U2 than PSMN3R0-30YLD( like 100-200ma)
But it doesnt handle If<50ma

Testing Tom`s ramping firmware atm

As Richards said- like 5.5 amps

Simon`s T6 4C( Convoy electronics) could reach 6.5 though

Tom E
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RMM wrote:

The highest you're likely to achieve lately is ~5A-5.5A.  The new ones usually won't handle much over 6A. 

I "think" the XM-L2 T6 4C's you sell today can go close to 6.5A. Haven't tried a U4 1C yet - have you, or know what they max out at?

RMM
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I think that the 4C still might be from an older reel. All of the newer bins seem to be have higher forward voltages. 

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Tom E
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Ahhh - could be. I know Simon's and yours were high amps - maybe both from older reels. The way supplies go, seems like CREE releases different bins in batch's - never seems to be a good selection available at the same time. Still the T5 4C's were older batch's - still got one. The T6 4C's came later, but still could be older than these newer U2 neutrals and U3's/U4's.

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Tom E wrote:

Ahh – nicer than my old beat up frying pan Smile.

My latest FET+1 batch of drivers:

Beautiful reflow job!

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Tom E wrote:

Ahh – nicer than my old beat up frying pan Smile.

My latest FET+1 batch of drivers:

Any chance you could be talked into posting a picture of a board with the solder paste on it before the reflow? I’m starting to put together boards now and I’m still feeling out how much solder paste should actually be on there. Whatever you’re doing is the way I want to be doing it, it looks great.

Tom E
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The OP has a pic of what you want - I think. It's probably too much paste on the pads for the MCU. I've found I was over-doing it on those pads, and then you end up getting solder pooling on the top of the MCU pins, whcih seems it will make it difficult to program with the clip at times.

Also, I've learned if you use hot air like I do, you really want to pre-heat or heat the boards from below - the solder flows better. That's why I use a coffee mug warmer to sit the boards on when I use my hot air gun. The warmer provides bout a perfect 80-100C temp or so.

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Paste? Minimum, unless you have some strange paste. If you are doing many PCBs then its best to get a sheet that is cut out where the paste is to be applied. Often made from this high temperature material also used for tapes. Brown/copper nearly see throughm, sorry forgot the name but it’s an old NASA kind of stuff Smile You just wipe the pate over it and the paste gets only to places where it’s supposed to.

Same as soldering LEDs to MCPCBs minimum paste is enough Wink

Do a board and see, if it looks too much to you, then reduce. If you get bad connections due to lack of solder, then add more. In general minimum paste is fine for SMD soldering.

Personally I heat up a small piece of copper 40×20×3mm with a soldering iron, the driver or MCPCB is placed on the copper. Works even for soldering stacked copper discs or copper to brass pills.
The heat builds up from below unlike when using hot air that is more useful for patching up than reflowing.

Tom E
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Stencils - yes, some guys use them - I don't and others don't as well. With the rate of change these boards go thru, I didn't want to invest in stencils. I've had a high rate of success doing the solder paste by hand in my small batch runs (3-6 boards or so). I know stencils is better - faster and more accurate with the amt of solder.

RMM
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I've tried stencils on several different boards and for me I don't really like them--especially on boards like these that have fairly large pads and a small number of pads at that.  The setup, cleanup, and mess of using a stencil just isn't worth it IMO.  

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I use stencils almost exclusively and love how even and precise the amount of solder paste is with em.

Having to do more than one by hand is a PITA, in my opinion… Just built a panel of 20 with no stencils and about went bonkers!

RMM
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That's why I like this forum: you get a good debate from differing opinions.  Dale and I are friends, but anyone who has followed us long enough will notice that we often have opposite  opinions about a lot of different things. 

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FmC
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A question for the driver gurus;

I'm planning on using four XHP70's for my DIY comp build.

 If I were to piggyback 3 or 4 FET's on the same board (Older v1.0 type board, DPAK-2 FET), will the 13a have a strong enough drive signal to operate them all?

RMM
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FmC wrote:

A question for the driver gurus;

I'm planning on using four XHP70's for my DIY comp build.

 If I were to piggyback 3 or 4 FET's on the same board (Older v1.0 type board, DPAK-2 FET), will the 13a have a strong enough drive signal to operate them all?

Unless you're only planning on a 100% mode level with a big gate resistor, no.  We're already pushing the little attiny pretty hard switching one of them at the faster PWM levels.  You'll find that the attiny will glitch out big time trying to drive multiples in the middle levels, and even a single FET sometimes.

I think you could get away with a single FET for that build with a little creativity: use a small PFET to power the NFET gate directly from the 8V+ input.  It will load the attiny way less and will give the FET access to higher gate voltages, which will decrease the resistance of the FET.  You could also easily power more than one FET off the same attiny, if needed.  You would need to basically invert the PWM values, since the PFET turns on when the gate is pulled low.  

It is a crazy untested idea, but in theory it should work.  I don't think you need a dedicated gate driver IC since we're switching relatively slow. 

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FmC
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RMM wrote:

I think you could get away with a single FET for that build with a little creativity: use a small PFET to power the NFET gate directly from the 8V+ input.  It will load the attiny way less and will give the FET access to higher gate voltages, which will decrease the resistance of the FET.  You could also easily power more than one FET off the same attiny, if needed.  You would need to basically invert the PWM values, since the PFET turns on when the gate is pulled low. 

Thanks Richard.

I can see this quickly getting over my head.....

Using the method you described, are you suggesting that all four XHP70's could be powered by a single DPAK-2 FET?

So the flow for the PWM signal would be;

Attiny pwm---->PFET gate, PFET drain----->NFET gate.


 Can you point me in the direction of an appropriate PFET for this application?

Hmmm - I'm having difficulty understanding how I'd wire this up.

 

FmC
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Am I on the right track here? (I realize it's not the Zener schematic)

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