BLF Designed Budget Thrower GB Question

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bibihang
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This is my opinion in the other thread:

bibihang wrote:
I’ve discussed about making a BLF thrower with Rey before using the Trustfire X7. It has good price point (price is negotiable especially with high quantity), BIG reflector, taking multiple batteries and fairly good looking.

I know some people do not like multiple lithium batteries in series, and this is probably the Courui D01 is favoured. But the good thing about 3 batteries in series is that the current regulation is very good and constant, which mean that the maximum light output can be maintained until all the batteries are almost empty.

The X7 reflector is also slightly larger than the Courui D01 if I am not mistaken, meaning that it has the potential to hit 450kcd if not more. So with a good buck driver you can enjoy 450kcd as long as you want until the batteries are fully depleted without having the voltage sag.

The X7 can probably can be mounted on a rifle… well, I’m not a hunter so I’m not very sure on this one, but based on its body tube diameter I guess it can. The Courui D01 however is not quite possible.

Yes the Trustfire X7 is very big and long, but when it comes to a thrower (especially something which is capable of producing 350kcd and above) I don’t expect it to be pocketable, instead I want better current regulation and constant output. With a single 18650 supplying 6A to a single XP-L HI, how long would you expect it to stay there? A couple minutes maybe?

erik
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I would like a budget,max 30$, “pocket” trower, so one 18650 with big reflector and 3-4 modes

djozz
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Agree, keep it small please! There's only big throwers around and there's no reason at all for the performance a good thrower to be big (how much space does a single 18650 and a single led at 5A need at all?). You need the large reflector diameter and the rest can be made very compact and lightweight, even big fins are not needed for the performance, some modest finning is just fine.

cabfrank
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^ What he said !

crnkin
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gaston01 wrote:
crnkin wrote:
Pick a cd rating and go from there.

A c8 will do 150,000 cd for well under $30.

An stl-v6 or hd2010 will do near 300,000 cd for maybe $40

Jacobs a60 in stock for is extremely hard to mod, but mine does 220,000cd for maybe $20

Something in the middle maybe?

Chris

HD2010 with XPL or XML2 near 300 kcds ?? Shocked :~

Tom was getting near 250 kcd with xml2-u2, so should be possible to get closer to 300 kcd if you were willing to go xpg2 or xpe2 for a super thrower

I think what we all want is a single 18650 stl-v6. Do we just need to design it in CAD?

Shouldnt be too hard, but seems like the manufacturer is the problem?

Chris

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“I think what we all want is a single 18650 stl-v6. Do we just need to design it in CAD?”

.

“All” of us?

Sure, I would like to have one of those too, but I also want a BLFBIG-HEAD THROWER!

Not so Big that you would never use it… Maybe something around 70-90mm Head diameter, using 3 cells in series?

Yes – I think that you would have to design a “stl-v6“in CAD. – Please clue us in Smile

Thanks,
-Chuck

EDIT: You said: “Tom was getting near 250 kcd with xml2-u2, so should be possible to get closer to 300 kcd if you were willing to go xpg2 or xpe2 for a super thrower”

XP-E? – Very true, but that is just the sort of thing that is done, just for fun. – Very small Hot Spot, so better figure in the cost of the Binoculars you are going to need to see anything:-) – Not a very satisfying beam profile. – Great stuff in a P60 size though, I would imagine.

A larger emitter, “XP-L HI” will do the same thing, with a much larger, more useable Hot Spot

djozz
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chuckhov wrote:
XP-E? - Very true, but that is just the sort of thing that is done, just for fun. - Very small Hot Spot, so better figure in the cost of the Binoculars you are going to need to see anything:-) - Not a very satisfying beam profile. - Great stuff in a P60 size though, I would imagine. A larger emitter, "XP-L HI" will do the same thing, with a much larger, more useable Hot Spot

The XP-L Hi or XM-L2 will not do the same thing, they do not have anywhere close to the surface brightness of a XP-E2 at 2.5A, and so will throw considerably less. A XP-G2 comes closer already but will still not equal the XP-E2. If you manage to get the XP-G2 at its maximum brightness (which is not possible with a single Li-ion cell) then it has almost the surface brightness of the XP-E2. The XM-L2 and XP-L will blow their bond wires before the maximum die brightness is reached.

Manx
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Quote:
…With a single 18650 supplying 6A to a single XP-L HI, how long would you expect it to stay there? A couple minutes maybe?

That’s true Sad
I’d like a compact flashlight, but IMHO is useless if you can drive it only a few minutes at high and than the battery go “off work”…

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shrick
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I vote for single cell 26650. I believe its a good trade-off between performance, runtime & size. It also does not give the out of proportion look by putting a huge head on a 18650 tube size e.g. the Eagle Tac Turbo heads – it really just looks funny. Well, my opinion that is…

Should the preference be multi cell, I definitely prefer parallel please 3 or 4 × 18650. This allows for linear DD drivers on the common thrower type 3V LEDs (XM-L / XP-L / XP-G). Buck drivers are ‘complex’, expensive & has possible heat issues when driven hard. Parallel cells are obviously also good for voltage sag compared to single cell setups, but, my preference still is single cell.

Only reason I would go for multiple cells in series is to run XHP-35, that is 4 × 18650, direct driven.

shrick
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djozz wrote:

chuckhov wrote:
XP-E? – Very true, but that is just the sort of thing that is done, just for fun. – Very small Hot Spot, so better figure in the cost of the Binoculars you are going to need to see anything:-) – Not a very satisfying beam profile. – Great stuff in a P60 size though, I would imagine. A larger emitter, “XP-L HI” will do the same thing, with a much larger, more useable Hot Spot

The XP-L Hi or XM-L2 will not do the same thing, they do not have anywhere close to the surface brightness of a XP-E2 at 2.5A, and so will throw considerably less. A XP-G2 comes closer already but will still not equal the XP-E2. If you manage to get the XP-G2 at its maximum brightness (which is not possible with a single Li-ion cell) then it has almost the surface brightness of the XP-E2. The XM-L2 and XP-L will blow their bond wires before the maximum die brightness is reached.

I just want to clarify. Are you saying that XP-E2 at 2.5 amps will throw further in a big thrower head than any of the XP or XM leds @ max amps in single cell setup?

chuckhov
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“The XP-L Hi or XM-L2 will not do the same thing, they do not have anywhere close to the surface brightness of a XP-E2 at 2.5A, and so will throw considerably less.”

.

Correct! – Why did I not see this coming?

We are of course going to drive the XML size die at far More than 2.5A, and even if the surface brightness does not match the XP-E2 (that’s a given – it will not), is the beam from the XP-E2 really useful to you, or can you just say that you did throw it that far?

A Laser will throw even further, but even if it were NW/CW CCT, how satisfying would the beam profile be for you?

I for one, want to see something besides just a little spot lit up. – A XP-E2 in a 70mm reflector will be a Pencil Beam, not satisfying to most people.

Thanks for your reply,
-Chuck

shrick
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I agree a pencil beam is not practical, but, its still interesting – I was not aware that a XP-E2 will out throw e.g. a XP-L V6. And, for that matter, to rephrase, I was not aware that a dedomed XP-E2 at 2.5 amps will out throw a XP-L Hi V3 at max single cell amps… hard to believe Smile

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crnkin wrote:
gaston01 wrote:
crnkin wrote:
Pick a cd rating and go from there.

A c8 will do 150,000 cd for well under $30.

An stl-v6 or hd2010 will do near 300,000 cd for maybe $40

Jacobs a60 in stock for is extremely hard to mod, but mine does 220,000cd for maybe $20

Something in the middle maybe?

Chris

HD2010 with XPL or XML2 near 300 kcds ?? Shocked :~

Tom was getting near 250 kcd with xml2-u2, so should be possible to get closer to 300 kcd if you were willing to go xpg2 or xpe2 for a super thrower

I think what we all want is a single 18650 stl-v6. Do we just need to design it in CAD?

Shouldnt be too hard, but seems like the manufacturer is the problem?

Chris

Hi
Yes 250 kcd is ok with xml2, my HD2010 also is in ~250 kcd but never try a xpg2 or xpe…

My best compact thrower now is a small sun ZY-T13 head single 18650 with xml2 is in 265kcd Smile

Now I’m finishing a mod with one Small sun ZY-T08, buck driver, xpg2 s4 at 5.5A we’ll see what the result :~

Sorry for my bad English…

chouster
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I have a BLF X6 with dedomed XP-E2 running at about 2A. It’s one of my favorite lights, because it really throws and is small enough for me to call it pocketable. Maybe my Yezl Y3 with XP-L HI running at 5A (LD-1) reaches a little further, but it’s not what I call a pocket-thrower. That beeing said, if you carry these throwy type of lights you’ll always want to bring a floody type of light along. For me this X6 with XP-E2 dedomed and a X6 triple XP-L or triple Nichia is just about the perfect combo. And these X6’s are simply beautiful lights if you ask me.

JasonJ
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I’m with Chuck in a big head, multiple 18650 cell thrower.

I think there are two tracks here.. those that want the pocket thrower, single cell light; and those like Chuck and I who want a pre-modded Courui D01 style light with a huge reflector and multiple cells.

We, my friends, seem to be at an impasse.

downlinx
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I was thinking about it last night, and I don’t mind what it is, I will still buy it.

BLF Community Battery Pull Thread http://budgetlightforum.com/node/32720

JasonJ
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downlinx wrote:
I was thinking about it last night, and I don’t mind what it is, I will still buy it.

Addict.

j/k :bigsmile:

bugsy
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New Convoy L2 has 60mm reflector, nice Convoy quality, and Convoy stuff is usually available in host form.

We just need someone who would be willing to use the BLF FET driver and XP-L HI to assemble a Group Buy for us.

djozz
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So then there is need for two BLF throwers, as far apart as something called 'thrower' can be Smile , so that not a lame compromise is achieved but two extreme performing lights in their own class.

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I would love a factory modded Courui D01 and the small pocketable one as discussed on the other thread as well. I have a c8 that scratches the single cell itch but nothing like the big head throwers.

bibihang
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Let me know about the final design and the price when you guys are done… LOL!

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If we want high numbers on a buy it has to be at the cheaper end of the market like the Courui D01. I am sure the Convoy L2 is excellent but you will lose at least 100 buyers because of the extra cash. If you look at the history of group buys the budget ones often massively outsell the mid range models. Personally I buy anything that you guys organize that is under $10, almost everything that is under $20 dollars. Once it gets past $25 I start to lose interest rapidly. I do after all have plenty of quality lights already. I doubt I would ever spend over $30 and at that end of the market its retail main branded equivalent would have to be selling for close to $100.

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djozz wrote:

So then there is need for two BLF throwers, as far apart as something called ‘thrower’ can be Smile , so that not a lame compromise is achieved but two extreme performing lights in their own class.


Well, there is already a “C8” and a “mini C8” and krono is currently running the X6-SE v2 group buy, where they are introducing a “mini X6” version, and calling it a K6. So, in the same vein, it might be cool to do a Courui D01 (fully modded) and a “mini D01” that is identical in design, but runs on 3P 14500 or 10440 cells, and is that much smaller in size (including the reflector). I know to some people it might sound lame to run 3P 10440, but in order to make the light scale to size, you need shorter cells, and even a single 18500 is less powerful than 3P 10440 high current cells such as Efest Purple. If we make it 3P 14500, then people could use a single 26500 in it if they wanted to.

I don’t want any series-cell lights for a couple reasons. One: series is more dangerous than parallel. Perfect, or at least near perfect cell matching is a must. Two: Buck drivers are less efficient than linear drivers. Three: Buck drivers usually are not capable of max amps, unless you get a much larger and/or more expensive buck driver.

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chuckhov
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djozz wrote:

So then there is need for two BLF throwers, as far apart as something called ‘thrower’ can be Smile , so that not a lame compromise is achieved but two extreme performing lights in their own class.

.

YES! – Two is always better than one, and then we can pick and choose:-)

Thank you, djozz!
-Chuck

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JasonJ wrote:
I’m with Chuck in a big head, multiple 18650 cell thrower.

I think there are two tracks here.. those that want the pocket thrower, single cell light; and those like Chuck and I who want a pre-modded Courui D01 style light with a huge reflector and multiple cells.

We, my friends, seem to be at an impasse.


.

Jason,

I see no harm in Wanting and Building Both, as you know that is where the road will lead all true Flashaholics Smile

Thanks!
-Chuck

djozz
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David, the C8, mini C8 and X6 are not the compact lightweight thrower I was describing, the idea is a full 50-60mm reflector with a compact body. Many don't like that shape, but that's what a compact lightweight reflector thrower is. That said, within the requirements I'm sure it can be made look cool.

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djozz wrote:

David, the C8, mini C8 and X6 are not the compact lightweight thrower I was describing, the idea is a full 50-60mm reflector with a compact body. Many don’t like that shape, but that’s what a compact lightweight reflector thrower is. That said, within the requirements I’m sure it can be made look cool.


Sorry, djozz, I didn’t mean we should make any of those. I was saying that those are current examples of “large and small” flashlight pairs, and that if we did the same thing with a Courui D01 (or any other large thrower) by making a “mini D01” version, that would be cool with me. I don’t think a Huge reflector on small tube would look good or be practical. But maybe, if it had a 26650 sized tube, it wouldn’t look so disproportionate.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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DavidEF wrote:
I don’t think a Huge reflector on small tube would look good or be practical. But maybe, if it had a 26650 sized tube, it wouldn’t look so disproportionate.

What about even a 32650 sized tube that may could also accept a carrier with three 14500’s? That may even make it appear more proportional.

Aspiring Fhashlightaholic!

tenohfive
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presterjohn wrote:
Once it gets past $25 I start to lose interest rapidly. I do after all have plenty of quality lights already.

Whereas I don’t, and one of the reasons this appeals is the potential for a quality light but at a fraction of the price. It’s that bang for buck ideal that appeals to me – knowing I’m getting something that I’d pay a fortune for elsewhere. Not just something that fits a niche at a good price.

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tenohfive wrote:
presterjohn wrote:
Once it gets past $25 I start to lose interest rapidly. I do after all have plenty of quality lights already.

Whereas I don’t, and one of the reasons this appeals is the potential for a quality light but at a fraction of the price. It’s that bang for buck ideal that appeals to me – knowing I’m getting something that I’d pay a fortune for elsewhere. Not just something that fits a niche at a good price.

.

+1

What I am really looking for, is a modded Courui D01, for maybe $60 – It will take a lot to bring it up to our standards – But something that is actually “worth” $150, if you tried to buy it even in a Group Buy.

http://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_85126.html

That’s a pretty tall order and it’s not going to be done for $30.

On the other hand, a $30 “Mini-Thrower” would be something that I would buy too. – Single cell, maybe a 50mm head?

Come on , Guys… I have no modding skills, and every time I look at that link that I posted, I get antsy. – But I know that the stock version could never please me.

Who is willing to step up to the plate and do the BLF SE Group Buy for us?

Thank you,
-Chuck

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