Review: Kaidomain KD C12 XPL HI

Always had a soft spot for the C12 and then they went to s__t. Good to see the resurgence with even a better pill. Thank you for doing this review thread. :)

Glad you appreciated it. It’s a good torch, not quite the same performance of a similarly spec’d C8. The only difference being the driver and host design. It would be considered one of the best C12 torches available. Although they’ve been around for years, it’s still a good choice for the budget minded.

I have a couple of C12s and they worked well for me. Love the better heatsinking potential over that of a C8. I think this particular reflector in your C12 isn’t very suitable for the XPL-HI - the LED sits too far down below the reflector opening and quite a bit of the light never hit the reflector.

Very nice review. Maybe I am wrong but I get the feeling that you have a lot of sympathy for the C12, but it ultimately loses the battle on account of the hard data.
Talking about data: adding the temperature might offer a new perspective for those who are seeking a host that keeps his head cool.

Thanks for the review!

-Chuck

Another great review Rolz, thank you!

It surprises me that the output difference between the C8 and the C12 can be that much. I mean they both have the same driving current, tested with the same sets of batteries, same emitter, same reflector diameter and textures - basically you just interchanged the reflector between them while doing the comparisons, right? And I always thought that the C12 is exactly the C8 only with more fins… so what am I missing here?

Don’t they use different ‘make’ drivers?

I was thinking that I might want a C12, but after seeing this I’m leaning towards the C8.

Sort it out for me boys… I got more time than money :frowning:

Thanks,
-Chuck

Just throwing this out there as a possibility. The C12 could be measuring not as good due to the copper base, brass pill, excellent heat sinking, and not enough current to get the emitter up to a temp it is happiest at.

Cooler is better for longevity, but some heat is needed for best performance.

The C12 is meant to be hot rodded. It is the one you get (over the C8) if you want to have some fun and go DD.

Awesome. Thank you. Think I’ll go order me a c8 now haha

What? Sorry I’m really confused…

EDIT: I also believe that the copper base is not anything like DTP, so the heat dissipation could be still quite poor regardless if the substrate is made of copper or aluminium.

I expected that the C12 would score light results on par with the C8, but it came up short. The C8 is clearly a better performer.

The OP reflector supplied with the torch worked ok. In my results I also included a table where I list the figures for a SMO reflector for the C12. I replaced the supplied OP reflector with a SMO from another C12 I have (XML2) but found it didn’t fit perfectly. The reflector wasn’t a tight fit. Good enough to get decent results but not ideal. I’m sure the KD model with a SMO would overcome this issue.

bibihang wrote:

What? Sorry I’m really confused…

EDIT: I also believe that the copper base is not anything like DTP, so the heat dissipation could be still quite poor regardless if the substrate is made of copper or aluminium.

Give the following djozz thread a read (link in picture). The copper base with dialetic layer does pretty darn good in that testing.

With that being said, I could be completely wrong about it being a possibility.

Both torches had a 3A driver althouh not the same one. I did test out different reflectors to assess the impact it had on the LUX readings. As expected a SMO reflector leads to a higher LUX figure. The SMO cleans up the beam which removes rings in the C8. I wasn’t able to work out why the overall brightness was lower on the C12. I tried multiple batteries too. The sample C12 model I had doesn’t produce the brightness levels I’d expect of XPL-HI. I also found in my results that the C12 light output over time wasn’t quite as I expected. I saw results where as time passed the LUX readings increased. Of the two drivers I found that the KD V2 was the better driver.

Rolz,

First off, Great review!

I have one of the older C12’s with an XPL from Aliexpress when they first came out and it is a Smooth reflector, so when this XPL-HI version came out, I jumped on it and figured why not get the OP reflector and then could swap them back and forth. Annnnd, NO, will not work properly, as they are just that little bit different, same with the pill threading.

Anyway, the pill threading should be the same on your 2 lights from KD. So could you swap the pills on the C8 and C12 and see what results you get then?
Not full blown graphs, just Lux would be interesting.
I am confused how the output can go down and then come back up on the C12, never saw that happen before but there is a first time for everything.
Maybe the thermal paste is changing properties based on heat?
My original C12 actually will put out 3.58 amps on an LG HE2 so it is brighter for sure on white walls then the new XPL HI and the throw is right there with it but with more spill and bigger hotspot (as expected).
Tint is better as well on orig XPL.

Overall the XPL Hi is a disappointment to me. Was expecting way better throw. YMMV.
It may just need a re designed reflector to show off it’s stuff.
Thanks!
Keith

Keith,

Thanks for your comments.

1. could you swap the pills on the C8 and C12 and see what results you get then? -> Will aim to do so tonight and post my thoughts/observations
2. I am confused how the output can go down and then come back up on the C12 -> I was surprised by this result. I ran multiple tests using different batteries and found similar results. My immediate thought is that it’s driver related. The C8 and C12 have the same LED, assume similar wire size to LED, and assume similar switch resistance. I expected that the output initially would be similar and that the better cooling efficiency of the C12 would come into play in a 10 minute test. The C8 was hot after 10 minutes, whereas the C12 wasn’t too hot to hold, it was very warm.
3. My original C12 actually will put out 3.58 amps on an LG HE2 so it is brighter for sure on white walls then the new XPL HI and the throw is right there with it but with more spill and bigger hotspot (as expected). I have a C12 XML L2 which performs well. I’ve not checked the tailcap current, but may do so tonight and include some numbers as a comparison.
4. Overall the XPL Hi is a disappointment to me. -> The C8 with a XPL - HI performed very well. The KD V2 driver provided very good results. I’ve a C8 (XML U2) and a C12 (C12 XML L2) which I can compare against. Again I’ll do some more general tests as a comparison. The hot spot on the XPL-HI is clearly smaller in size.

I believe a XPL-HI in a C12 host with a more effective driver would be an excellent throwing torch for it’s size. If I had to re-design the KD C12 purely based on my findings I would swap the driver. The inability to take non protected cells without a spacer is bit annoying. I may find that if I can manage to swap over the pills as per the dot point 1 above I’ll have an excellent torch.

All thanks for the followup discussion. The response to the review has been very pleasing for me. I’m new to producing and publishing reviews on the web and have found it to be an interesting experience. It does take much time, more than I expected. I try and improve the content and presentation each time to make it more interesting to all. I’m thinking of ideas on ways of assessing the total light output. I don’t have a sphere but I’ll work something out.

I will produce more in future, with hopefully new models. If you know of areas that I should improve please PM me, I always appreciate all feedback, good or bad. Thanks Again :slight_smile:

“I’m thinking of ideas on ways of assessing the total light output. ”

.

A ceiling bounce and a light meter will do very well here.

Thanks,
-Chuck

Chuck thanks it helps me confirm my thoughts. I have a room where I can do so and take a baseline for a known torch. I was considering stating “light units” as the measure for comparison.

Hi Rolz,

You just need to be sure that everything is in the same place each time, and then it doesn’t really matter what you call it, because it’s all relative.

Just go down to the middle of the page here and see how Selfbuilt does his:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?381868 “Ceiling Bounce Max Output” or whatever…

Hey! - I really am enjoying your reviews! - Keep up the good work!

Thanks!
-Chuck