As an aside, Ive been running a pair of 100 watt HID’s in my pickup truck driving lights (Hella Ralley 4000 with 9” reflectors) for nearly 4 years without incident. They have many hours of sustained use in a high vibration environment, which would kill most Chinese HID systems. This particular design is highly touted on 4x4 forums and has given others good results as well. Your thread reminded me of another pair of Hella 4000’s I picked up and forgot about, so I just ordered another 100W HID kit to convert them as well. They provide around 9000 lumens each, have ceramic mounting bases and very high quality ballasts that dont flicker and always ignite. Ive tested mine down to –4 F. Im told that the ceramic base 70 watt HID bulb can be used with the 100 watt ballast for higher surface brightness in a smaller envelope. This should translate to a more concentrated beam in your deep reflector for longer range but with less total lumens. Perhaps the best part is that the kit is only $70 for a pair of them (with free shipping). You could use your spare HID and convert a Coleman spotlight like the one I did a while back. Then you could have a killer thrower with your project and a cheap medium thrower for your car that would still slaughter anything LED. I went with 4300k (appears to be about 1A Cree tint) for max lumens and H1 bases to match the Hella 4000’s and the Coleman spotlight. 100 watt HID sales link (only 2 days left) Id stay away from the other Chinese 100 watt versions because they have been notorious to failure and being underpowered. The link does a good job of explaining the differences in the electronics. You might also ask about higher wattage ballasts and 70 watt blubs… if you’re interested.
I think ma-sha1 had this reflector custom made so I'm not sure how to explain to Opti-forms which reflector it is so that they can give me its specs. I'll see if I can get in contact with ma-sha and see if he still has them available somewhere. He hasn't been on this forum is 6 week though...
That cut away of the maxabeam is a very useful pic. THanks for that! Maybe I can steal some of Peak Beams trade secrets
. I have figured out in my mind how I intend to mount the lamp. Should be easy. It's figuring out how to hold the reflector and the front lens to the pot securely without damaging either one, while also keeping it pretty that's got me stomped at the moment. Can't seem to find the type material I need in the stores no where.
And yes I'm aware of the danger of short arc lamps. I had highly considered using a mercury short arc lamp because of its higher efficiency than Xenon but the massive amounts of UV rays it produces is what led me to ditch that idea. The center glass in the window I'm using, I'm sure, blocks UV rays as it was removed from a UHP lamp. But the outer polycarbonate is what I'm not sure about. It may allow free passage of all the UV rays, and if so, it would be quite a bad idea to use a Mercury lamp. Also apart from not knowing exactly which bulb I want to go with, one of the reason why I haven't ordered the bulb just yet is that I don't have all the required safety gear to handle a one of these lamps, let alone bench test it.
I would love to run some auxillary lights on my car but I don't really have a great way of mounting them. My HID projector retrofit also puts out a ton of light as it is so I'm pretty much satisfied with my headlights ATM.
I do intend to mod a flashlight but this project is gonna suck up all my money for now LOL. My FF4 and TN32 will have to do for the time being.
Is there a part number on the reflector lip base or side? It might be very small, ink jetted, laser etched or engraved.
I was thinking that the 100 W HID I linked might be a good place to start for a minimal investment with your light source to see how well your reflector worked. At 9000 lumens, its probably far more efficient than a short arc and could be ran off a 12 volt cell (car battery or li-ion remote pack). Also a lot safer than arc laps. More isnt always better when you’re trying to concentrate the beam.
Halogen lamp housings are all supposed to be sold with a quartz lens to arrest UV. Im not sure if a quartz lens would provide a sufficient filter for mercury arc, but it might be worth investigating. Youd have to find the amount of UV produced at peak luminous flux and calculate the amount of concentration culminated through the reflector… more fun (or headaches) depending on your point of view.
A lot of people use JB weld epoxy in their builds because its nearly as tough as steel and can be sanded. They also have a putty version that can be rolled like clay before forming.
I do have to wonder how your reflector might work with a Cree XHP-35 HP. Sure, it wont walk the walk like HID, but it might be pretty darn efficient for a mega LED thrower. In fact, Im more interested in that potential than HID. 
When you start to add the cost of parts and the intricacies of a proven, evolved, well engineered short arc searchlight - good second hand units are a real bargain if you have a use for such a thing. I for one was never impressed with the maxabeam because it seemed under-powered and had an awful beam pattern when zoomed out. They always reminded me of a maglite beam, which was the main reason I gave up the 10x maxabeam project. The VSS3 adds a variable reflector warping system, which automatically maintains an optimal reflector parabola as the bulb moves in and out of the reflector on a motorized rack and pinion system… which is why the beam pattern is always nearly perfect at any zoom setting. No maglite/maxabeam/nightsun beam pattern ugliness in the VSS3! :bigsmile:
Just cruising the adds, I spotted this old 60” monstrosity. Id guess it to be a GE or Sperry, but hard to tell the condition. Pics look good and it appears complete. It might be a real bargain for the asking price and probably negotiable. If it were mine, Id consider a 5-20 kW xenon arc donor conversion from a movie projector or lab equippement.
Don’t worry about Mercury lamps and UV with a Polycarbonate lens. It will absorb all the dangerous short and medium wave UV, no matter what brand it is. A slight amount of UVA in the upper spectrum will pass, but you get a lot more of that from the sun anyway. You can google polycarbonate uv transmission and look at graphs. You will see that Polycarbonate block more UV than a ordinary glass or borosilicate lens that usually is used on short arc lights.
When that is said, you may not have UV resistant polycarbonate. It will block the same rays, but the plastic will yellow and deteriorate over time. No huge deal though, as you can get a new sheet for like $15-20. And for the record, Xenon also produce a lot of UV, so you won’t avoid that potential issue completely.
As for installing the reflector, feel free to do what I did. Cut a hole in a thick aluminum sheet, chamfer it so it fits the reflector profile, and glue it on with high temp RTV silicone. Then you atleast have a solid piece of metal you can attach to the housing. Silicone was recommended to me by Phoenix Electroformed. It has a slight give so you don’t risk deformation due to thermal expansion. I’m actually about to install a new reflector as we speak and I can send you some pics when I’m done.
There are very few arc lamp builds in BLF, subscribed!
I don't see a part number anywhere on this reflector. The only symbols on it are a cresent moon shape, and the symbols AQ which tells what type of coating it has. Haven't had a chance to send ma-sha and email yet but Ill get to it soon.
Being that I also modify headlights I have quite a few automotive style 35watt HID bulbs laying around. I decided to throw one in and see what kind of results I got from it as you'll see below.
I would love to see how this reflector would perform with one of the high powered LED's myself. Unfortunately I don't have any laying around to test it with though. Hmm you got me thinking maybe I ought to go buy a cheap XML flashlight and strip it down and see what kind of results I get before installing the arc bulb...
Great info on the UV rays Polari. Thanks a lot! I didn't realize a polycarbonate lens would block most of the dangerous UV rays. I guess polycarbonate lens are perfect for my application then. Not sure how resistant it is to UV either but being that the light probably wont to used very often, hopefully I wont have any issues with it yellowing. I also see there is a lot more research on UV rays , and polycarbonate lens I probably need to be doing LOL! All this is uncharted territory for me. Got a lot more research and learning to do before even placing an order for the bulb or ballast. Don't need any accidents.
The way you described how you mounted your reflector to the pot is exactly how I was intending to mount mine. The previous owner had already used some type of high temp muffler glue to secure a small piece of aluminum to the reflector. I guess I can just cut a larger piece of aluminum to fit as a lip on this smaller piece and then use this larger piece to mount the reflector to the pot. Probably have most of the supplies already here to mount it with.
The depth of this reflector has had me a little worried since the day I bought it. Probably about the deepest reflector I've ever seen, and that had me seriously questioning how effective it would be at focusing the beam into a spot as tight as I was hoping to get. Flashpilot raised the issue again and so it sparked my curiosity even more, so even though I was super tired from work this evening I had to go test out this reflector with one of my automotive HID bulbs.
With me I took a Morimoto(aftermarket) 35watt H1 HID bulb powered by a Toyota Denso 35watt ballast, FF4 65watt, my TN32, Extech LT300 light meter, and a laser distance measurer. According to my laser distance measurer I was 28.3 meters (92.8 feet) away from the wall I used for my beam shots. I held the HID light inside the reflector by hand since i had no way of mounting it yet and tried my best to keep the beam focused on the light meter. I probably never got it perfectly focused so the number I got from my lux meter are probably very low. On top of this my lux meter has consistently read lower than many of the other guys on this forum who have the same lights as me, so the actual lux of all the lights tested are probably quite a bit higher than what I tested them at. Any way here are the numbers I got.
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Distance the lux is measured at is 28.3 meters.
Formula used to calculate lux at 1 meter is ...... (distance^2)xlux=lux at 1 meter.
Lux for the 3 lights is listed below:
TN32 on turbo =193 lux @28.3meters = 154,571.77 lux/1meter
FF4S on 65watts =353lux @28.3meters = 282,714.17 lux/1meter
35watt automotive HID =2998lux @28.3meters = 2,401,068.22 lux/1meter
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Beam Shots. Camera was set to manual and all the setting remained the same.
TN32
FF4S
35watt HID in reflector
The wire on the side of the bulb is causing a major shadow there but overall the beam profile is very nice. Seems like it is very much capable of tightly focusing the light produced by a short arc bulb. And the center of the beam is so intense it actually appear to be rivaling my Maxabeam LOL! I'm highly satisfied with the performance of this reflector! Never seen anyone get 2.4 million lux from a 35watt automotive HID bulb LOL!
That’s a good start, with a stock pot and a shiny funnel!
Okay, so the ultimate arc recipe goes:
- 8 quarts sunlight
- 2 dozen lithium batteries (chopped)
- 1 cup LED emitters (dedomed)
- 18 linear inches 3/4” (OD) copper pipe (grated)
- Bring sunlight to a rolling boil
- Add lithium and LED’s
- Boil until mixture thickens
- Line funnel with cheesecloth and strain. Discard solids
- Season with copper to taste
Seriously though, can’t wait to see what you make
It looks like you’ve got a winner! That must be quite a relief. Just imagine what it would do with the 100W HID (3500 lumens vs 9000). If the wire shadow becomes an issue in your final build, you can index it to the bottom and it will go mostly unnoticeable as you shine it on targets. Check My 100W HID beam shots for reference.
Did you receive my emailed with the VSS3 manuals?
Now that’s a hotspot! Like, literally a hot spot 
[quote=FlashPilot] It looks like you've got a winner! That must be quite a relief. Just imagine what it would do with the 100W HID (3500 lumens vs 9000). If the wire shadow becomes an issue in your final build, you can index it to the bottom and it will go mostly unnoticeable as you shine it on targets. Check "My 100W HID":https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/4293 beam shots for reference. Did you receive my emailed with the VSS3 manuals? [/quote] I did get your email. Thanks so much for sending them. I sent you a pm about it.
After I looked over the link Polari sent me I'm thinking about going with their 500watt ballast. Osrams 500watt Xenon short arc bulbs are about 13000 lumens so they would beat a 100 watt Metal Halide in brightness and intensity!
Has anybody tested the results of having the wire on the side of bulb follow the bulb envelope(like automotive HID) vs running along the glass window and down the side of reflector like the maxabeam? I wonder which way would create a bigger shadow.
I never got your PM reply. Anyways, Im glad you received the manuals. Now the fun begins!
@Polari - can you share your link with us? Im starting to get the itch for another large short arc. :bigsmile:
Sure, it’s http://www.proteus-electric.com/ But I can’t guarantee you anything. Have neither tried any of the products or bought from them. But it seems legit and I did get a quote from them. You will also find more of the same style PSU’s on Aliexpress.
I sent them an email about their 500 watt ballast. If anyone is interested I'll post their reply. If the price is not too high I might take a chance and order from them. Im willing to be a guinea pig
Thanks guys. It all looks doable. This isnt CPF, so there’s nothing wrong with keeping everyone in the loop with prices and links.
Well they got back with me pretty quickly.
IMO, the prices seem quite high for Chinese no name brand electronics. I was also surprised that they offered a non PFC PSU at that power level. That would speak “bottom shelf” in the world of AC to DC conversion LED drivers. All the name brand ones I have are PFC equipped and always run at 99-100% power factor when I test them. A quick search for “Proteus Electric” Ltd. only turned up advertisements. I stopped digging after the second page. There’s no telling what you might get without several reputable reviews from others. I went with the 100W HID set (I mentioned earlier) based upon the several reviews of others who beat the living hell out of them off-road without incurring any failures.
An option: if you search ebay for xenon-arc, there is always a decent supply of unused, new old stock (NOS), high output name brand xenon arc bulbs, etc., for pennies on the dollar. Pick a bulb and search by part number to find its specs and requirements for an ignitor & PSU. Then purchase those parts separately on ebay if you cant find them together. Stay away from used tubes and any that don’t come in the original boxes. They have a service life typically counted by an hour meter (hobbs meter) on the head unit and don’t like being touched by bare hands. Service life effects both luminosity and the integrity of the envelope (you don’t want it to explode while you’re anywhere near it and should change it out before max service life has been reached). You’ll also need to inspect the anode and cathode for damage and excessive wear periodically, but should see good service life in the name brand sets if powered to spec.
Are you sure you want to limit your light to operation while plugged into an extension cord? I think you’ll become bored with it very quickly, regardless of its range/output. For those who have seen my VSS3 on the boat while resting on anchor, the wow factor lasts for all of about 2 minutes. And half of that was while playing with the remote focus and pan/tilt system. While on the move through the water, the fascination was limitless, with lots of hoots and hollers from everyone. Several crazy bicyclists have built mega powered HID lighting systems for their bikes. Maybe check out some of those threads as well.
A stationary mega thrower is similar to viewing one of the 800 million candlepower Sperry carbon arcs at the county fair. Its interesting for all of about 5 minutes, while the operator is there to explain its operation and maintenance pitfalls. Now if they’d fire that thing up and throw a couple of rednecks (like me) into the back of the truck and take it for a long high speed drive while I aimed it, that just might be something Id write home to BLF about. :bigsmile:
Just my 0.02… and probably worth just as much.
I have a irrelevant question. It is illegal to point our high powered laser pointer to the sky because it may possibly blind a pilot, but why these 800 million candlepower monsters are allowed to shoot upward in the night sky at the country fair?
Beyond that, there are still many gray areas and much speculation. Don’t aim your lights/lasers at aircraft and stay out of jail… that includes moderately powered flashlights.