Nichia 219C, testing a 5000K 83CRI emitter, comparing with a XP-G2 S4 2B and other leds

I received my 219c's from Cutter today. They were very well packed, but I was very disappointed that they were not on Noctigons as the product page indicated. The Page clearly shows them on 20mm Noctigons and says mounted on 20mm base. It does not say an aluminum base. I would prefer them to not be on any base if not on a Noctigon. Now I have to buy some DTP bases and subject the emitters to reflow heat 2 more times.

What I got:

Hmm yeah I definitely thought they came on Noctigons. I almost ordered some 4000k from them because I figured the Noctigons would make the cost worth it.

That is a shame. There is no way they are going to work on more current than we can get through an XM-L2, without direct thermal.

Oh noooo. for some reason I thought these were bare. That is a really, really deceptive listing. Cutter has a presence here and posts - can't find the name, but if you find it, maybe you can pm. Really weird they don't offer them bare. I know their site is many times wayyy out of sync with what they really have. I think Mrs.DNF told me.

Before you panic, check those stars. Cutter has their own DTP mcpcb’s and they are no different from Noctigon or MaxToch or SinkPAD. See if you can detect the thermal pad beside the emitter and touch it with one probe while contacting the base with the other, checking for continuity. My bet is your DMM will beep at you and all will be well with the world. :wink:

welight is the Cutter contact here. I wonder when you ordered them ImA4Wheelr whether welight was on holidays (he still is) and there is a mistake? I picked up six from there today myself along with the Noctigons separately.

I believe their DTP board is called T-pad.

I haven't run across an aluminum DTP that worked nearly as good as a copper DTP yet. None the less, these don't appear to be DTP. I don't want to do any testing that will mar them in case I end up returning them. They have no markings and the thermal traces indicate non-DTP. I could not get continuity on any of the thermal pad solder blobs, but I didn't try to clean and scrap them to make sure flux coating was not interfering.

I imagine the ad or lack of Noctigons is just a mistake. I emailed Cutter last night. I just PM'd welight.

I would not bet on a DTP board either, but can not rule it out from the picture. Let's wait what welight says about this.

Cutter are usually fairly forthright with their sales, so I’d give them the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise. For reference the Tpad DTP stars look like so: 14mm 20mm
Say… would you be interested in parting ways with 1 or 2 of those 4000k 219Cs at all?

They did the same thing with an XP-G2 here: http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1954. Shows the Noctigon, but says "20mm Round Shaped Metal Core PCB", which means it's a MCPCB, that's it. The link to the MCPCB is broken as well. It's not looking good.

It's a shame because they got them bare obviously because MRsDNF bought them that way, just no way to buy them on the site.

I left a query on their site about it - no response yet.

Well it’s Sunday night here and the first of the posts on the issue by ImA4Wheelr was on Friday night (Melbourne time) so we shall see soon. It’ll be Monday midnight in a minute. TBH, I’d prefer them bare as Noctigons don’t come in anything smaller than 16mm.

Just to clear things up I bought six leds and six stars, both separately. I never ordered anything by part number.

There wouldn’t be continuity on any of the solder pads, as those are isolated by the masking… by necessity of course.

Try placing your probe right at the base of the emitter where it solders to the star, usually there’s a bit of a shine right there where the solder is. Or you can simply press the probe through the mask onto the trace coming away from the thermal pad. (scratch it slightly, in other words, to get contact through the masking to the trace underneath.)

I’d put it on a hot plate and pull the emitter, easy enough then to find out if it’s DTP or not.

Look at the information from SinkPAD on their DTP Al boards compared to the DTP Cu boards, the copper ones are much more efficient. The Al ones are fine if you’re not pushing to max levels, but the copper ones can’t be beat up on the top end.

Guys

The Alum boards are not DTP, we have Tpad due in 3 weeks in XP footprint but these are not and were shipped by mistake, so we will rectify this, if you order on Noctigan boards, thats what you will get

I am currently in the UK so my answers may be delayed

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark - thanks for posting!

Just to clarify for me and to be honest, the main thing is the pictures on your website for the 219C product show a LED on a Noctigon - I really didn't expect a Noctigon to come with it for that price - price was too low. I made a mistake in thinking it was a bare LED, not mounted - missed the note it was mounted on a 20mm star.

Still waiting the hear back for Cutter or welight. I trust that he will straighten this matter out, but the lack of response is starting to get me concerned.

The HI versions just have a very thin flat layer of silicon over the die. I’ve wondered if instead of a complete dedome just use a centering disc as a jig to get an even thickness slice and make the cut submerged in an alcohol lubricant bath the make it as clean and smooth as possible.

Out of all the emitter’s I have shaved down, the 219c was the hardest, literally, it need’s a Rockwell hardness number! But after initially shaving the biggest part of the top off I pressed down harder on the washer I was using and shaved almost a perfect surface and a less than paper thin shave off it that came out with just light wet sanding and then a toothpaste polishing! I have tried synthetic Mobil 1 oil to liquid soap as lubricants, it helps out, especially on the second cut or shave! You got to keep the angle of the blade slightly raised towards the rear to act as a scissor action against the washer or guide, and the tighter the I.D. to dome O.D. the better, less pressure pushing on the dome, slow and easy on the cut, let the blade do the work. I’m sure there are other way’s and of course Better way’s, but this works for me, and I do it a lot, so take it for what it’s worth, .0002cents! :bigsmile:

Heading back home tomorrow so will resolve this as soon as I land

Cheers

Mark