Convoy L6... XHP70 Beast!

Count me In. The Spec op’s Night Destroyer. Too Much? I don’t have any Tall lights with the batteries in series. I think it looks great.

The price on this one is going to be standard Convoy… meaning you’ll wonder how you got so much quality for so little money. I don’t want to commit to an exact price but Simon’s estimate, believe it or not is under $60. In my opinion that is a steal.

Thank you for mentioning that about the cooling fins. It came up in the L2 thread and the X6 hunter was used as the example. No doubt the X6 has good heat dissipation but I think the L6 is a much better looking light. Just my opinion of course but I really like the design. Personally I think when you go too far with cooling fins you detract from the aesthetic value but opinions vary.

Edit: Simon will also be extending the 15% BLF family discount to this to this beauty so you can take that off the top. :beer:

Sure is. :slight_smile:

Hmm, what am I missing?

The XHP-70 is, essentially, 4 XM-L2 dies on one substrate, so, at 5 Amps, each one would be getting 1.25A, right? According to everything we already know, an XM-L2 at 1.25A is good for about 550 emitter lumens, so 4 of these at that level would be good for about 2200 lumens before losses. Or maybe 1800 out the front. Wouldn’t that be about right? If so, that would be somewhat disappointing.

My Intimidator is making some 5700 lumens from the High CRI XHP-70 (supposedly 96 CRI) and I think it’s doing in the 12A range. The way this one is set up it’s kind of difficult to measure, but I’ll give it a go and see if I can get an emitter amperage reading from up top. The big Illuminations Machines LUM 5-90 works splendidly in this big light, so I can positively say the diamond pattern works beautifully with the quad die emitter.

I also know from prior experience that the XHP-70 will make a lot of heat (I had an XHP-70 in the EE X6 doing 5500 lumens, heat IS an issue!), the more heat sink mass and cooling fins the merrier. I’m wondering why there is such an air gap between the head and reflector down low, close to the emitter shelf? Couldn’t this be adjusted to allow deeper fins at the bottom, near the emitter? That would help a lot. Efficiency first, aesthetics as applicable. Being as how this is in the 3D design stage, this is where small adjustments can be easily applied and the end result would be much improved. Just sayin…

Edit: I realized an error, the 4 emitters are in 2P2S configuration, so the 6V run across a pair in series would see 2.5A each, effectively making 1000 lumens each at the emitter. Might hit that 3500 after all. My bad, all this series/parallel 8.4V step down to 6V and divided by an ounce of Vodka get’s confusing. Either way, there is gonna be some heat produced, that much I do know!

Sober or not you just can’t stop yourself 10,000 just around the corner. :smiley: :beer:

Dale buddy you’ve probably forgotten more about this flashlight stuff than I’ll ever know. As far as the lumen numbers they are just what Simon estimated. As far as the suggested design changes I can’t tell you what factors are involved but I’m certain that manufacturing cost plays a part. Might be that making the light as you suggest would cost another $10 per unit. It might be just that Simon had a different thought. He did say that the huge amount of heat generated by the XHP70 was a difficult thing to work out in the design and the components. All I have is a picture of a CAD model but that doesn’t mean Simon isn’t beyond that and into the manufacturing process already. I can ask but I think he’s pretty content with the design. Looks pretty sweet to me.

I would buy one.

Would there be much to be gained by buying the host and modifying it yourself with the stock light producing a lumen output of 3500?

+1.
The only thing that would hold me back from buying one would be if the tint were cooler than, say… 5,500Kelvin.
Perfect would be between 4,500 and 5,000K :slight_smile:

Added to my 2016 to-buy-list. Hope there will be a cheaper MT-G2 option too.

I hope Simon uses a XHP70 SinkPad instead of the usual bargain basement aluminum MCPCBs.

I had somewhere around $60 in my head. So that sounds perfect.
Also I won’t use the 15% discount, just like I didn’t use it when I purchased the L2 from him. I know Simon is doing this for us so to thank him I will pay the full price in return.

Or larger (proprietary) 26mm-30mm copper DTP board? :heart_eyes: But a 20mm StinkPad is awright too! :bigsmile: Same size head/reflector as the L2? :~ Driver cavity looks to be bigger then the L2, what size will it be? Will extra OP reflectors be made for purchase too? :wink:

Totally agree with you Dale!! Just had to fix that error part for ya Dale!! :bigsmile:

The SinkPAD made for MK-R is a 6V star that fits this emitter and has much bigger traces. The one made for the XHP-70 is a dual 6V/12V option star and has thin traces because of that. Either would work at 5A, but those that want to hot rod it would fare better with the MK-R version.

Changing the AutoCad design slightly wouldn’t cost any more in production, the CNC machines would just follow slightly different routes in the making of the parts. Having that big bulky area on the reflector gains nothing for anybody, likewise the wasted air space between reflector and head is doing nothing, so utilizing that space so the fins could be deeper is really a simple and very effective option, the light wouldn’t even look different because of it. A few fins at the bottom would be deeper, is all.

Not drinking, very seldom do, I just forgot that the 4 emitters are in 2S2P, which changes the game when looking at a 5A delivery. It’s this same 2S2P configuration that makes the 6V/12V SinkPAD have the skinny traces, they have to supply 6V to each side, splitting the 4 dies so long skinny traces route all over the face of the board. The MK-R star is simple with wide traces, capable of much more power delivery.

Modding this light would potentially gain a couple thousand lumens. :wink: (power bump)

Using a quality copper dtp mcpcb is really important with an xhp70. I hope Simon understand that.

Also to be honest I agree with Dale, but if Simon is already in the production fase then it will be too late.

I never discount Dale’s advice on these things and for the record I agree. I just don’t know if it’s too late in the process or if Simon will be willing to make another change at this point. If I remember correctly Simon is putting the emitter on copper but I’m going to check with Simon on both concerns. I’ll keep you posted.

Typical of nearly every large high powered flashlight, there are huge thermal bottlenecks in the head (observe the pinched areas of aluminum while following the yellow lines from the floor plate to the bezel). This will prevent heat from traveling from the floor plate through the entire head to disperse the heat into the air. The results are trapped heat at the base of the head, which also heats the batteries to high temperatures during extended use (especially the 1st cell). Using your lithium batteries to absorb heat is not good! And once they are hot, they take a long time to cool down inside the battery tube (2X not good!). :Sp

Id like to offer a few suggestions which could transform this light from just another large Convoy into one of industry renowned stellar performance that will smoke its competition in price, functionality, performance and mod friendliness:

  • Bolster the wall thickness inside the head to closely follow the contours of the reflector. Keep the walls as thick as possible. There should be very little space anywhere between the reflector and the inside of the head (less than 2mm). All that dead air we now see between the reflector and head should be solid aluminum!
  • Trim all that wasted aluminum from the fat mid portion of the reflector so the head can be built thicker to help conduct heat.
  • Make ALL the cooling fins the same diameter as the bezel to add surface area to exchange heat with the air. While we have grown used to seeing lights with useless small tapered cooling fins, they are ineffective and only there for aesthetics. The highest concentration of heat is generated at the floor plate where the largest/deepest cooling fins are needed to conduct heat… not those silly worthless little girly fins! :Sp Its time to get serious and offer a light that works as good as it looks!

Something like a scaled up C12 (only much better):

  • Keep the floor plate at least as thick as it appears to be in the rendering. It looks like a chunky 8mm. VERY NICE! The thicker the better.
  • 2 x 26650 cells will get sucked dry in no time at all. Much better would be 3 x 32650 so the famous high capacity/low sag (yet inexpensive) TF32650 cells could be used. The unprotected version of those cells remain the highest capacity of all that have been tested to date (6,700mah) and dont even break a sweat at +10A. Without them, the TrustFire TR-J20 would never be able to reach its fullest, long running mod potential.
  • Is the reflector really only 65mm? Again, the light would get heat soaked very quickly becasue it seriously lacks the surface area necessary to transfer the heat from a +40 watt emitter. Also, the smallish reflector would hamper the efficiency of the large XHP70. How about 100-120mm reflector? This would provide a much larger head surface area to transfer heat while putting out more lumens and throwing them much much farther for the same amount of power. :bigsmile: Its time to stop choking the potential of the incredible XHP-70 and unleash its full capability.
  • Offer separate battery extension tubes for 4 cell mod configurations. Higher voltage/less amps if far less picky with power requirements than low voltage/high amps, while realizing far greater run times. Again, hopefully for 32650 cells. We can always use plastic sleeve adapters to drop down to 26650 cells for those who prefer the smaller cells (Such is the case for the TrustFire TR-J20)
  • Rather a no-brainier, but a Copper DTP MCPCB should be mandatory for any flashlight that creates this much heat.
  • Quality dual sided AR lens… absolutely mandatory.
  • Obviously, also offer as a host kit with the ability to purchase all the parts separately (including orange peal and smooth reflectors), drivers, battery tubes, switches, etc. Id buy a ton of them in bulk quantity if the specs were changed and proven effective!
  • With different battery tube, reflector finish and driver options, this could be a modular system offered from 2 - 4 cell configurations to handle the XHP-50, XHP-70 and XHP-35 while properly dispensing with the enormous amount of heat these emitters generate. A modular system would also keep manufacturing costs down while offering several different configurations… rather than just one mediocre, hot running, inefficient flashlight.

The one guy that could pull this off while maintaining a quality product is Simon. Then we could ditch all those other overpriced poorly designed XHP based flashlights and base our large single emitter flashlight mods in mostly one host. The stock offerings as well as the mod potential could be endless.

So far, the only “out of the box” large flashlight I am aware of that offers proper heat sinking, a great mod host, quality and a fair price is the TrustFire TR-J20, although it could stand to have had larger cooling fins at the base. Simon could do much better while providing the best “beast” light to date.

Im not holding my breath, but it would sure tear down all the other overpriced failures that have been based on XHP emitters so far. The changes would completely transform the light posted in the OP, but would also make it worthy for the XHP-70. Otherwise, its just another 65mm XHP (but with legendary Convoy budget quality).

Maybe offer both!!! :bigsmile: :bigsmile:

What do others think?

I’ll buy 4 Right NOW!!! :wink:

+1 DOWN WITH GIRLY FINS!!!

Dear Mr. FlashPilot,

I’m certainly not going to discount such a heap of well thought out suggestions. I don’t have the time to respond to every detail right now but I’ll do my best. Here are my thoughts on your thoughts…

…huge thermal bottlenecks in the head …prevent heat from traveling from the floor plate through the entire head to disperse the heat into the air… trapped heat at the base of the head, which also heats the batteries

I can’t argue with any of that. I see what Simon was going for with more reflector/head contact area where the reflector but you’re right. Because it’s not at the bottom which is the only place I see it as beneficial, it’s a bottleneck/heat trap.

Bolster the wall thickness inside the head to closely follow the contours of the reflector. Keep the walls as thick as possible. There should be very little space anywhere between the reflector and the inside of the head (less than 2mm). All that dead air we now see between the reflector and head should be solid aluminum!

I agree to about following the contours but thickness needs to be kept within reason for both build cost and shipping cost otherwise this becomes a $100 light.

Trim all that wasted aluminum from the fat mid portion of the reflector so the head can be built thicker to help conduct heat.

Agreed but again within reason for cost effectiveness.

Make ALL the cooling fins the same diameter as the bezel to add surface area to exchange heat with the air. While we have grown used to seeing lights with useless small tapered cooling fins, they are ineffective and only there for aesthetics. The highest concentration of heat is generated at the floor plate where the largest/deepest cooling fins are needed to conduct heat… not those silly worthless little girly fins! Sick Its time to get serious and offer a light that works as good as it looks!

I cannot agree with you 100% here. Simon has always been about building good looking lights so aesthetic value will always matter to him. My influence is just that. He makes the calls, but he has always listened to reason whenever I’ve presented it. The examples I’ve seen of lights with perfect cooling are on the ugly side IMHO. I think most things in life come down to finding the proper balance and this is no exception. Perfect cooling means an UGLY light. Perfect looks means poor cooling. Find the balance is my thinking. That said I agree that more can be done to better cool the L6.

Something like a scaled up C12 (only much better)

U-G-L-Y it aint got no alibi it’s UGLY!

Much better would be 3 × 32650…

Not a very common cell and you’re adding almost the cost of the light in batteries to power it. I for one just can’t afford that.

How about 100-120mm reflector?

No disrespect but dude that’s a satellite dish :wink:

extension tubes for 4 cell mod configurations…

He’s not going to make it if he’s going to sell it to 50 people worldwide. Once the light is released maybe we could do a poll on who would buy a 4 cell tube

Copper DTP MCPCB…

Fairly certain that was addressed at the outset but I’ve asked Simon to verify.

Quality dual sided AR lens… absolutely mandatory.

Absolutely agreed. Simon is working on creating a high quality lens, AR coated on both sides.

offer as a host kit with the ability to purchase all the parts…

Host will be offered. All the parts individually is a lofty goal but a good one.

With different battery tube, reflector finish and driver options, this could be a modular system offered from 2 – 4 cell configurations to handle the XHP-50, XHP-70 and XHP-35 while properly dispensing with the enormous amount of heat these emitters generate. A modular system would also keep manufacturing costs down while offering several different configurations… rather than just one mediocre, hot running, inefficient flashlight.

Agreed

The one guy that could pull this off while maintaining a quality product is Simon.

Agreed :slight_smile:

Well… that took a long time to respond to but thank you for such well thought feedback. Respect. :beer: