Call me what you may. I could give a rat's tooshie. What I am is not what you call a shill but a businessman.... Which based on your posts of late that is one thing that you cannot and thankfully do not lay claim to. There is a big difference between explaining how something works vs defending something. You can stay in the cheese line all you like and complain that they only gave one block instead of two. I do not believe in entitlement and certainly do believe that anything is free. Moreover, there is proof in my methods of practice.
Exactly. It is not all bad. Too many people believe that it is for manufacturers to charge more when in reality it is not. Just think about it...if we lost every single local dealer then all lights would end up having to get ordered in from China and everyone would have to wait weeks to get theirs. There are people that will pay twice as much as us to get what they want immediately.
When the deals get so loud that they start popping up on search engines then yeah..they will shut them down. For the most part WE do not have to worry about it.
If you wish to argue about MAP then i stand by my statement thats its the closest legal thing to price fixing allowed (of course if a few more pro business supreme court justices are assigned next term consumers will lose many more rights, which some argue is a good thing).
[/quote]
If you wish to argue about MAP then i stand by my statement thats its the closest legal thing to price fixing allowed (of course if a few more pro business supreme court justices are assigned next term consumers will lose many more rights, which some argue is a good thing).
[/quote]
Let's go with that....
Does anybody realize that every McDonalds, Denny's, Taco Bell, or any franchise, actually does the same thing? That is some of the broadest "price fixing" that I have ever seen. To make it worse...it really is not needed in those examples but their prices are still dictated.
It has but what I have never seen is a clear explanation nor any attempt to understand why we have to deal with it. The minute that acronym gets mentioned everybody flips out and that really is not necessary. What is necessary for us to improve and advance the hobby is to accept that it is there to stay and how to work with it instead of stalling the hobby by just slamming the door....actually a revolving door that swings around to smack us in the butt.
I don’t see that as the same thing. To the consumer, all McDonald’s are the same entity, so there is nothing wrong with all of their stores charging the same price for the same burger. Now if MCD, BK, Wendy’s all served the exact same burger for the exact same price, then there might be a case.
But they actually are not the same entity. They are merely distributors for the same corporation and consequently make millions doing so. Burger King and Wendy's also franchise and using the same pricing schemes. It certainly is not to benefit the consumer...or is it?
They are different entities in the eyes of their respective franchise corporation and tax collectors, but to the general public, they are essentially the same, thus the consistent pricing within each brand. Now if MCD, BK and Wendy’s all purchased the same premade burger, just microwave and serve, then are forced to adopt MAP pricing by the supplier, see how many people believe that’s a benefit to the consumer then, health effects aside.
True. To most they do all look alike but isn't the same true of products. The average consumer does not know what wholesale cost is and brand zzz costs xx much.
About tyranny...nobody "has" to buy. They can choose different unless "that" is what they want...oops...doesn't that sound like capitalism?
No way MAP is good for the consumer, dealers and manufacturers yes. Just bought a light undercutting map by 45% and the dealer I bought from is still making money. In this case the MAP is probably double dealer cost. No reason the dealer has to make that much money. If MAP were so widespread we would have no Walmart or Home Depot, only mom and pop stores. MAP is another reason I buy IBM clone and not Apple computers.
But even Walmart and Home Depot deal with it. When you see what seems to be the same thing..check model and SKU numbers. You will see they are different and thus "Walmart only" products, etc
Congrats that you got the discount from MAP....I bet the dealer uses that as a loyalty reward.
Edit: If the dealers and the manufacturers didn't make money do you think that would help competition?
MAP is anti-competitive, anti-consumer, and I’m automatically suspicious of someone trying to sell MAP to the masses as a good thing. At best, I think the OP is misinformed.
It’s like AT&T putting a cap on your data to convince you that bandwidth is scarce, and then letting you share this scarce commodity with your friends and family, which makes you hit the cap faster and incur more charges on your bill. Because they’re all about doing cool things for you. Not many people fall for data caps, and not many people fall for MAP as pro-consumer. My friends and family don’t celebrate bigger bills—Though I can’t speak for anyone else’s friends and family.
Because nothing about MAP is pro-consumer. Bort was only wrong in his terminology. Trying to start a grass roots movement where you convince a large community to go against their own best interests is called astro-turfing. I’ll come right out and question the OP’s intentions, though like my bro Bort, I’m not going to spend much time debating nonsense. Embrace MAP as you will—I said my peace.
On a more serious note, there's no need for personal attacks here. Those who have already crossed the line, please go back and edit or delete your posts. Thanks in advance. I'll check back here in 12 hours from this post to make sure everything is cleaned up. Please remember:
Racer - It is not grassroots. Just the opposite. Simply stating reasons for a reality....a reality that most of us do not like but speaking for myself I have learned to deal with it long time ago.
AT&T though is not a good comparison. They sell a product but their product is a service. When dealing with hard goods it is completely different because even independent cell phone dealers are not required to buy service in advance to sell to the consumer....like phone cards used be once upon a time.
Also, no need to be leery. I do everything I can to facilitate "us" in getting what we want. What I do not do is attack disparage manufacturers and dealers (in any industry) for utilizing tools that ensure their survival and actually increase competition. That is what actually opened the doors to the mega-boxes and put many out of business. I do not think we want numbers to dwindle so that we limit the choices available to us and others.
In 2008 GM shuttered many dealerships because their margins were slim. In the end...prices went up because of less competition. It did not affect me because I know the game and have always been able to buy cars at cost or even loss depending on what it was and when but on the whole it actually cost people more.
I see all sides of this and I have great respect for most of those who have stated their opinion here. But I am on the side of those against MAP simply because it is an attempt to control the market, not to supply what the market wants.
I will cede to it’s reality regards GB’s and discounts we get where it is requested the below-MAP price not be revealed publicly since that gets us better prices- that’s good for us. But it also proves a lower price is possible and not being given which equally proves that MAP is not good for the masses. MAP is there, it is real, and I just deal with that reality whether I like it or not.
Yes, lower prices are possible. That is usually the case. Those lower prices usually come at the expense of the dealer's profit. If they gave everybody the lower prices and made little to no profit then they would not be around. Unless we know the true overhead of a business it is not possible to say what is enough profit.
I think most small business owners and small manufacturers are just good people trying to take care of the end user but they must have a profit to do so. For flashlights we almost get exempt but MAP actually does exist throughout and nobody really gives it any thought. I seldom hear people that are sitting in an iHop state how much a dozen eggs cost when they are paying their bill....or the bar that is selling $8 for a shot of whiskey. :)
