The purpose of MAP and how it really helps us

It has but what I have never seen is a clear explanation nor any attempt to understand why we have to deal with it. The minute that acronym gets mentioned everybody flips out and that really is not necessary. What is necessary for us to improve and advance the hobby is to accept that it is there to stay and how to work with it instead of stalling the hobby by just slamming the door....actually a revolving door that swings around to smack us in the butt.

I don’t see that as the same thing. To the consumer, all McDonald’s are the same entity, so there is nothing wrong with all of their stores charging the same price for the same burger. Now if MCD, BK, Wendy’s all served the exact same burger for the exact same price, then there might be a case.

KuoH

But they actually are not the same entity. They are merely distributors for the same corporation and consequently make millions doing so. Burger King and Wendy's also franchise and using the same pricing schemes. It certainly is not to benefit the consumer...or is it?

They are different entities in the eyes of their respective franchise corporation and tax collectors, but to the general public, they are essentially the same, thus the consistent pricing within each brand. Now if MCD, BK and Wendy’s all purchased the same premade burger, just microwave and serve, then are forced to adopt MAP pricing by the supplier, see how many people believe that’s a benefit to the consumer then, health effects aside.

KuoH

Collusion hinders the free market and benefits nobody

True. To most they do all look alike but isn't the same true of products. The average consumer does not know what wholesale cost is and brand zzz costs xx much.

About tyranny...nobody "has" to buy. They can choose different unless "that" is what they want...oops...doesn't that sound like capitalism?

No way MAP is good for the consumer, dealers and manufacturers yes. Just bought a light undercutting map by 45% and the dealer I bought from is still making money. In this case the MAP is probably double dealer cost. No reason the dealer has to make that much money. If MAP were so widespread we would have no Walmart or Home Depot, only mom and pop stores. MAP is another reason I buy IBM clone and not Apple computers.

But even Walmart and Home Depot deal with it. When you see what seems to be the same thing..check model and SKU numbers. You will see they are different and thus "Walmart only" products, etc

Congrats that you got the discount from MAP....I bet the dealer uses that as a loyalty reward.

Edit: If the dealers and the manufacturers didn't make money do you think that would help competition?

MAP is anti-competitive, anti-consumer, and I’m automatically suspicious of someone trying to sell MAP to the masses as a good thing. At best, I think the OP is misinformed.

It’s like AT&T putting a cap on your data to convince you that bandwidth is scarce, and then letting you share this scarce commodity with your friends and family, which makes you hit the cap faster and incur more charges on your bill. Because they’re all about doing cool things for you. Not many people fall for data caps, and not many people fall for MAP as pro-consumer. My friends and family don’t celebrate bigger bills—Though I can’t speak for anyone else’s friends and family.

Because nothing about MAP is pro-consumer. Bort was only wrong in his terminology. Trying to start a grass roots movement where you convince a large community to go against their own best interests is called astro-turfing. I’ll come right out and question the OP’s intentions, though like my bro Bort, I’m not going to spend much time debating nonsense. Embrace MAP as you will—I said my peace.

Well in my book, it's a THREE LETTER word! :p

On a more serious note, there's no need for personal attacks here. Those who have already crossed the line, please go back and edit or delete your posts. Thanks in advance. I'll check back here in 12 hours from this post to make sure everything is cleaned up. Please remember:

Racer - It is not grassroots. Just the opposite. Simply stating reasons for a reality....a reality that most of us do not like but speaking for myself I have learned to deal with it long time ago.

AT&T though is not a good comparison. They sell a product but their product is a service. When dealing with hard goods it is completely different because even independent cell phone dealers are not required to buy service in advance to sell to the consumer....like phone cards used be once upon a time.

Also, no need to be leery. I do everything I can to facilitate "us" in getting what we want. What I do not do is attack disparage manufacturers and dealers (in any industry) for utilizing tools that ensure their survival and actually increase competition. That is what actually opened the doors to the mega-boxes and put many out of business. I do not think we want numbers to dwindle so that we limit the choices available to us and others.

In 2008 GM shuttered many dealerships because their margins were slim. In the end...prices went up because of less competition. It did not affect me because I know the game and have always been able to buy cars at cost or even loss depending on what it was and when but on the whole it actually cost people more.

I see all sides of this and I have great respect for most of those who have stated their opinion here. But I am on the side of those against MAP simply because it is an attempt to control the market, not to supply what the market wants.

I will cede to it’s reality regards GB’s and discounts we get where it is requested the below-MAP price not be revealed publicly since that gets us better prices- that’s good for us. But it also proves a lower price is possible and not being given which equally proves that MAP is not good for the masses. MAP is there, it is real, and I just deal with that reality whether I like it or not.

Phil

Yes, lower prices are possible. That is usually the case. Those lower prices usually come at the expense of the dealer's profit. If they gave everybody the lower prices and made little to no profit then they would not be around. Unless we know the true overhead of a business it is not possible to say what is enough profit.

I think most small business owners and small manufacturers are just good people trying to take care of the end user but they must have a profit to do so. For flashlights we almost get exempt but MAP actually does exist throughout and nobody really gives it any thought. I seldom hear people that are sitting in an iHop state how much a dozen eggs cost when they are paying their bill....or the bar that is selling $8 for a shot of whiskey. :)

I would like to share a Coke Zero with Bort!

In my opinion, Bort wins the internet! :)

Yeah I’m with Bort and Racer on this one. Useless thread is useless. Map only benefits Bugsy36 it seems.

I agree, and the OP’s arguments are just mind bogglingly silly.

I’ve never heard that term before, thanks :beer:

i love it :slight_smile: :beer:

:beer:

Well, I’ve been in business and I know and understand exactly what bugsy36 is saying. It seems too many people are not able to talk rationally about a subject they feel personally affected by. I ran across a quote from Aristotle a while back that I think speaks to this situation:

It is a fact that MAP touches every area of our lives. I thought it was funny that kuoh even missed the irony of his own statement:

Obviously, it was part of his argument against MAP, and yet, it is the best argument in favor of MAP that has been presented, for it is the very reason MAP exists, as stated in the OP. Please, guys, think about what is being said. And, if you must disagree, give a logical reason for it, not some emotional response that has no bearing on the conversation except to derail what might otherwise be a rational discussion of the topic.

Thanks a lot to those who already went back and edited or deleted their rude posts. There’s a still a few more left, and a few more new rude posts as well. Please fix them.

Also, to those who quoted rude posts, please edit those too.

MAP benefits all of us and is everywhere. Everyone can call it price-fixing, anti-consumer, etc etc, but the fact is it is everywhere and it does have its purpose. It benefits me no more than it benefits anybody else on this forum but it does benefit us by making companies profitable (and not just Chinese vendors). Just because the name is BLF does not mean that we have to regulate ourselves to cheap $3 clones and shun anything or anyone that has MAP.