Why not EDC adjustable focus?

I have a Z8, it’s ok really. The stock emitter was too blue and the driver a little annoying. But apart from that it does what is expected of it.

I used to run a Nichia219A in mine until I broke the emitter faffing with it. It now runs an XB-D I think. Which actually isn’t a bad tint at all.

I agree ‘today’ it’s nothing really to write home about. It’s heavy and gets hot with the stock driver. But it’s well built and solid and I use mine more than I use my SK68’s. Albeit I admit I don’t really use any of these that much these days, I have newer better lights.

Ummm, did you post in the wrong thread? I didn’t know we were talking about emitter swapping. :stuck_out_tongue:

IMHO, you’re almost right about how easy it is to change an emitter. Learning to solder is a prerequisite. I tried for a VERY long time to figure out soldering. It seemed so simple, I thought it should be easy to learn. It wasn’t. But, there are some great tips lying around in various places on BLF that helped me get there. I can now solder wires onto emitter pads successfully! And even before I was very good at it, I was swapping emitters, cuz that’s the easy way to practice. :wink:

Full disclosure: All my brains are in my head. I suck at mechanical things or anything that requires hand work. YMMV.

I tend to think of “zoomies” (the category) as being like the SRK’s in that there is so much more potential that could be tapped. I truly believe that it is technically possible to make a good zoomie. It’s just that it isn’t being done. It can be designed so that the slide mechanism goes further back and further out. In that case, a high quality lens with a longer focal point could be used to give the most output in both zoomed in and zoomed out modes. A small die emitter might be great for a pencil beam, but that’s not very useful to most people really. And those small die LED’s don’t give enough lumens to be useful in flood mode either. I’d be okay with a XP-G2 driven hard but I think better would be a de-domed XM-L2 or a XP-L HI for high output. With a longer focal point lens, the die image won’t be too huge when zoomed in. If we really want to maximize output, a light recycling collar should be added. But, that would limit how close the lens can be to the die for flood mode.

To move in a different direction, what about considering a reflector zoomie instead? The whole reflector/head assembly can be slid up and down like a regular zoomie. Pulling it out would put the reflector at the perfect focal point for throw. Pushing it back would clear the reflector away from the emitter and make the light basically a mule. This with a XM-L2 de-domed or a XPL HI might be the best we can get in the zoomie category. The reflector could be SMO for tightest throw or OP for those who prefer a softer beam edge. Of course, the throw of a reflector couldn’t compare to a perfect die image from a quality lens. But, who needs to see a square die with tiny dots all over it being projected onto whatever they’re trying to look at?

That wouldn’t work, because to move the reflector behind the LED, the LED has to be mounted on a kind of pole, which would dramatically limit the transport of heat away from the LED.

Simple: EDC two flashlights. One wide and the other narrow.

Indeed it would limit heat dispersal. But I’m not sure it’s always the big deal it’s made to be. Copper DTP is a must for higher output, but not every light needs to be a hot rod to make it a good usable light.

Maglites essnetially do this anyway. But it really is more of a “focus” than a “zooming” mechanism. And a reflector based thrower will always have a spill beam. Also moving the LED out of focus may yield a more flood looking beam, but the reality is, all it usually does is make the beam ringy and less total output, if you move the LED below the reflector.

What I’d like to see is an adaptive reflector. I think it’d never offer the same OTF lumen ability, but if you could somehow have a reflector that you could change it’s shape (wider and/or deeper), while probably keeping the LED stationary, then you might be able to get some interesting beam dynamics from it.

I’m not sure how it’d work, either by some kind of sliding plate system that folds out to make the reflector bigger. Or maybe a flexible material such as some kind of highly polished plastic like foil.

I’d never suggest moving the LED below the reflector. I was talking about sliding the reflector back so far that the LED would be almost touching the front lens. That would make it a mule. There would be no ringy beam. And if XM-L2 were used, it would be plenty bright enough to light up a large area. Think about incandescent bulbs. A 60w incan bulb can light up a whole room in your house, and it is only 880 lumens max. In fact, Mag-lites used to be made with the ability to take the reflector completely off and use the light, tailstanding, as a candle! We’ve really come a long way since then in terms of lumen output in flashlights. A high bin XM-L2 could go over 1100 lumens without even exceeding Cree specs.

I don’t think a reflector would necessarily leave too small of a heat-dispersion area around the LED. I was really thinking that the opening in the reflector would be the full size of the battery tube, so it can slide way back. The reflector would have to be pretty big for it to work well. And that might make it too big for some people to carry comfortably. But, I think it can technically work.

…and for that to work you need the LED on a pole construction.

Well, then, I guess a zoomie already qualifies as “LED on a pole construction”. :smiley:

Ok, kind of a thick pole, yes. :wink:

Remember, to slide back the reflector, the pole, on which the LED is mounted, has to go through the (LED-)hole at the bottom of the reflector. This really slim and long pole will severely limit the heat transfer from LED to the body.

I like EDC zoomies. I've modded quite a few of them.

Advantages of a pocket zoomie:

  • Superior throw compared to any comparable sized light with conventional reflector or TIR, if both lights have same width head/optic, and use same emitter at same power.
  • In "throw" mode, there is very little spill. When trying to spot distant objects with dark-adapted eyes, you want as little spill as possible. In a conventional reflector light, the spill on objects around you tends to wash out your vision so you can't see the few lumens reflected off distant objects.
  • Perfectly uniform floodbeam with no hotspot. Depending on your application this can be both a good or bad thing.

Advantages of a conventional flashlight with fixed focus:

  • More lumens. In a typical aspheric lens zoomie, 50% or more of the total lumens are lost when the light is cycled into spot mode. This is because the cone of light coming off the LED is wider than the back of the lens.
    • Some lights use special optics consisting of a central aspheric lens and side TIR. The LED is mounted on a post that in both spot and flood is always surrounded by the optic. This superior type of optic doesn't lose any lumens going to spot mode, but there are fewer options available (LED Lenser, Poplite, etc.)
    • The difference in lumens becomes especially apparent when compared to small triples. I like my FET driver, XPL HI powered 38K lux modded Aleto N8 zoomie with 80ish degree flood. But it is no match in pure impressive output when compared to my similar-sized 3,000 lumen triple XPL HI DQG Tiny III.
  • Usually wider flood.
    • Many zoom lights have very narrow floodbeams that aren't very useful. The worst ones are almost like looking through a spot of light shining through a toilet paper tube.
    • Note however, that the narrow floodbeam is caused by the top of the LED stopping too far from the back of the lens. A modded zoom light can have substantially wider floodbeam than almost any conventional reflector light. The trick is to file down the right parts to allow the back of the lens to retract within 1mm of the top of the LED.
  • Beam Pattern.
    • For short-range use the combination of spot and spill may be substantially brighter than the "all spill" or "tiny spot" from a zoom light.
  • Better build quality.
    • Most zoom flashlights are cheaply made budget lights. There simply isn't the premium market available for them. There are a few mid-sized" quality zoomies (Lenslight Mini, Fenix FD40), but there really aren't any premium pocket-EDC sized zoom lights. If you want a cutting edge pocket zoom light, chances are you're going to have to build or mod one yourself.
    • Because there are so few options available, there isn't as much innovation in zoom lights, and fancy UIs are nearly non-existent.
  • Not waterproof. Most zoom lights are intentionally not waterproof.
    • Cycling the zoom mechanism usually changes the internal volume of the light. If the light were air-tight, air pressure equalizing tends to force the bezel to return to whatever position it was in when the battery tube was sealed. Air needs to be able to enter and exit so air pressure can equalize. Alternatively, the bezel can be made extremely stiff, but this usually means it can't be cycled one-handed.
  • Fewer moving parts to break.

I want to thank all of you for a welcome and unexpected treat of experience in flashlight education. I just sat down after getting home and thought I would relax and unwind while viewing BLF. Then BAM! This thread has me waking up to the possibility of a new light.

For the more immediate future, a variety of lights have been mentioned and I thank you kindly, as I plan to be trying one or more of them asap after I digest all of this and their pricing, of course. Also and of more interest, a variety of design methods are being discussed for a superior light, so thank you for freely sharing your knowledge.

I think I am getting the impression that todays emitters and other possibles, ie: designing, may finally be able to compensate “enough” for the obscene loss of lumins robbed by the aspheric lense, and to still be a worthwhile EDC to produce. ? ! ? ! Count me in!

My optimistic side is saying it can be done, where there’s a will there is a way!

My conservative side is saying: just about anything can be done but what are the possible costs and does it make financial sense to attempt it? Personally of course I say yes but then I’m just me, a guy with very very little experience, BUT (T) :smiley: also a guy with more than enough ambition to get involved, and somehow help if possible!

For now, thanks again everyone, I am enjoying the heck out of your discussion and now I really have to relax, as this is over-taxing my daily mental capacity! I really appreciate your help and I look forward to where this is hopefully going…

Also before I forget, and unless my mind is completely gone, which is possible, the BD04 white is not adjustable focus. I was surprised since I was of the understanding my Convoy 365nm UV is the same BD04 body, and it is adjustable.

According to the product page the Convoy BD04 it is adjustable, and the reviews for the ThorFire version BD04 state that it is adjustable.

Some old pics of mine from a few years ago.

This is my POP lite T33 (second in the left):

It’s a basic one mode 3xAAA light, although you can get a multimode 4xAAA version too. I believe it is essentially a Led Lenser and probably built in the same factory. I bought this one several years ago, so it’s “older” specs today. It has an XP-E and a claimed 200 lumens (probably Led lumens, not OTF).

On paper it should perform quite badly.

It uses a TIR optic just like a Led Lenser, unlike the aspheric lenses used by most budget zoomys.


Fit and finish are superb and as good as any premium light I own.

For this comparison I compared it to a Solarforce L2M p60 with an Ultrafire 3 mode XM-L drop in (older specs again, because this was a few years back). This was a once popular drop in and known to make good output in it’s day at 600 lumens +. And to be fair it performs fairly well compared to say a current Convoy M1 or M2 being slightly less bright than the 2.8amp driver the Convoys use with the XM-L2.

p60:

T33:

p60:

T33:

Now I really like the p60 format and the reflector size. But the T33 with way less lumens and using a much inferior battery type, somehow seems to flood better and throw better than the p60. For the same given size.

The current Led Lenser P7.2 uses a more modern XP-G2 emitter. But imagine what an XP-L HI with a good driver and an 18650 could do using such a lens. Led Lensers (and the T33), both have the Led mounted on a post to make it work with the TIR optic. So heat and direct drive from a Li-ion probably isn’t sensible. But even running one at 2.0 - 2.8amps would likely be amble to make it a very nice light indeed.

I am just a spectator enjoying and learning what I can from these discussions, and once again I will publicly display my illiterate terminology. Convoys BD04 shows in the specs the following information that I have copied and pasted from Simons Store >>>

>Focal Length:
Non-adjustable<

Does this relate to something other than adjusting the beam? Or is it a misprint, since the BD04 UV is listed as “adjustable”, which it is.

Thanks.

Also, am I interpreting some of the discussion correctly, in that EDC’s using conventional batteries of 1.2/1.5 volts are able to produce similar results compared to Li-on’s? I realize this (unintentionally) sounds OverSimplified and my apologies for it, but alas I am admittedly a simple minded newbie without the ability to ask it more intelligently.

Probably a misprint as that does indeed appear to be an aspheric zoomie.

One thing to note however: I recall reading that optical acrylic has very poor UV transmittance. For a UV light, you should use a glass lens. If that particular light has the optical acrylic lens typical to almost all zoomies then this may not be a good host for a UV LED.

I’d like a good zoomie light but can’t find one that’s worth a crap…or build one that’s worth a crap for that matter. I always get nasty rings…

I assume you’re using budget zoomies with aspheric lenses and not an LED Lenser style optic.

I also assume you’re using at least an XPE and not an XRE with it’s metal frame and glass lens. With modern CREE or Nichia emitters with Silicone domes, the rings are caused by reflections off the inside of the pill, head and bezel. You can reduce these rings by applying black ink with a Sharpie to the appropriate areas.

Depending on your light, it may be possible to completely eliminate them by disassembling it and applying matte black paint in the appropriate areas. However, please note that most paint doesn’t stick well to aluminum.

An SK-58 makes a good every day carry, but it is bigger than the SS-5039 I am carrying now. It is true that zoomies don’t dissipate heat as well and aren’t waterproof when you zoom them, but I think they blind and irritate people around you less and I live in a city.

Since we are in zoomies, I just reversed one of those budget zoomie’s aspheric lens, just flipped it in and left the flat side out and the rounded side in just out of curiosity, hmmm, interesting, same all hot spot but wider, and all flood is even wider as well, full flood wall of light, somehow it lights much bigger area zoomed in or zoomed out, I’ll keep like so for a couple of days see how it feels, should be good for walking I suppose, anyhow a bit less brightness though in general of course, and the nasty ring is still there but smoother.