[WIP] 15mm PAM2803 w/ ATtiny13A rough layout / possibility

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HarleyQuin
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Rufusbduck wrote:
… Phooey.
That was close, huh? Big Smile

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

Rufusbduck
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I can order some FastTech boards and Oshpark pcb’s and maybe even swap the parts even though I don’t have a HAR gun but then I’d need to send them off to someone who can program them. Maybe if I take the inductor off last and install it first I can use the connected pads to reflow the solder under it. Anyone in the SF Bay Area do flashing? (Please not the raincoat kind)

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

HarleyQuin
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No sweat.
I really can’t recommend hand-soldering on these (I use a simple Youyue858D+)
And I’m still not convinced this LVP thing is really truly worth the effort we need to put into this.

I’m about to finish the 17mm board for a simple FT-driver swap plus ATtiny13A, that might be a better and easier starting point.

As far as the 15mm line goes, I’m still happy with the HQ15B v2 approach. I got them as 0.8mm board already, but the fab shifted the soldermask. So before I re-order them, I’ll take the opportunity to fine-tune them and then, in 4-6 weeks …

Smile

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

Rufusbduck
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Mostly I’ll use any 15 mm version for presents/gaws for people that don’t use rechargables anyway. It would be nice for nimh cells though. At a minimum a low voltage signal could be done.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Rufusbduck
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How much does the voltage from the buck ic drop as the cell(s) discharge? I know with one cell it falls right out the gate.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

HarleyQuin
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Rufusbduck wrote:
Mostly I’ll use any 15 mm version for presents/gaws for people that don’t use rechargables anyway. It would be nice for nimh cells though. At a minimum a low voltage signal could be done.
Yes, LVP (as cutoff) is meant for rechargeables only. It would be no good for primaries, as they are supposed to be drained fully.
If we get this to work and if we get a firmware for this (big ifs) then it should be implemented to make LVP optional.

Rufusbduck wrote:
How much does the voltage from the buck ic drop as the cell(s) discharge? I know with one cell it falls right out the gate.
Could you please rephrase this (language barrier here) as I’m not sure what you need. Which voltage in which condition?
And, err, boost ic, right?

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

Rufusbduck
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Oops! Yes, with a single 1.5v cell the current supplied by the boost ic drops steadily. Where with two cells it maintains output for some time. Kind of a lazy question as I should just look it up myself from HJK’s test data. Sorry.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Rufusbduck
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HarleyQuin wrote:
Wight, really happy to have you back in.

.

Rufusbduck wrote:
Would be nice to see that Fastech driver stripped and a schematic of the oshpark board.

This picture is closest to a ‘stripped’ version of the FT driver I have at hand. It’s the exact driver I did modify, pic taken while in the process of swapping MCUs. What you can’t see is the connection between pin4 and pin6 under the PAM2803.

.

.

There is the other thread where we discussed the boost driver and @ImA4Wheelr had drawn a schematic of the FT driver. Just borrowing, hope that’s ok.

My successful Mod was this:
[EDIT: new picture, first picture was missing the connection between MCUpin6 and FetGate (the PWM signal).

.

.

ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Those 3 amp jobbers HQ alerted to?  I have some that I picked up off Ali.  Haven’t used any yet.  You’re welcome to a handful. 

Thanks for stepping in Beer
The BAT60A is quite easy to source in Europe but plays hard to get overseas.

I had briefly tested the BAT60A on my modded FT driver as well and it worked.

.

!http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r750/soLwnndz78/DSCF2070a_zpsjhs0wg9...!


HQ, in the schematic does “L-” represent driver Led- or mcpcb Led-?

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

HarleyQuin
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Rufusbduck wrote:
HQ, in the schematic does “L-” represent driver Led- or mcpcb Led-?

Both, as they are the same electrical signal.

At source of the Fet (S) is the full negative output of the boost circuit.
The Fet is PWM controlled via gate and throttles the output.
So drain of the Fet (D) is the regulated negative output of the driver (L-).
On the driver PCB, D is connected to the LED- pad (of the driver).
This pad on the driver will be connected (by physical wire) with the LED- pad on the MCPCB (which is the (M)etal-(C)ore-PCB the LED is soldered on).

Hope that helps
HQ

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

HarleyQuin
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Hmmm, when I look at your quote I think it might be a good thing that I take the time to consolidate all the information in a new thread.
I need an OP to do so and admit that I had up to now avoided to branch out. But I have several boost driver versions now and more planned and I need a clearer arrangement.

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

Gunga
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Yes please! I watch these boost driver threads with baited breath. I so need a good 15mm boost driver!

HarleyQuin
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Honestly, it’s nice to know there is still interest… keeps me going on.
If it were only for myself, I would have wrapped it up with what I already have months ago.

Could you state what is “good” in your eyes?

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

grayski74
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Im keeping a close eye on this too.

I would be happy nanjg 102 with custom mode group selections a la guppydrv or blf a6 driver.

djozz
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Still interested here too, watching this thread. Smile

I’m all for those small single AA lights that all need a 15mm boost driver. I’m looking for efficiency and good output on an eneloop/alkaline if possible, but even more for a more invisible PWM and a less medieval UI. My best example of a nice and good output AA boost driver is the Olight S15 driver (but I would like clicky operation instead of e-switch), but that is probably too good to be true.

Gunga
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For me. I’m looking for 1.5 volts usage, 14500 is not a big deal to me. 3 or more levels with a great moonlight mode (lower the better. 0.1 lumens? Less?). If super low moonlight need 4 levels to keep the spacing reasonable.

Option for no memory or hybrid memory. Off time, short latch time.

Lvp not a big deal for me since 14500 is optional. Max mode, 300mA or more? I’m not looking for a barn burner.

Programmable is nice. Invisible pwm.

15×4mm size? I want to put it in a Tain Aura titanium AA.

Rufusbduck
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HarleyQuin wrote:
This seems to work.

I hooked up a stock Nanjg110 to an ATtiny13a, and a Cmcu, both remainder of a Nanjg AK47. I added an OffTimeCap between Pin-2 and GND. And I used the FET I described 2 posts before. I placed the FET on the pads for a 7135, cut the traces and rewired (better: re-blobbed) for the PWM signal from Pin-6.

I flashed a it with an offtime firmware with 4 modes.
And there was light.

First impressions:

It does work on two tested frequencies:
PWM at 4 kHz (9.6MHz CPU, divider 8, fuse 6a) had a strong whining, but mostly from the magnet on the Eneloop.
PWM at 18 kHz (4.8MHz CPU, divider 1, fuse 75) still produced a slight whining, hmm…

At 18kHz PWM values of 2 – 10 – 40 – 255 resulted in 12mA – 102mA – 198mA – 404mA with a single full and resting Eneloop. Keep in mind that this boost driver by design does not regulate anymore with 1 NiMH cell. See HKJ’s test for the Nanjg110, especially the first graph. So the current does degrade straight from the beginning in all modes. Results with 2 cells will be better for sure, but those later.

The 404mA at PWM 255 is about the same that resulted in driving the bare Nanjg110 on that LED, which I did before I hooked the setup together. So the FET with PWM does not seem to loose much energy here.

So far, so good.

Led- same signal?
Wouldn’t that just bypass the FET entirely?
It looks like on this one the FET drain is going to led- and the FET source is going to boost driver led-. Part of my confusion stems from the use of 3 different boost sample(Fastech, nanjg110, and the 15mm 2803 driver I’m messing with). Not a knock since it forces me to actually see what I’m looking at but sometime feels like a Gordian knot on 3 pages. The example above looks like it has the Fet drain to mcpcb led- and Fet source to boost led- so not same signal?

I think an updated op would help including schematic, latest oshpark board(s), and maybe an example for those that might be just stacking a controller board(simple pin/pad connection list).

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Fritz t. Cat
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Is this ready to use? The driver I bought from KD has next mode memory and the one fro Ebay looks identical.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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HQ has a non LVP version ready and listed in post 84. Not much testing on it yet though.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Can I get the controller already programmed?

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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I have a couple of copper A1 on their way to me, it would be great to use this driver in them to get rid of the strobe in the original driver. Hope this will be available soon, thank you HarleyQuin.

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I’m ordering some boards now but have no idea how easily this can be part swapped from a donor board. Probably a bit harder than a nanjg 105C. If you want to try it both the parts list and oshpark links are done. I believe it is usable with a donor mcu but not sure and to have off time switching you’d need a donor with that programmed in.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Ordered 1/2 dozen 2oz, .8 mm boards. We’ll see if they can be done by hand.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Looking on with interesr RBD. If anyone can it wiil be your good self.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

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Rufusbduck wrote:
HQ, in the schematic does “L-” represent driver Led- or mcpcb Led-?
Hmm, perhaps we were talking past each other.
You asked about the drawn schematic, this is the schematic of the Fasttech boost driver.
L- represents LED- of this driver, which is where the black cable to the LED is connected (the drain pin of the FET). So yes, on this driver it represents the electrical connection of driver LED- and mcpcb LED-.

L- (on this driver) is not the direct output of the boost circuit. That is pin3 of the PAM2803, which would be LED- on a driver without FET, like the Nanjg110.

On the FT driver the FET is sitting between pin3 of the PAM2803 and the LED.

Rufusbduck wrote:
I’m ordering some boards now …
Glad to have you on board. LOL

[EDIT:]
I opened a 15mm/17mm boost driver thread and will continue to fill it. There are still some parts missing, but it’s a start.

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

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I figured it out but was temporarily confused(happens all too often). I was comparing the drawn circuit to the two boards wired together rather than the single modded Fastech board. Now to wait 3 weeks for the oshpark boards, plenty of time to re-read the thread a few more times.

Are hand wound toroids used to preserve board space at the expense of volume since they only need small wire pads instead of SMD inductor footprints?

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

HarleyQuin
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RBD, just in case you ordered HQB17C v1, I just saw that I swapped the labeling of R2 and R3 (the FT-driver resistors of unevaluated purpose). Sorry… just double check before you build.

Inductors: I have not more than a small clue. But for efficiency (e.g. lower resistance R) they seem to be better when
- large or
- capsuled
Best would be large and capsuled. I believe these large open inductors are cheaper to manufacture and they increase size to compensate for the lack of ferrite (or whatever material around them). These fully capsuled super expensive Coilcraft inductors have the best “less resistance per given size”-ratio.

Oshpark Boards:
HQ ProgKey: Universal Driver Programming Key . Boost: HQ 15mm/17mm programmable boost driver with ATtiny13A
46mm Triple-Channel: BLF SRK FET v3 . 17mm Linear: HQ10D / HQ4D / HQ4S . Contact Boards: 22/24/26mm

Rufusbduck
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Pretty sure I ordered V2. The question on inductors was unrelated. Just curiosity. I thought that the toroid shape closed the ends of the magnetic field left open on a cylindrical coil enhancing the fields properties but even there it was more about the board space savings of a toroid over the SMD inductors. The smaller the board gets the more critical this becomes. 13mm AA boost drivers utilize both sides and the only smaller one than that had stacked boards around a toroid.

I’ll be checking the smaller part component placement several times while waiting on the boards and additional caps/coils as well as following your new thread for any updates.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Definitely V2 and I’m on the May6 panel. Hopefully by the end of the following week I’ll have them. Just for kicks I ordered some of the Ax2002 buck drivers from Fastech as well as some of the Pam2803 boards. Best price for these though I hope they don’t all have the broken inductors as in the picture.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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wight wrote:
There are plenty of efficient boost ICs, but not with a 1.2v or 2.4v Vinput.

If nobody sees any problems with this driver as laid out in post #13 then I’ll review for design rule violations and release it as a WIP.

a small q (sorry if OT), what IC is similar enough to adapt here that would boost 3.7 to 7.5V? want 6-7.5Vout at the same current as these ~1A

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Looked but didn’t locate any 23-6 boost IC’s with 3V input. Some 8 pin IC’s maybe but don’t really know which of the various types to spec. My V2 boards went to fab today. Smile

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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