Q8, PMS SEND TO THOSE WITH ISSUES BLF soda can light

17432 posts / 0 new
Last post
The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9881
Location: Charente France

@Tjhosan Welcome to BLF.

@all, let me try to make some pics of the SRK and 4 reflector.
No way it won’t produce massive flood Wink they even do that with a rappy driver and LB leds now Wink

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15065
Location: LI NY

My fault here as well – I’m guilty of taking many things for granted, as common knowledge, where the reality is readers cover the entire spectrum. I’ll post details on my XM-L2 4 LED SRK clone later this evening – amps, lumens, throw. Can also post 3 LED and the 5 LED modded SRK light numbers so everyone can get some perspective. It’s hard – some of us know SRK’s very well, but clearly it’s also a new, or different form factor light to many.

Totally agree though – the SRK’s out there now are 98% junk: no decent heat path, fake under performing LED’s. Couple of rare exceptions, like the famous SupFire M6, but it has no 4 LED or 5 LED option.

strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 5 days ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine

Tom E yes, please.
And and as soon as you have different.. from your pov what led configuration provides better beams ? 3, 4, 5 ?

The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9881
Location: Charente France

After just looking at four soda can lights here is a little theory.
The lights
SRK 3 led
SRK 4 led (identical to the first apart from reflector and LEDs)
Silver 3 led thing
Uniquefire 1401 (4 LEDs)

The latter two have 1 whole reflector for each led, while the first two have a reflector that is like three or four reflectors where a piece has been cut off so they could merge.

The 3 LED SRK
About 1/3 of the single reflector is missing while that is about half ½ of the 4 LED SRK

Less reflector wall to direct the light forward, ergo more flood, simply by design.

Jinx
Jinx's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 10/16/2011 - 11:35
Posts: 1130
Location: Just outside the EU :)

The Miller wrote:
Well emitters are not clear but 4000 lumens minimal should be doable Wink

Will update op later

So how many emitters?

4000 lumens is single XHP70 territory! This thing should be going on for 5 figures really Wink

pommie
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2013 - 03:56
Posts: 971
Location: Corio, Victoria, Australia

With the 3,4,5 led reflectors, the 3 and 4 reflectors are fastened to the shelf with a bolt in the middle and the 5 up are fastened with 2 small bolts due to having a led in the middle, I have two of these (5 led) and the reflectors have the holes for the bolts in different places, its only 1~2mm and not a problem when making your own shelf, however this shelf is integrated Cool

Cheers David

Edit,
Jeansy, more lumens = more heat 4~5000 lm is about all this body will cope with for anymore than a minute.

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9881
Location: Charente France

OK, had to use the phone and also loosely in the hands, sorry for poor quality pics.
Also the quad SRK is much warmer tint and the phones picks up the blue lB tint of the triple much more and makes it seem brighter while the quad seems dimmer.

The heads

The heads

Ceiling visible beam around 2.3m high, just out of frame above the pic beam around 2.8m high
distance light to hotspot aroud 2,5m
cannot get the whole lit area in the pic, they actually light up the whole kitchen (10m at longest, 6m at widest, and high) NOW, as poorly made stock LBed SRKs, no other light I have can do this so well, not even the S70 or the also floody Uniquefire 1401 with better LEDs that out throws my SRKs easy.

triple

Quad

Outside, little less then 25 meter to the windows at ground level
Triple

Quad

When I go 1 floor up and shine onto the field, the phone does not register it, but the quad has both a better throw (the centre beam is wider) and more flood.
The blue tint of the triple makes it looks brighter then the warm quad on the pics but I see more of the field in terms of lighted area with the quad.

Jinx
Jinx's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 10/16/2011 - 11:35
Posts: 1130
Location: Just outside the EU :)

pommie wrote:

Edit,
Jeansy, more lumens = more heat 4~5000 lm is about all this body will cope with for anymore than a minute.

I’m guessing this is far more than 4K and lasts just over a minute before getting too hot to handle, plenty for a turbo mode…

Quote:
It handles the heat quite well. It gets too hot to hold comfortably after around 1 min and 30 to 45 sek when running the three XPH70s at about 5 amps a piece.

From Mike C’s build here Link
Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15065
Location: LI NY

I ran a 5,000 lumens SRK style 5X (Fing below) light for 2 1/2 minutes, and it began to get warm/hot, but this was a well heat sinked modded light, so the idea is to get the heat to the outside. Can't really compare a 12K-15K light (4K-5K per XHP-70 LED) that Mike C built with what we are talking about. He's pulling 15A at twice the voltage, equal to 30A from 4P cells. No idea what you are trying to say here, or compare to, but Mike C's custom build is wayyyy different. I can't find him mentioning cells, but the only way I see that working is with up to 8 18350's, so about half the capacity of 4 18650's we got here. Besides getting hot after one minute, the cells would probably deplete in 10-12 minutes, if I did the math correct.

Just for comparison purposes:


A SecurityLng SF55 4X SRK clone, modded by replacing the LED's with U2 3C's on the stock aluminum MCPCB, upgrading LED wires, and adding some thermal grease for the contact to the large MCPCB, does:

  Lumens: 2,686 @start, 2,492 @ 30secs, 22.5 kcd (300 meters)


A TangsPower Fing 5X SRK clone, has smaller reflectors, fully modded with 4 U3 3D's and 1 U4 1C in the center on Noctigons, 2.5 mm thick copper shelf, 7135 based driver, 14.66A measured at the tail (clamp meter):

  Lumens: 5,134 @start, 4,910 @ 30secs, 41.5 kcd (407 meters)


A SupFire M6 3X SRK clone, heavily modded with U3-2A's on 20mm Noctigons, FET+1 DD driver:

  Lumens: 5,202 @start, 4,991 @ 30secs, 65.5 kcd (512 meters)


 

 

 

Note: An SRK running at  a stable 15A on 4 Samsung 30Q BT's would run for 48 minutes (12Ah/15A = 0.8 hours).

 

MechEngVictor
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 days ago
Joined: 01/19/2016 - 18:24
Posts: 48
Location: United States

I’m in thank you.

Jinx
Jinx's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 10/16/2011 - 11:35
Posts: 1130
Location: Just outside the EU :)
Tom E wrote:

I ran a 5,000 lumens SRK style 5X (Fing below) light for 2 1/2 minutes, and it began to get warm/hot, but this was a well heat sinked modded light, so the idea is to get the heat to the outside. Can’t really compare a 12K-15K light (4K-5K per XHP-70 LED) that Mike C built with what we are talking about. He’s pulling 15A at twice the voltage, equal to 30A from 4P cells. No idea what you are trying to say here, or compare to, but Mike C’s custom build is wayyyy different……

What I’m saying is that you can buy stock, single emitter lights right now that do 4000lumens, all be it maybe not soda can style.

A BLF special with input from plenty of modders should maybe aim for more? Runtime is a mute point as this would probably be a 1 minute step down turbo and at the other end we can have a nice moon that runs for the 500hrs.

A BLF SRK would be nice, but it would be nicer if it genuinely was special.

Maybe a poll, would you prefer:
A. 4000lumens constant max
B. 10000lumens turbo with step down to 4000constant high

stephenk
stephenk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 36 min ago
Joined: 01/30/2016 - 05:09
Posts: 2349
Location: Australia

I’d like a high mode that would allow for the highest brightness that could be run continuously (until the cells start to run out of juice) without causing thermal issues. Turbo could of course go much higher.

Wieselflinkpro
Wieselflinkpro's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/21/2015 - 04:34
Posts: 982
Location: Germany - TLF

With 6V emitters we have to use a battery-carryer like the TN36 or similar. And a mod to 12V would be easy.
I would prefer higher lumens. But the price would be more than the actual planing with 3V emitters.

My 3 emitter SRK has XHP50 with 4.3 Amps for each emitter and a thick chopper heatsink.

The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9881
Location: Charente France

4000 lumens out of a soupcan is only achieved with modding or spending a lot.
That there are stock lights using series configuration and do 4000+ lumens is not really relevant here.
Show me a stock parallel configuration light doing 4K and one that does 10K and we will look at them with interest and in awe.

pommie
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2013 - 03:56
Posts: 971
Location: Corio, Victoria, Australia

stephenk wrote:
I’d like a high mode that would allow for the highest brightness that could be run continuously (until the cells start to run out of juice) without causing thermal issues. Turbo could of course go much higher.

This is a hard one to judge, will it be for use in this great land where evening temps are often in the mid 20c or in one of the northern states of the USA or northern Europe where they are often below freezing ?
I have one light, an XPH50 at 5A, that is a pain to hold when ambient is around 25c but real nice hand warmer when its down to less than 10c Big Smile

Cheers David

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

Caleb
Caleb's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 03/13/2016 - 01:28
Posts: 790

I realize that a super low mode could run for hundreds of hours, but I would like see a medium-ish mode that allows for significant run time and also plenty of light.

I’m wondering if any of you gurus can guesstimate the most efficient medium/high lumen output with extended runtime for this type of SRK setup.

Cheers!

The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9881
Location: Charente France

The settings allow a range of modes
So indeed using a mode suitable should not be a problem Smile

Caleb
Caleb's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 14 hours ago
Joined: 03/13/2016 - 01:28
Posts: 790

Right, I get that… but I am wondering if based on the LEDs/Driver combination there would be a sweet spot of greatest output for lowest power expenditure. And if so, then what that output might be.

Thanks again

strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 5 days ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine
Quote:
Maybe a poll, would you prefer: A. 4000lumens constant max B. 10000lumens turbo with step down to 4000constant high

I’d have 3500-4500lm in turbo for 1 minute or less. Then step down to max mode with 2000-2500lm
We can’t have more with SRK soupcan body.
Roche m170 is bigger and has more weight for his ~2600lm max mode

The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9881
Location: Charente France

Caleb, Tom will probably shed some light on this
What I do know is that we aim at a ramping mode to choose besides the normal modes. And in my typical use I mainly set a light to a brightness I need (outside max, inside med for example) so the ramping would allow for minimum needed brightness in any situation thus prolonging use.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 14 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18318
Location: Amsterdam

To get a feeling and gaining knowledge for this group buy, I just finished a 9xXP-L Hi SRK-clone mod that draws 24A (see the what did you mod today thread). It has warm white emitters so the (continuous) output is ‘only’ 4500 lumen (5600lm at start-up), but the power consumption is 90W. It is too hot to hold in (just measured) exactly two minutes (room temperature without air flow). Too hot to hold for a light with a good thermal path in my experience is the correct moment for a stepdown (a safe distance from damage). At the same current, with cool white or neutral XP-L emitters, this light would put out well over 6000 lumen, with added DTP-boards 7000. It feels that the body can handle that, but for a stock light to handle these amps and heat it requires a good design with no mistakes. We are aiming for that of course. And we’re making a 4 emitter light, not 9, so if we really want 6000 lumen OTF that requires very hard driven XP-L leds.
A stable continuous output (room temperature, no airflow) for a host like this appears 6A/2000 lumen to me, with airflow at least double that.

Wrathbringer27
Wrathbringer27's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 03/02/2015 - 09:00
Posts: 2144
Location: Singapore GMT +8

If I were to run a customer BG light, I would want the light to be running above 10000 lumens to make it extremely unique

Words can be broken,
so can bones.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 14 hours ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18318
Location: Amsterdam

Wrathbringer27 wrote:
If I were to run a customer BG light, I would want the light to be running above 10000 lumens to make it extremely unique

This group buy is for a 4x parallel battery, 4 led light. You can not get 2500 lumen OTF out of any 3V type led.
The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9881
Location: Charente France

Wrathbringer27 wrote:
If I were to run a customer BG light, I would want the light to be running above 10000 lumens to make it extremely unique

Sounds great! Can’t wait to see what specs/price it will have.
I’ve seen the 10K mark mentioned before so surely there will be interest!
patmurris
patmurris's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 12/22/2014 - 15:54
Posts: 1720
Location: Nice, France
The Miller wrote:
4000 lumens out of a soupcan is only achieved with modding or spending a lot. That there are stock lights using series configuration and do 4000+ lumens is not really relevant here. Show me a stock parallel configuration light doing 4K and one that does 10K and we will look at them with interest and in awe.

I have a UltraFire 7XML SRK clone that puts out more then 3000 lumen stock – guestimate from ceiling bounce with a lux meter. It is 5-8% dimmer then the massive TR-S700 that has been reviewed here at 3500 lumen.

I would love this BLF SRK to go up to more then 5k lumen on turbo and 3k+ on high. More then that would require 6V/12V and a more complicated battery setup which will raise the cost. That would be for a future 12V edition you can start your car with… Wink

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7699
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

Well, 4x XP-L V6 @3A each will make ~5000 lumens at start. I think I’d be happy enough with that output. It would be ~41.5 watts to the four emitters. Can the host take that? I don’t know. I’ve never owned a SRK. I seriously don’t want it pushed so hard that reliability becomes an issue. And I don’t want any ~6V or ~12V emitters in this light! Maybe we can work out ~6V emitters in V2. Wink

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

koyotee
koyotee's picture
Offline
Last seen: 29 min 10 sec ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 11:12
Posts: 1688
Location: Slovenia

1 xpl nw for me plz

Finaly, proud owner of a Powerex Maha mh c-9000 for my Eneloops:)

Jinx
Jinx's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 10/16/2011 - 11:35
Posts: 1130
Location: Just outside the EU :)

Yes I think maybe you guys are right, the 10k+ lumens obviously needs the series cell setup and so is out of the scope of this.

Maybe a different thread for a totally separate light with series cells and XHP, obviously we would be looking at a $150+ light. Maybe not so much interest on BLF :/

I’m still looking forward to this light, shaping up well for the original design plan Cool

lionheart_2281
lionheart_2281's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 10/25/2012 - 18:32
Posts: 3180
Location: Brisbane, Australia

I might re-sub to the thread in 6 months or so and let the wizards do their thing, no way we will have this for Christmas is my guess Smile
No point getting excited at the ideas just yet, just torturing myself!!!

The Miller
The Miller's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/14/2015 - 12:08
Posts: 9881
Location: Charente France

heheh thanks for the trust
and indeed it will take some time Smile

Pages