Did you also compare the DBS with XM-L to the crelant?
I assume it will throw less, but would be interesting to know by how much.
Not really....well by figures they are pretty much the same on the meter actually. (DBS with T6 3C pill)
But remember, the Crelant is a 63mm front diameter bezel, the DBS is a 55mm.
The Fenix TK70 is 3 XM-L’s right? The XM-L emitter has a surface brightness that is less than a XR-E. So having 3 XM-L’s doesn’t make the emitter surface any brighter.
Those 3 XM-L’s don’t hit the same spot. They make the spot larger. Throw is about lux and not lumens. The XM-L’s put out a larger wall of light but in any one spot the XR-E is brighter.
Take any of your XR-E lights that are driven at around 1A and take any of your XM-L lights that are driven close to 3A and shine them at a wall.
You will see that the center of the hotspot of the XR-E light is brighter than the center of the XM-L beam. The XM-L puts out more light (lumens) but the brightest part of the XR-E beam is brighter.
The brightest part of the beam controls throw because that’s all that’s left at that point.
2100, which pill choice is the one for 1 mode and for one or two 18650’s? Does the light come with an extension tube or is that separate?
Just to be clear…you can go for a two 18650 pill and still sometimes use it with only one 18650…right?
For 1 single mode in max output (ie "tactical usage") and be able to use 2 cells (2 x 18350/16340/18650) it would be 1SM. Pls confirm with Alan of Dereelight.
The extension is EXT650, that makes it able to use 2 x 18650. It is usd12 additional, and is hard anodized.
With a 3SM multi voltage pill....and using a 4.08V TF Flames, i got 7.8 lux reflected.
With 2 x 18350, i got 9.7 lux reflected. So with a single 18650 it is still pretty bright.
Hi 2100,
The 1SD and 3SD pills are optimized for usage with single cells, which is what I want. With the LED driven at 1.2 A, how much of a difference would
there be in terms of lux? For example, if you're getting 93k lux at 1 meter right now with 2 18350 IMRs, how much would you expect to get with 1 18650
at 1.2A as opposed to 1.5 A?
Thanks in advance!
You'd not want the 1.2A pill, the last one i got was about 60k. Also due to bigger die. This is 90k. That's not a minor/invisible difference.
The single cell pill, after stabilising for heat, would slowly lower in output in just minutes albeit very slowly. You need to ask yourself whether you want to pay 80 bucks for this kind of performance? Makes no sense. I already made that mistake, luckily the new smaller die came along (not expensive also) so that mistake can be written off.
Just get the BIO IMRs, they are usable for many other stuff. Safe too, they are no Li Co. On this light you still get like 80 minutes of run time. Seriously i don't see why people wanna get 2 x 18650, this is not a XM-L flashlight like the Sunwayman T40CS in which the tail draw is 1.5A.
Is lux like lumens? For example, do you need four times the lux for the spot to appear twice as bright to the eyes?
Oh, I didn't realize that IMRs used a safe chemistry! That's fantastic! I'd be comfortable experimenting with some multi-cell lights using these batteries.
If I got some, I would probably go with AW IMRs from lighthound, since I've heard that website provides fantastic service.
However, there is a note stating that IMRs have a lower internal resistance, and thus, if left to charge in a standard charger, may surpass the regular 4.2 Volts. I don't own a multimeter to test batteries...do you think this would be a major issue/safety concern? I guess that I will eventually need to invest in a quality multimeter...but not yet.
Not too big an issue with overcharging with IMRs. I mean i have overcharged many cells to like 4.24V and nothing happens, most chargers out there stop at that point more or less. Of course do not do that often as it's somewhat bad for the cell lifetime.
It is when you approach 4.30V then you need to start to be really concerned. What charger are you using?
You need slightly more than 4X the lux for it to double the throw distance.
Why not get protected 16340s then, if you are afraid. One of the cells go flat at 0.8 amps and the protection circuit cuts in immediately, no danger of reverse charging. Pill fails, also cut in immediately. IMRs are a good idea, but protected works better. These have reasonable capacity, nearly 700mAh in a capacity test.
Ok thanks for the seminar. Damn we got some smart guys here. I love it.
I don't really mind my cells losing lifetime. I mean, they're not so expensive that I can't replace them now and again. (:
I'm using a cheap DealExtreme charger that seems to have favourable reviews. http://www.dealextreme.com/p/digital-li-ion-18650-battery-charger-6105
Of course, with this charger, I wouldn't be able to charge either the IMR 18350s or Protected 16430s. I'm not quite sure if I understand what you're saying. Do you mean to say that protected 16430s are entirely safe? Or just that they are as safe as protected 18650s with a LiCo chemistry?
However, when I said that I could experiment with multi-cell lights after being exposed to IMRs, I meant that I could try out some multi-18650 lights that I've had my eyes on for a while, y'know? I mean, 90000 lux is incredible, but it's not as practical as, say, 60000 lux with a reasonable amount of spill for less money.
There is no inherent bigger danger with multi-cell flashlights. It's just that people use those blue Ultrafires cells (one might be 900mAh and the other 1600mAh, reclaimed notebook pack cells etc) that come with Ebay deals. You see them with stuff like Trustfire triple XM-L even. That's crazy. A single cell flashlight with a driver failing (which will happen quite often) is even more dangerous than multi-cell usage. The protection is there for a reason and with good cells you get better PCBs.
There is no way you can be safe with 1-cell/2-cell without a DMM. That is part of the hobby. Same as RC, same as a lot of other hobbies.
For those who are adamant that mult-cell = absolutely dangerous, then they are missing out a lot of the action.
I mentioned quite a number of times before, multi-cell operation is not dangerous. Firing a 1.3G fireworks cake is more dangerous.
When I said earlier that MPP-1 is better host, I meant in terms of "reflector design". Not the manufacturing quality. As I remember, older DBS V3 with reflector and old pill (EZ1000 with 1A current) did something around 30K lux/1m. MPP-1 uses also EZ1000 and moderate drive level (~1A) and it's doing over 50K lux/1m. If it could use deree pill with EZ900@1.5A that would be interesting.
So... Can you screw the deree pill to the MPP-1 and take the results "reflector Vs. reflector" ?
Sorry, i think someone else said as well that Solarforce P60s is better (CL1H V4 is P60). hehe... 
Well yeah, the DBS reflector version is only 48mm head diameter anyway, and the MPP-1 is 56mm. The DBS aspheric head is bigger than the DBS reflector head, not the same. I'll see what the MPP-1 holds inside the head.
Actually i just re-measured, the DBS aspheric head is 52mm. It's definitely smaller than the MPP-1.
PS. The Solarforce MPP-1 is probably not driving the LED at 1A. I am measuring 0.817A at the tail with the 2 batteries. With the same pair of batteries i am getting 0.760A for the DBS aspheric 1.5A pill.
Coolperl, i can't get the pill out of the MPP-1, really tough. Can yours budge?
Don't own MPP-1 now. I sold it a year ago... But from what I remember, it wasn't driven that hard.
So the MPP-1 is still an EZ1000? Well there's an upgrade waiting to happen.
Mine is EZ1000 for sure.
Exactly - a more extreme example would be a LASER- the Lumens might be very low relative to a White LED but the "Lumens per square inch" could easily be 20 times higher in the LASER- a more concentrated spot of light.
I think the throw from the emitter will depend on two parameters, one is as you said the surface emitting area, and the second is the angle the dome is designed to throw the light.
"The brightest part of the beam controls throw because that's all that's left at that point."
I do not agree 100% with that, if it was true, the lens diameter would not be important, but it is.
The bigger the diameter, the more amount of light it can get to throw it.