Nitecore F1 stops charging at 4.08v! Defective?

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yclongthrow
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Nitecore F1 stops charging at 4.08v! Defective?

Hello,
I got a Nitecore F1 from Amazon( Edison bright seller), and it refuses to charge a Panasonic ncr18650a beyond 4.08v and took 4-5 hours to do that. It was hooked up to an iPad power supplier(2.4 amp). Is this unit fake/defective? Is my battery bad?

Thanks

yclongthrow
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Tried a 2600 mah “Soonfire” battery and it only came out to 4.04v. Rather disappointed. Can any F1 owners chime in or have their own measurements?
Thanks

-X3-
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Well, it seems to me that the F1 charges at about 500mA so even if you iPad PS can supply more than 2A it woill not affect the charging time.
Your battery is about 3000mAh, so it will take 3000/500=6 hours to charge it full…
Since the F1 stops below 4,2V (not great Sad ) it takes a little less time

The only problem here is the 4,08V instead of 4,2V

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yclongthrow
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X3 wrote:
Well, it seems to me that the F1 charges at about 500mA so even if you iPad PS can supply more than 2A it woill not affect the charging time.
Your battery is about 3000mAh, so it will take 3000/500=6 hours to charge it full…
Since the F1 stops below 4,2V (not great Sad ) it takes a little less time

The only problem here is the 4,08V instead of 4,2V

That makes sense. I thought I read the F1 had a 1 amp charge rate for the battery but I guess not. Not terminating charge at 4.2v is really bumming me out.

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From Nitecore product page… it only draws 500mA from USB so it won’t push more than 500mA through your battery, sorry

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Pablo E.
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Doesn`t that pic say that 500mA is the minimum it draws?

flydiver
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Batteries WILL drop from the ‘so called….magic…..incredible….holy grail’ 4.2v after you pull them from the charger. HJK has told us that over and over and over again. It ain’t a big deal. Wink My charger do not charge LiIon to 4.2V, is it faulty?
Some VERY respectable authorities have confirmed beyond doubt that you will get MORE LIFE from you cells if you keep the charge like from 20-80% – don’t fully charge, don’t overly discharge. Yet people get their panties in a bunch if they don’t see EXACTLY 4.2000000v after a charge. 0.01v too little or too much and they are all upset.

So, depending on the accuracy of your voltmeter (how accurate is that?) you may be quite close to a decent fill. You certainly aren’t hurting anything and you are giving up almost nothing functionally. Another way of looking at it is that you have a superior charger that is improving the longevity of your cells. Big Smile

OTOH, I have 2 opinions;
1) Come on, that’s a winky little charger that has very limited output. It will always take awhile on high capacity cells. You want a decent charger, get a decent charger.
Is yours defective? Possibly, but only marginally depending on your opinion. HJK has not done a review so I can’t help you there. Cheap chargers get cheaper components and less care in assembly. Being off a bit in this price range is almost to be expected.
2. Soonfire? Are you serious? I’d be surprised if that wasn’t crap, which likely has nothing to do with your charging problem.

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Tarvos
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flydiver wrote:
Batteries WILL drop from the ‘so called….magic…..incredible….holy grail’ 4.2v after you pull them from the charger. HJK has told us that over and over and over again. It ain’t a big deal. Wink
Some VERY respectable authorities have confirmed beyond doubt that you will get MORE LIFE from you cells if you keep the charge like from 20-80% – don’t fully charge, don’t overly discharge. Yet people get their panties in a bunch if they don’t see EXACTLY 4.2000000v after a charge. 0.01v too little or too much and they are all upset.

So, depending on the accuracy of your voltmeter (how accurate is that?) you may be quite close to a decent fill. You certainly aren’t hurting anything and you are giving up almost nothing functionally. Another way of looking at it is that you have a superior charger that is improving the longevity of your cells. Big Smile

OTOH, I have 2 opinions;
1) Come on, that’s a winky little charger that has very limited output. It will always take awhile on high capacity cells. You want a decent charger, get a decent charger.
Is yours defective? Possibly, but only marginally depending on your opinion. HJK has not done a review so I can’t help you there. Cheap chargers get cheaper components and less care in assembly. Being off a bit in this price range is almost to be expected.
2. Soonfire? Are you serious? I’d be surprised if that wasn’t crap, which likely has nothing to do with your charging problem.

All this seems correct. Also the 18650a is a older design cell. Is this one an old cell?

will34
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That seems odd. Nitecore normally makes good chargers.. do you have more cells to try with?

Low termination often means old battery or high internal resistance…

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flydiver wrote:
Batteries WILL drop from the ‘so called….magic…..incredible….holy grail’ 4.2v after you pull them from the charger. HJK has told us that over and over and over again. It ain’t a big deal. Wink My charger do not charge LiIon to 4.2V, is it faulty?

4.04V is way lower than HKJ has measured. A reasonable voltage once settled is still above 4.1 (usually above 4.15).

Anyway, the easy way to determine whether this is a defect is to read the voltage immediately when charging finishes. If it isn’t 4.15V or above, I would RMA the unit.

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Pablo E. wrote:
Doesn`t that pic say that 500mA is the minimum it draws?

To me that says that the available input current must be greater than or equal to 500ma.

The features posted at Illumn says that it will charge at a rate up to 1A (1,000ma).

I have been looking at picking up this charger due to its size and features. Very useful for backpacking multi day trips. Especially when you consider that you could power it with a folding solar panel.

Here is a review that WoodsWalker did over on CPF:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?419997-Nitecore-F1-Flexible-Charger-Review-Field-tested!!

Bob

Quote:

Features

Compatible with cylinder rechargeable Li-ion batteries of various sizes
Intelligent USB charging management system
Up to 1000mA fast charging through Micro-USB input port
1000mA fast charging through USB output port
Optimized design for IMR battery charging circuit
Three power indicators to indicate charging/discharging status
Automatic power level detection
Instant battery voltage indication upon battery installation
Automatic battery detection and appropriate charging voltage/mode selection
Battery reversed polarity protection and short circuit prevention
Made from durable PC material (fire retardant/flame resistant)
Designed for optimal heat dissipation
Certified by RoHS, CE, FCC and CEC
Insured worldwide by Ping An Insurance (Group) Company of China, Ltd.
Specifications:
Input voltage: DC 5V, >=500mA
Output voltage: 4.2V +- 1% (slot), 5V +-5% (USB)
Output current: 1000mA (slot), 1000mA (USB)

Dimensions: 3.43” × 0.94” × 1.15” (87.2mm x 24mm x 29.3mm)
Weight: 1.07oz / 30.4g (without batteries and power cord)

http://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/nitecore-f1-flexbank-usb-li-ion-charger-and-powerbank.html

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CalvinIS
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Yes it's supposed to charge at 1.0A if you provide it with enough power. What are you using to measure the battery voltage? Have you tried a different USB wall adapter?

 

Output: 1000mA MAX (slot), 1000mA MAX (usb)

 

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flydiver
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juaquin wrote:
flydiver wrote:
Batteries WILL drop from the ‘so called….magic…..incredible….holy grail’ 4.2v after you pull them from the charger. HJK has told us that over and over and over again. It ain’t a big deal. Wink My charger do not charge LiIon to 4.2V, is it faulty?

4.04V is way lower than HKJ has measured. A reasonable voltage once settled is still above 4.1 (usually above 4.15).

Anyway, the easy way to determine whether this is a defect is to read the voltage immediately when charging finishes. If it isn’t 4.15V or above, I would RMA the unit.

4.04v is the Soonfire. I’d consider that battery suspect until proven otherwise. The Panasonic was 4.08. HJK indicated in the linked review that things generally settle down to 4.1something. Seems to me the charger is not off much more than 0.05-0.08, again depending on the accuracy of the voltmeter.

The unit costs $10. I personally wouldn’t bother with RMA at that price range unless the seller would simply replace it.

***
Looks to me like the unit charges the battery at 0.5A. Used as a powerbank it will output up to 1.0A.

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INPUT
DC 5V, ≥500mA

OUTPUT
4.2V±1% (slot)/5V±5% (USB), 1000mA MAX (slot)/1000mA (USB)

http://charger.nitecore.com/product/f1

Do your MATH !

Input is 5v @ 500mA
That is 2.5watts to play with .. So charge current is very dependent on the state of the battery …..
So the battery voltage determines charge rate ( Remember we have 2.5watts to play with )
So http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Watt_to_Amp_Calculator.htm
Do some math …

Amps = Watts devided by Volts

So we have 2.5 of those watts , divide it by Voltage and you should be left with charge current less any losses inherent in the charger …

( Again don’t forget those nasty variables )

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CalvinIS
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old4570 wrote:
INPUT DC 5V, ≥500mA OUTPUT 4.2V±1% (slot)/5V±5% (USB), 1000mA MAX (slot)/1000mA (USB) http://charger.nitecore.com/product/f1 Do your MATH ! Input is 5v @ 500mA That is 2.5watts to play with .. So charge current is very dependent on the state of the battery ..... So the battery voltage determines charge rate ( Remember we have 2.5watts to play with ) So http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Watt_to_Amp_Calculator.htm Do some math ... Amps = Watts devided by Volts So we have 2.5 of those watts , divide it by Voltage and you should be left with charge current less any losses inherent in the charger ...

I believe Nitecore says input ≥500mA because the charger can still charge at a reduced rate if you only give it 500mA like some slow ports/chargers.

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yclongthrow
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I’ve charged both the Soonfire and ncr18650a to 4.2v volts in a Nitecore I4 charger. With the F1 I tried the regular 1 amp iPhone power adapter and a 2.4 amp iPad adapter, multiple micro-USB wires, and even tried a few different wall outlets. Nothing helped.

old4570
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CalvinIS wrote:

old4570 wrote:
INPUT DC 5V, ≥500mA OUTPUT 4.2V±1% (slot)/5V±5% (USB), 1000mA MAX (slot)/1000mA (USB) http://charger.nitecore.com/product/f1 Do your MATH ! Input is 5v @ 500mA That is 2.5watts to play with .. So charge current is very dependent on the state of the battery ….. So the battery voltage determines charge rate ( Remember we have 2.5watts to play with ) So http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Watt_to_Amp_Calculator.htm Do some math … Amps = Watts devided by Volts So we have 2.5 of those watts , divide it by Voltage and you should be left with charge current less any losses inherent in the charger …

I believe Nitecore says input ≥500mA because the charger can still charge at a reduced rate if you only give it 500mA like some slow ports/chargers.

Charger can certainly charge at a lower rate … —-
It can not how ever generate more power out , than goes in ( and on paper that’s 2.5Watt )

Again not taking into consideration lots of nasty variables …

But lets say your battery is at a resting voltage of 3v because you had too ..

2.5watt divided by 3 volts = 0.833333333 ………… Amps ( not taking into consideration lots of possible variables )

At 3.5v = 0.715 A
At 4v = 0.625 A
4.1 = 0.61 A

These are not actual figures , but rather paper figures based on Claims by manufacturer ( Maximum ) , and there will be lots of variables that will change these figures in the real world ..

I would suggest something like a Charge doctor to monitor the charger , at lest you will know Voltage and Amps going in to the charger … ( Ball park – variable being accuracy / quality of the Charge Doctor )

Those nasty variables !

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The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

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“≥” means “greater than or equal to”

yclongthrow
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Anyone else test their F1?
Thanks

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yclongthrow wrote:
Anyone else test their F1? Thanks

I got mine from Banggood. It will only charge up to 4.12 volts on some cells and only up to 3.86(!) volts on others.
I left the cells in the F1 for more than 8 hours. Btw, my cells are all good quality ones

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jacc
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yclongthrow wrote:
Anyone else test their F1? Thanks

I got my F1 but i havent got my batteries, will do as soon as I get them and update. regs

yclongthrow
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I’ve gotten anywhere from 4.04v to 4.09v, could possibly be even lower on some of my older cells which I haven’t tested. Would you guys return the product at this point or no? I kind of tore the packaging up lol

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yclongthrow wrote:
I’ve gotten anywhere from 4.04v to 4.09v, could possibly be even lower on some of my older cells which I haven’t tested. Would you guys return the product at this point or no? I kind of tore the packaging up lol

It was supposed to charge to 4.2v. Since it doesn’t behave the way it’s described you should be able return it or get a replacement under warranty.

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My floor sample stopped at 4.18V which is within the 1% tolerance advertised. And yes it charges at 1A. 

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yclongthrow
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4.18v is totally acceptable, I wonder if the rest of us received bunk units.

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yclongthrow wrote:
I’ve gotten anywhere from 4.04v to 4.09v, could possibly be even lower on some of my older cells which I haven’t tested. Would you guys return the product at this point or no? I kind of tore the packaging up lol

Yeah.. me too. In my haste I threw away all the (external) packaging.
Now BG wants me to register for a replacement with photos of the packaging etc.
Don’t know if I am able to…

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I have a UM10 and a UM20. Have tried using the Apple and Samsung wall warts as a power supply and neither worked well. Switched over to an Anker powerport 5 and all problems disappeared. It charges the UM20 with two 18650’s, two tablets and a phone all at the same time fully to 100%. Anker’s car charger works flawlessly too

Apple and Samsung make great phones, but their wall chargers leave something to be desired IMO.

jacc
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jacc wrote:
yclongthrow wrote:
Anyone else test their F1? Thanks

I got my F1 but i havent got my batteries, will do as soon as I get them and update. regs

Just got my batteries yesterday and tested immediately for you. Mine stops at 4.18 as well. When I insert it into the Liitokala Li500 it reads 4.18. Less than 10 secs or charging, the voltage changes to 4.20v. I guess that was the termination voltage (4.2) and the rest voltage (4.18) of my Sanyo GA.

Hope that helps. PS: Maybe you should use a powerful USB 5v charger, rated 2A? I used a Huawei tablet 2A charger and got this results.

jacc
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Ok my turn to ask a question, hope you guys dont mine.

When fully charge, it only shows 2 LED lit up at 4.2V. Even when I am using as powerbank, it’s 2 LED instead of 3. Other reviews says it’s 3. Anyone has any idea why?

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I have two of these chargers and mine work as described by Nitecore.

I have a usb power meter which gives voltage and amps readings and chargers that I have reduced the amps quite a bit when near terminal voltage.

My F1 charges at .5 amps at the start and goes down to .18 amps or lower at termination. Termination at 4.2 volts is NOT a gold standard.

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The first battery charged by my new F1 – 4.14V.

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