Jaxman Z1 Discussion

We have people here that take the shelf to a mirror finish. I personally don’t like to as it prohibits the Arctic Alumina Thermal Adhesive from adhering to the slick surface and can allow the mcpcb to shift once heated. It is certainly easier to remove a glued mcpcb from a mirror polished shelf.

So I tend to focus more on how flat it is and not worry much about some slight surface imperfections. I REALLY don’t like a dimple directly under the emitter from a pre-drill situation being plunged too deeply.

Miller, I appreciate it but really I’m just a hack still. I can manage to make something that works, Hoop can make it look like Art. :wink:

I think you already have nearly 60% more thermal mass. Copper and Brass are much the same, per gram. I’ll do an estimate c.f. Aluminium tomorrow.

PS: Aluminium has by far the best specific heat of any metal. Over twice that of copper. But being so much less dense, it takes a much larger volume of it.

Plain old water of course, is more than four times better, and if allowed to change phase (into steam) vastly more so.

Steampunk extreme torches ?

With the exception of Magnesium and of course Beryllium, yes Aluminum is up there pretty high. But like Magnesium, the weight or mass is so low that it’s disproportionate for real world usage in many cases. Made the same size, copper blows the doors off virtually anything else commonly available. I did some testing concerning this a couple of years ago with the Trinity in C8’s, once the copper was brought into the picture prolonged high output and run time (output at life of cell) really showed the difference.

Water will come to play in a handheld flashlight, sure enough, it’s just a matter of time. Pretty sure Bucket already did that, some time back. But it’ll happen as we continue to see improvements in LED’s and the power supplies that run em.

Yes, you got me there.

Practical magnesium alloys , not much difference.

Beryllium, well, yes. But the toxicity, and expense.

That’s why it even was banned from Formula One.

But until then, was the thing for brake callipers, for those who could afford it, and handle it safely.

Nevermind inside the engine, e.g.

Hank is sending me his Z1 so I’ll get some pills worked out pretty soon. :smiley: I’ll be sending it back with a copper pill in it.

The tooling marks visible in photographs of my pills probably give the impression of a rough surface, so I mentioned the fingernail test just to say that you can’t feel any roughness even though you can see distinct tooling marks because of how they interact with light. As for what is really necessary for production standards, I’d say just flat and fairly smooth. A normal finish facing pass with a decent insert should accomplish this in a matter of seconds on a lathe, but that seems out of reach for a lot of manufacturers. :confounded:

Hi,

I used an 17-20mm Adapter for the LD-1 driver instead of piggypack it which fits perfect in my Z1.

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_72&product_id=672

But a little extra weight with copper is welcome :wink:

Regards

Kenjii

I have a question about tooling marks, or even slight minute tooling ridges that one could actually feel with a fingernail in the MCPCB pocket of the pill. ( I am not talking about super grossly rough tooling marks mind you ).

If it they were flat, would the slightly rough tooling ridges along with a proper amount of Arctic Silver 5 Premium not give better heat transfer from the MCPBC to the pill than if it were smooth.

My though is the slight tooling ridges would indeed give more surface area for the heat to be transferred from the MCPCB to the pill, by way of the Arctic Silver 5 Premium of course. That is my theory anyway, same as cooling fins on the outside of the light dissipates much more heat than a smooth surface with no fins.

Yeah, the super smooth and polished pockets on the pills look very nice indeed… I agree with that. But, they also have less surface area to transfer the heat to than a pocket with slight tooling ridges.

Just my thoughts…….

No
Article silver is purely for filling tiny gaps.
The smoother the better since less paste is needed.

Hi, I did the resistor mod on the stock Z1 XHP50! As I only had a R100 at hand this was added to the original R150, giving a total of 0.06 Ohm instead of 0.15 Ohm on high.

Tailcap readings BEFORE:
L:0.05A M:0.5A H:2.5A

Tailcap readings AFTER:
L:0.05A M: 0.5A H:5A

I shaved the XHP50 at the same time so I can only say it got a significantly brighter projection :slight_smile:

Thermal paste is nowhere near as effective as a good metal to metal contact.
There are some adhesion losses with a mirror finish, but this usually doesn’t mean a lot to us inside a flashlight. For a light like the Z1 there is a cover plate that holds the emitter/mcpcb down so it’s not likely to move even if dropped or hard use EDC.

The key to a paste at optimum efficiency is filling microscopic differences, eliminating air. I tend to use the microprocessor instructions and apply a small ball of paste in the center, then lay the mcpcb on top and press it so that the paste spreads out. The trick here is to use enough without using too much, but even if too much is applied a good bit of pressure can push it out and the excess removed. Too little and there are air gaps around the periphery of the mcpcb.

Some small tooling ridges from a fast feed aren’t particularly of issue, as long as the surface is flat and true… true being important so the emitter faces the optic as perfectly as possible. What has to be weighed is the ability to reduce these marks while maintaining a flat true surface, it’s all too easy to mess up the paradigm while trying to improve surface contact, trading one issue for a more serious flaw.

Maybe maybe not. Tiny gaps are what I am referring to.

Does this stuff, Arctic Silver 5 Premium; actually transfer heat or not? I think it does… but how good does it? That I do not know yet, but I shall find out by calling them right now. :+1:

EDIT: / Just called them they are closed for facility maintenance this week reopen 11 July 2016.

The Liquid Pro made with Gallium is a metal that’s liquid at room temp and hardens or solidifies at higher temps, might go that route if you have copper to brass, it’ll eat aluminum though.

DB, does it re liquefy after the first “heat” cycle? If so, will it stay in place or be so liquid that it would migrate to unwanted places?

EDIT: Whoa, several post just showed up before my last two………. :person_facepalming: … I’ll read them now.

Yes it does transfer heat thats what it is for :wink:

Keep in mind a high end computer CPU running at 125/150W having a much lager area then a led star needs no more thermal grease about the size of s small grain of rice.
The Thorfire S50 I took the LED star out to send it to Maukka for some test, the amount of grease was perfect.
Lots of flashlights have way too much, it feels comforting to see dabs of the stuff.
When a star is pulled just some small ridges of paste should be there, when it is a full covring disc, too much.

The paste is only necessary to fill out the imperfections.

Anything more than that is counter-productive.

The thermal conductivity of Arctic Silver V, which is well regarded, is claimed to be 8.7 W/(m·K).

By comparison, brass is 111, aluminium 204, copper 386, silver 407 (higher number = better).

63/37 SnPb solder, 50

Unless the surface finish is so good that e.g. the parts can be “wrung” together like gauging blocks, some sort of interface compound is probably necessary. Any microscopic air-gap will be worse than, I suggest, than even the poorest thermal compounds.

But soldering the parts together does seem to be, at least theoretically, a very good method indeed.

Wait WHAT ?!
Please tell me more.
Here I am thinking solid liquid gas plasma is the order and based on temp
You rock my world here
Off to go googling this mighty interesting phenomena, thanks Dale!

I think you may find that the gallium stuff is something like Galinstan alloy, molten at room temperature.

You spread it on, then once you heat it beyond about 80 C it may fuse with the heatsink materials, re-alloy, lose it’s low melting point properties, and set into a permanent bond.

With some rather reactive properties. Think of it as a very low melting point solder paste.

There are other metal alloys with interesting low melting points that might also be of use, e.g. Woods metal, and Rose’s metal.

Rose’s metal seems to have better potential, melts at about 100 C, and doesn’t contain anything particularly toxic. Certainly no Gallium, or Cadmium.

Just finished XHP35 using FX35. Used 10mm sinkpad and D4 5000K. So far Nice! Single cell Thorfire 5000ma protected. It went together very well and right at focus. I stripped the XHP70 and driver for this one. No problems with pill. I did lightly sand again minor wobble at center. Used a round centering ring which also acts as an insulator for the 10mm Tpad. Measurements later and seriously…pics. I now add the insulator disk (milk jug) to the spring side of any 26650s as you know why. I like this Z1 series so much days ago I did order another in XHP50. Love the no drama part. After dark will change cells to BASEN 4K and after that beef the driver up a notch. Signed: newguy learning

:+1: …. Sounds great!