Ultrafire XM-L 3 mode P60 drop in from Manafont

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old4570
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Ultrafire XM-L 3 mode P60 drop in from Manafont

 

1002737z.jpg

 

For testing I have the Ultrafire XM-L T6 P60 drop in from Manafont ,  http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/ultrafire-cree-t6-3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max-p-5178

 

Already I like it , simply due to it having no bl-inky modes  . 

 

 

 

1002739s.jpg1002741.jpg

1002743d.jpg

 

Now I wrapped the drop in , in my Gunmetal grey Solarforce L2 , which used to be SSC P7 . But with the release of the XM-L , the SSC P7 has become almost redundant . I like this drop in very much , 3 modes , Hi - Med - Lo , and no insane blinky modes . Now this drop in does suffer from heat sag , and quite a bit of it at that , but the starting output is really good , unfortunately it simply cant hold it [ more latter ] . The smooth reflector does offer a very nice beam , but no better or worse for that matter than the OP reflectors offer , I will test and see if it offers more throw .


  I had no issues with the drop in , and it seems to be working fine , I wrapped it in Al-foil and made sure it was a very snug fit in the host .  And after 2 minutes on high , it did get warm , I expect it will heat up a flashlight very much like a good performing SSC P7 , which means after 5 minutes on high , the host will most likely be hot , very hot . Now in all fairness the Medium setting offers more than enough light for everyday use + better current and run time , as does low , in fact with this one low is around 60 Lumen + or - depending on the individual cell used . I can honestly say , save high for showing off , this one puts out something like 350Lumen [ again depending on individual battery performance ] on medium , that is a lot of output , especially for medium , and around 1A current draw . 


Next some performance figures . 


Output is dependent on the cell used and the condition of the cell [ charge ] , I used two cells for testing , Panasonic 2900 and Solarforce V2 18650 .



Multimeter results = Panasonic 

High = 3.4A

Med = 1A

Low = 0.17A


Multimeter results = Solarforce 18650 [ V2 ] 


High = 3.39A

Med = 0.91A

Low = 0.16A


Light box results = 

High = 1100+ turned on sags to 900+ within seconds 

Medium = 340 to 355L

Low = 50 to 65L 


Measuring the sag on high .


Start = 1100+ sags to 900+ within 2 seconds 

15 seconds = 915L

30 seconds = 860L

60 seconds = 845L

2 minutes = 815L 


Holly smoke , 1100+ on start @ 3.4A [ and possibly more ] , Im going to have to see about possibly re-mounting the emitter , and see if I cant stabilize the output a bit higher .. Still , an awful lot of sag , some 300L of sag , thats more output lost than most XR-E flashlights are capable of producing .  I love the fact its 3 mode , blinky modes @ 800L are just annoying , so if you have to buy a XM-L drop in , well , look at this one . 


  I just love this drop in , its has potential . Im going to see what I can do about improving the heatsinking for the emitter , and I really hope Manafont can procure the 3 mode driver for re sale , so we can use it in DIY projects , I really like this driver .

So if anyone at Manafont reads this , please get this driver for us .  


So far all the XM-L 's I have [ T6 - P60 drop ins ] seem to be doing about 800L , maybe less , so even with high current , they just dont seem to hold much over 800L once things settle , so at this time , the question begs , why drive them so hard ?  2 to 2.5A seems to be the sweet spot .  Anyhow , this drop in Rocks  , the driver is great , where has this driver been ?

Please Manafont , get this driver for us .  


  Bottom line = I like this drop in , especially the fact its 3 mode [ with memory ] , High - Medium - Low , it puts out a lot of light , but suffers from sag , stabilizing around 800L , Low and medium offer good output at much reduced current consumption . Its good to see some one offering an alternative to the usual run of blinky rubbish , and I am very happy with this drop in .  

 

Now lets talk about throw , my best XR-E R2 P60 did 11200Lux @ 1 meter today , this XM-L did 13000Lux [ and dropping due to sag ] , and my DIY pill [ XM-L ] seemed to be holding about 13200Lux . The XM-L will not hold the focus though as it will flood out at longer distances , while the XR-E will maintain the spot [ hotspot @ centre of beam ] much better over longer distances . But still , that is a lot of power in the center of the beam [ XM-L ] , and the XM-L does throw rather well , but with all that flood , I guess it can be a little hard to notice .  

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

Edited by: old4570 on 01/19/2011 - 07:28
Budgeteer
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It is really the heat that sags the emitter initially? 2 sec seems very quick for heat related problems... If someone has a way to try the dropin with 3-4 18650 in parallel to put the battery out of the question...

kragmutt wrote:

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old4570
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That fast its 2 things ...

1/ Too much current to the emitter 

2/ Emitter not transferring heat to base/star quickly enough [ could be poorly or not as well mounted as it could possibly be ] 

Or a combination ...  The current does not back of , but rather increases slowly , another sure sign that the emitter is heating up ..

So initially , the current is 3.3A but increases quickly to 3.4A , and then holds ... 

I think the XM-L is best @ 2 - 2.5A  , [ no heat sag or over current ] , perhaps they will mature with time , and tolerate more current .  

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

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Perhaps finding a good hi-med-lo 2,4A driver would be best. /7amc could be near that.

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

old4570
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I might see about swapping drivers perhaps , might put it into my DIY build as it seems not to suffer from sag .. 

I just hope Manafont can source the driver for DIY . 

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

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Ive been unable to find a suitable one recently. I thought gettign the 8xAMC circuit board from KD and desolder/bridge over one amc... not skilled enough to know what em i exactly doing. It seems a bit logical to remove one amc but on the other hand i could eventualy f****up everything. XD

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

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Best driver for me would be 2,7V-8.4V, linear, with output for 2400/2500mA, 1200mA, and around 150/250mA with good memory implementation. Im in for 5pcs if it gets done (at least).

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

old4570
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I havent seen more than 2.4A from the KD driver .. I think you would be safe with it ... 

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

Don
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Here's an animated GIF of the Ultrafire and KD dropins

Comparison shot

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

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I just got my Manafont XM-L dropin today.

3.38A on high with a fresh charged Flame Trustfire 18650... very nice indeed. Its home is in a shinny new 504B. Thanks Old!

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Don thanks for that animated gif, but the image doesn't appear to loop. Tried it in 2 major web browsers. Interesting still.

 

Eagerly awaiting my Manafont Ultrafire drop-in. KD one arrived yesterday, my first, but that's for another thread. Thermally potted it tonight using DX 'thermal glue, grease-like'. That was fun (not). At least it's over. My aim is to be able to still remove the reflector. I noticed the sag too even though my KD one draws less current, I think due to my batteries and there's still sag. In my mind it's from heat, and someone here did a thermal potting using thermal epoxy (and only a little bit) and pretty much proved that. Batteries do sag too though. But he proved the thermal potting helped substantially and it seems like the major cause.

- Circumcision, regardless gender, by definition causes sensation loss, and thereby usually causes difficulty later in life. Oppose amputation of children's genitals. ALL children. http://tinyurl.com/haszs6o

Don
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brjones wrote:

Don thanks for that animated gif, but the image doesn't appear to loop. Tried it in 2 major web browsers. Interesting still.

 

It isn't for me either though it was working before. I've made a new one.

XM-L Comparison

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

fishinfool
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Aloha  old4570, now that you've had this for a while, do you still like it as much as you did as stated above? 

I'm thinking about getting a couple.  I really like the fact that it doesn't come with any blinky modes.  Thanks.

 

Don wrote:

"But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion

old4570
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yeah , I like it plenty ..  One of my favorites , 

ATM I reach for either this one , or my DIY build on a XP-E reflector , or the RL-198 [ XP-G R5 and no blinky modes ] 

I hardly touch or give a second thought to my XR-E's any longer , not that there not nice , but the XM-L , wow , it just ...........  Blows everything away . 

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

fishinfool
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old4570 wrote:

yeah , I like it plenty ..  One of my favorites , 

ATM I reach for either this one , or my DIY build on a XP-E reflector , or the RL-198 [ XP-G R5 and no blinky modes ] 

I hardly touch or give a second thought to my XR-E's any longer , not that there not nice , but the XM-L , wow , it just ...........  Blows everything away . 

Sold! I was going to get 2 of them but now maybe I should get one for each of my p60 lights which is 6.  Hmmmmmmmmmmm......  Decisions, decisions, decisions.....Undecided

Thanks old.

 

Don wrote:

"But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion

brted
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I like mine too, but I wouldn't get rid of my XP-G's. It is a little too much light on full brightness, great for lighting up an area but not great for seeing ahead. I tend to use my lights in short bursts to see what's up front, but with this one, you get blinded.

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brted wrote:

I like mine too, but I wouldn't get rid of my XP-G's. It is a little too much light on full brightness, great for lighting up an area but not great for seeing ahead. I tend to use my lights in short bursts to see what's up front, but with this one, you get blinded.

That makes sense so 2 it is.........for now. :bigsmile:

Thanks for knocking some sense into me brted.

 

Don wrote:

"But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion

old4570
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Well , I dis agree ... Sorry ..

Blinded ????  If your in a hole and its pitch dark and you turn on a XM-L , I can see that ..

But if your walking around with a XM-L and change into high mode , not really , it will affect your night vision some , but so will any flashlight ..

Thing is , if you want to see , a XM-L on high will let you see everything out to 200 Meters or so [ dep on variables ] 

I love mine , there just impossibly fantastic on high , for a walk around light , you would not really need more than low mode ...

Mine is 50+L on low , walk around with that and changing into high is not going to blind you , though I would pity anyone looking directly at it [ XM-L ] when on high . 

I guess this is all about personal perception .. 

Buy one , check it out , Im currently on 6 XM-L's .. Hopefully a 7th soon .

KD has run out of the 3 mode driver I liked , hmmm , so ATM Im sitting on several emitters , just thinking about what light to mod next . 

 Always remember , the easiest thing in the world to do , is to expel hot air from your lungs and through some vocal chords ..
The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

fishinfool
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I just bought 2 for now and I'm pretty sure I'll love them since I love lights that are really bright.  I'll also probably give the other one to Norm to go in the wf-502b kit I gave him.

Don wrote:

"But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion

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I just recieved mine today! love the no blinky modes. I dropped it into my solarforce L2i. Absolutely blown away by the light output on this thing. Now to dig up some aluminum foil to wrap it in Smile 

 

And now to find another nice p60 body to put the R5 drop-in into, that I removed from the solarforce. Perhaps I'll order another solarforce, I am really liking the quality!

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I purchased one around 24th Jan and it still has not arrived. I'm guessing the delay is due to the Chinese new year. How many weeks after purchases was it for yours to arrive?

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Mine seemed to take forever from Manafont. I don't remember the date, but it was listed as shipped before the Chinese new year set in, and I just got it a few days ago. I'm thinking about 5 weeks, not sure. I've learned to develop the patience of a saint waiting for shipments from Asia. But this was my hardest one ever, and I think the longest one (which still arrived). Bummer to check your mailbox tens of times straight, and not have it be there. 4 weeks is standard from DX. Stuff from Singapore sometimes gets here sooner. Considering mine was shipped pre Chinese new year, I don't know what the hold-up is. Do the Chinese shipping companies even go on holiday??

 

XM-L's are fantastic and I am an evangelist prognosticator, and in a relative sense, they are really bright, but on an objective level, well, I think there's room to grow... lots. I hear people using the term "blinded" and "don't look straight at it". In broad daylight, I can look at my XM-L on high. Sure I get spots for a bit, and my pupils are already constricted, but then again the reflector is focusing all those lumens at me too. I admit I haven't done that with the smooth Manafont one, just the KD one which is OP and wider hotspot... and draws almost an amp less on high! That super-bright mode doesn't last long at all... and my charger only goes to 4.11 volts anyway.

 

Anyone complaining about high mode could simply run XM-L at medium which is still 300+ lumens, like an XP-G on high but like half the draw. XP-G has a wider beam pattern though--better for walks, definitely (from experience), but ONLY superior in that one area, IMO. That is the ONLY reason I'd consider holding onto my XP-G drop-in and not passing it to a friend. Great for walks. XM-L is neither wide nor narrow beam. Kind of awkward that way... (esp the KD one). Being picky, I think I'd rather have it go more in either direction: throwy or floody, I care not. OTOH you could come back and say the beam is 'balanced', but I'm starting to think that emitters should have kind of a defined purpose or goal. (Mainly: throw or flood.)

 

I stil... really want to see a nude XM-L operating indoors in "candle" or "full flood" mode, like on a headlamp or just an open, reflectorless flashlight with the head removed. If true at around 800L, that should look similar to a 50-60 W incan lamp. The head on my damned Spiderfire P7 is glued on so tight, that even after backing the f-er and ruining the finish, I still can't get the head off to get candle mode. If I could, I'd so be upgrading the star on that thing. (I can screw the bezel off and remove the reflector, but a significant amount of light is blocked by the sides.) Almost bought a nearly identical XM-L-equipped C8 just b/c the photos showed the pieces unglued and apart. But I can't find anything with a smooth reflector AND! 3 non-blinky modes.   Okay.. the Yezl Y6 at CnQualityGoods.com does fit the bill, but the reports of the driver only drawing 2.0 to 2.5 amps on high (varied reports), killed the deal for me. The XM-L is very nice at 2 amps, but it's something new at 3. Any reports of these being driven over 10 watts? I still want one and what I've seen online looks nice. I also wonder if the tailcap can interchange with the C8 (which I assume is also interchangeable with WF-500 and many others).

- Circumcision, regardless gender, by definition causes sensation loss, and thereby usually causes difficulty later in life. Oppose amputation of children's genitals. ALL children. http://tinyurl.com/haszs6o

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The "no blinkie modes" sold me. All these XM-L's put out massive light, so I wasnt to concerned about which dropin was the brightest. After others tested theirs, it seems to be the brightest dropin of the bunch. I also prefer the SMO reflector. Thanks Manafont! You guys rock! Im very pleased with mine, but my C8 from KD is still a lot brighter and has a far better beam and more spill (thanks to its larger and more efficient reflector). It also has much better heat sinking for a little more weight and size over a P60. Not knocking the XM-L P60 by any means. Id buy this one again any day.

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fishinfool wrote:

I just bought 2 for now and I'm pretty sure I'll love them since I love lights that are really bright.  I'll also probably give the other one to Norm to go in the wf-502b kit I gave him.

Norm is ganna love you for that. Just be aware that you're going to turn the poor guy into a complete flashaholic. Unfortunately and as of yet, there seems to be no cure for this horrible contagious disease.

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I have around 5 XM-L dropins atm and 2 of those are 3mode H-M-L from manafont that are easily the best of all in my posession. It is definitely a higher grade dropin than usually found around. Best paired with KD multicoated lenses and a decent battery since current draws at high are well above 3A on both i have. I decided getting lower end 18650 isn't for me when i tried a few good cells. The price difference is low so you might want to have better cells than the cheapest findable around. For current draws up to 1A you can get away with pretty much anything. For higher current, better made cells are my sincere reccomendation. Old is our best guru on everything rechargable so you may want to check his tests and act accordingly. Smile

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

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FlashPilot wrote:

fishinfool wrote:

I just bought 2 for now and I'm pretty sure I'll love them since I love lights that are really bright.  I'll also probably give the other one to Norm to go in the wf-502b kit I gave him.

Norm is ganna love you for that. Just be aware that you're going to turn the poor guy into a complete flashaholic. Unfortunately and as of yet, there seems to be no cure for this horrible contagious disease.

LOL  I can't wait to show him the difference between the XML and the CREE Q5 that's in the UltraFire WF-502B I gave him.  Maybe I should get him a different P60 host so he can still use the Q5 instead of having a p60 drop-in just lying around.

 

Don wrote:

"But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion

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I just drop mine into the solarforce l2i too today! Got the body more than a month ago, only got the drop-in last week and the cells today...wow..XML...really really impresive but it's getting warmer and warmer by the minute even after foil wrap around.

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skulless wrote:

I just drop mine into the solarforce l2i too today! Got the body more than a month ago, only got the drop-in last week and the cells today...wow..XML...really really impresive but it's getting warmer and warmer by the minute even after foil wrap around.

 

after seeing the stats on the xml anything above 2.8a isn't really beneficial and will just generate more heat..reason why I am leaving my 2.8a driver alone and not bumping it to 3.1a etc..at 3.4a heat is going to be a major factor..hell even at 2.8a it's a big factor lol

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Someone did mention that the sweet spot is around 2,4A driven XM-L for a smallish flashlight like p60 hosts.

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

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Budgeteer wrote:

Someone did mention that the sweet spot is around 2,4A driven XM-L for a smallish flashlight like p60 hosts.

 

yeah if you look at arenat's measurements it's pretty clear anything over 2.6a isn't doing much other than adding heat and very little lumens..not worth it in a p60 host..

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fishinfool wrote:

I just bought 2 for now and I'm pretty sure I'll love them since I love lights that are really bright.  I'll also probably give the other one to Norm to go in the wf-502b kit I gave him.

I finally got a yellow padded envelope in the mail today and noticed it was from Manafont.  I knew it was the 2 - Ultrafire Cree T6 3-Mode Memory LED Drop-in's I ordered last month on 2-24 so up the stairs I go.  Opened up the package:

2 - Ultrafire (sku 5720) plastic boxes with xml p60 drop-in = CHECK

I put the 1st one in my UF-502B with freshly charged TF flame, turned it on and what a bright friggin' light = CHECK

Started to switch modes = FAIL = they sent me a single mode. Yell

Checked on the 2nd one = FAIL = another single mode YellYellYell

Oh well, it was just too good to bet true right?

Now I start the friggin' return process bulls**t YellYellYell

I should've spent the extra money and got a Thrunite xml from SBFlashlights or some other stateside company.  F**k, F**k, F**k, F**k, F**k..... 

This s**t just pisses me off more so today than any other.......

 

 

Don wrote:

"But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion

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