Test / Review: "Himax 2600" 18650 batteries from "pingyi.co.ltd" on eBay (very poor results)

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wshyang
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Test / Review: "Himax 2600" 18650 batteries from "pingyi.co.ltd" on eBay (very poor results)

As a continuation of an earlier thread I started, the discharge test results for the batch of 12 I received is as follows:

The test results are definitely not anything like HKJ’s review

My batteries were ordered from this eBay listing on the 25th July, so it is possible that since HKJ’s review something has changed in their battery formulation.

Close examination of the batteries will also reveal the text “US18650GR” or “MEHM4CA” showing through the white shrink wrap used on the Himax cells, indicated that the underlying cells are from either Sanyo or Sony.

Judging from the discharge performance, they are almost certainly recycled laptop cells.

Testing is done by charging each cell up on a Xtar SP2 @ 1A and then discharged at 2.5A using a West Mountain Radio CBA IV.

I am very disappointed by the results.

A copy of my test result data file (you can open this with the CBA software freely available for download on the West Mountain Radio site) can be obtained from here

And below is a copy of the message I sent the seller when I opened the dispute:

Quote:
Hello Sir,

I just received the batteries and had a chance to test them, and they are no where near the 2600 mAh batteries that I paid for and am expecting to receive.

I trust that you are a upright and trustworthy dealer. The WOW and now Himax batteries you sell are reviewed by people in the community and said to be good, that was why I trusted you. However I am very disappointed by what I received.

The test results I obtained and my test methodology are outlined and detailed here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/12756

The batteries were tested on a state of the art West Mountain Radio battery analyser and are really falsely advertised. In fact, I suspect you are selling batteries recycled from laptop packs and trying to pass them off as new.

As the batteries were used during the test process and some of them will be disassembled to gather more information for the community on why the performance is so poor, I am willing to settle for a partial refund. Only half of the batteries perform above 2300 mAh (not even match your advertised 2600 mAh) and 2 of them are completely spoilt, so I think a partial refund of 50% will be acceptable.

If this is not acceptable, I will simply escalate the issue with Mastercard and give them the items, thereby receiving a full refund, while you will then need to make arrangements to collect your items from them AND pay Paypal for any credit card chargeback fees that will be incurred.

I sincerely hope you are a upright and trustworthy seller, and I hope this incident is a result of you getting deceived by your supplier. If you are willfully out to deceive us with your products, I will be sure to let everyone know.

Thank you.

Edited by: sb56637 on 08/26/2014 - 17:45
wshyang
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Update: I just received an email from their representative

Quote:
From: 孙桂花 pingyi06@gmail.com

Good afternoon,this is marketing department,Pingyi.(ebay ID:pingyi.co.ltd)

Two hours ago, we received your paypal email,About our battery Hi-Max 18650 2600mAh,Our manager is very attention,Our engineers have gone to the factory,If this batch of product is really quality problems,We will strictly punishment related personnel, and resolutely solve these problems,Thank you very much for your feedback information,If you have the products actual test data,A copy to us, we will be very grateful,thanks!

About refund,If this is the case,Except freight,we will Full refund to you 40USD ,thanks again for your feddback information!

Best wishes,

Marketing Department,PINGYI Group.

Not sure what’s really happening, but if you purchased any cells from them lately I’d strongly urge you to check it against a known good cell and see if it is performing as it should.

Perhaps the recent quality problems might be due to someone else doing PINGYI the shadey.

Hikelite
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Would you try cell number 8 again? 

wshyang
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Hikelite wrote:

Would you try cell number 8 again? 

Why cell 8 in particular?

I was actually intending to recheck the “poor” cells just to be doubly sure that they really are so poor, but my charger and CBA are currently tied up with other cells.

Hikelite
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wshyang wrote:
Hikelite wrote:

Would you try cell number 8 again? 

Why cell 8 in particular? I was actually intending to recheck the "poor" cells just to be doubly sure that they really are so poor, but my charger and CBA are currently tied up with other cells.

Just because it looked a bit too hectic, I hope you are not having contact issues. 

Actually it's a good thing to double check these very poor results.

wshyang
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Yeap, I will. I want to be doubly sure of the results too, I have never see very many behave this way under testing before, except for some very old laptop cells.

Ecig
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Ive teste djust 3 out of twelve with 1A to 2,8V, and all had arounf 2200mAh I think. I didnt test the others didnt had time nor will.

Now sein gthese tests I feel I have to check them all, if some cells have even 2 times lower capacity than others!! They are even worse than I thought Shocked
And I intended to use them in some higher current flashlights and in bike lights for longer runtime Shocked

I didnt intend to ask any refund, but now Im not so sure anymore, if some bad from the batch are so bad, and if the batch is so unconsistent

bose301s
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Well, at the very least it appears they are taking the claims seriously, hopefully they actually are.

jaynick
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great after 6 months of being on the fence i ordered 12 of these things Oops

rikr
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I talked with Shane at The Pro-Tactical Shop and he is going to peel the wrapper back on some and check them but he won’t be able to do that until tonight around 6pm or 7pm.

 

 

 New Collection / Old Collection

 
rikr
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rikr wrote:
I talked with Shane at The Pro-Tactical Shop and he is going to peel the wrapper back on some and check them but he won’t be able to do that until tonight around 6pm or 7pm.

Here are pictures of the HI-MAX that I got from Shane. He just sent me these.

 

 

 New Collection / Old Collection

 
Ecig
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Well, its a question does he has same batch as pingyi.

rikr
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Ecig wrote:
Well, its a question does he have same batch as pingyi.
That’s where he orders his from.

 

 

 New Collection / Old Collection

 
wshyang
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Ecig wrote:
Well, its a question does he have same batch as pingyi.

What I am suspecting is that maybe the factory employees do a switcheroo on some of their cells, so perhaps for some of them they put in the good “Himax” cells we’ve come to know and love, and for others they swop in some old lappie cell.

At least that’s the impression I got from the email reply.

Ecig
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I accept the fact that I pretty much dont understand/know whats happening there (in China) Smile

God knows what happened in this instance, but I dont think its unusual, its like mor usual than unusual thing for quality to drop…

wshyang
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I’ll definitely be redoing the tests in time. Been pondering about it and was worried that perhaps my attempts to mimic HKJ’s battery testing clamp might be sub par.

I won’t want to run the risk of putting people off a good supplier, so I will be waiting for this el cheapo DX charger to arrive and cannibalise its case and battery holder for the sake of… testing!

Ecig wrote:
Ive teste djust 3 out of twelve with 1A to 2,8V, and all had arounf 2200mAh I think. I didnt test the others didnt had time nor will.

Now sein gthese tests I feel I have to check them all, if some cells have even 2 times lower capacity than others!! They are even worse than I thought Shocked
And I intended to use them in some higher current flashlights and in bike lights for longer runtime Shocked

I didnt intend to ask any refund, but now Im not so sure anymore, if some bad from the batch are so bad, and if the batch is so unconsistent

Please post your results too, your post was actually the one that set alarm bells going off in my head.

ChibiM
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So far, no Hi-max/ low-max for me.

Ecig
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I will post my results, I dont have much time, but Ill do my best, Im just measuring one of these 3 cells second cycle, to see will capacity improve.
But, capacity wasnt some big reason for me to buy them (after all its only 200mah more than standard 2400mAh), small voltage sag was the main reason, and all three I tested today have voltage sag at 1A pretty same as almost any other cheaper cell… In 1 minute it drops to around 3,6V, depending of the cell. I dont have equipment to make diagrams, Ill just post their capacities.

Shaneatproshop
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WShyang,

I have had a lot of luck with these batteries. Not even an hour after you posted this the news made it to me. I’m interest in knowing where you are getting the “US18650GR” or “MEHM4CA” can you please peel the the battery back to confirm this? I will replace what you damage either with the HI-MAX that i stock or another 2600 brand of your choice that i stock.

These batteries are done by SHENZHEN PINGYI ELECTRONICS CO in Shenzhen,China. They are supposed to be a Samsung core cell and they are fair people to work with, yet this has me worried. I will talk to the PINGYI sales rep. tonight about this.

Please send me an email,
shane@protacticalshop.com

-Shane

Ecig
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My results until know, dscharging at 1A to 2,8V

1. cell: (1) 2293AH (2) 2238 Ah (first and second cycle… I know, little weird)
2. cell: 2113mAh
3. cell: 2232 mAh

All have large voltage sag same, worse or little better than much cheaper cells.

PS: resting voltage after discharging by 1A to 2,80 V is 3,43V….
SO that would be like at least 0,63V voltage sag.

Shaneatproshop
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Ecig, How depleted where the batteries before you did a recharge? Also when you recharged them what was the trickle, 500mAh or 1000mAh?

-Shane

Ecig
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I use XTAR WP2 chargers, old and new one, so Im not sure with wich one I charged them, was it with 600mAh (old one) or 1000mAh. I dont thik that so important. It is?

I dont understnd first question, sorry, can you clarify?

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS
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Hi Shane. Glad to see you here.

Guys this is one of my personal favorite guys to deal with.

I highly recommend him to anyone needing flashlights, batteries or chargers.

Brad

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On the WP2 II charger there is a dip switch on the top that reads 0,1,2. The 1 is 500mAh the 2 is 1000mAh. 0 is to charge a 0.5v device off the batteries(Reverse). I suggest draining the batteries to a weak state but not completely then do a recharge on dip switch 1. The charge will take maybe 3-4 hours. When you get the time try your test again. I would like to see if we get to the 2600mAh.

-Shane

Ecig
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Ok, I will tomorrow. (must go to sleep now, its 4AM here, hehe)
I just hope Ill figure out how to drain batterie to a weak state (I mean I know how to discharge via USB, but Ill probably have to out it out every now and than to check the voltage…). to wich resting voltage?
And than to charge them with 1A, Ok

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Hey Brad!

Thanks man.. Honestly, I try to stay off these forums as i get beat up with questions.

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Shaneatproshop wrote:
WShyang, I have had a lot of luck with these batteries. Not even an hour after you posted this the news made it to me. I'm interest in knowing where you are getting the “US18650GR” or “MEHM4CA” can you please peel the the battery back to confirm this? I will replace what you damage either with the HI-MAX that i stock or another 2600 brand of your choice that i stock. These batteries are done by SHENZHEN PINGYI ELECTRONICS CO in Shenzhen,China. They are supposed to be a Samsung core cell and they are fair people to work with, yet this has me worried. I will talk to the PINGYI sales rep. tonight about this. Please send me an email, shane@protacticalshop.com -Shane

Guys, I have bought several sets of Hi-Max from Shane and they are some of my better cells. I hope this all gets sorted out Shane, I'm sure you are more worried about this than anybody.

wshyang
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Shaneatproshop wrote:
WShyang,

I have had a lot of luck with these batteries. Not even an hour after you posted this the news made it to me. I’m interest in knowing where you are getting the “US18650GR” or “MEHM4CA” can you please peel the the battery back to confirm this? I will replace what you damage either with the HI-MAX that i stock or another 2600 brand of your choice that i stock.

These batteries are done by SHENZHEN PINGYI ELECTRONICS CO in Shenzhen,China. They are supposed to be a Samsung core cell and they are fair people to work with, yet this has me worried. I will talk to the PINGYI sales rep. tonight about this.

Please send me an email,
shane@protacticalshop.com

-Shane

I just did it for one, seems like it is quite unlike anything I’ve seen, apparently there is no other layer of shrinkwrap inside and the printing is on the cell itself:



And this one’s a Sony.

I’ll try to find one with the Sanyo. Just as a disclaimer though, I didn’t see the “MEHM4CA” through the shrinkwrapping, but what gave it away for me was seeing some of the distinctive “D” symbol that is normally on the Sanyo cells.

A comparison with a “real” Sony:

Pardon the gross mouse! Now I better go wipe it with some detergent!

wshyang
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Better res picture

Shaneatproshop
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Haha,
Okay while i was writing this thread you posted pictures..

Wshyang,

I am not sure about the set of batteries you received but i promise mine are the real Samsung core cells. You did not get the batteries from me which makes it a bit harder to correct the issue. Pingyi just puts the label on the units but Samsung creates the cells for us. I’m working with Pingyi to hopefully find what happen with why you have a Sony cell. This swap of cells error would happen in the Pingyi manufacture and not Samsung. I would like you to get some pictures of the battery once the label is pulled please.

I greatly appreciate your interdependent testing, but after review i feel that you discharge current is beyond Samsungs core preparation rang. I still want to confirm your test so i just bought the West Mountain Radio CBA IV. This way i can replicate your test. It looks like a great tool and i can’t wait to use it! I import these batteries in bulk and jump through hoops to get them in the country as they are classified as dangerous goods. I have document upon document of lithium Ion battery mambo jumbo… I ended up getting the Actual -SAMSUNG SDI Confidential Proprietary – Document for these batteries. I was asked not to release the entire document, but i wanted to give all the back yard battery Test guys, which i appreciate very much, what test specs. should look like when doing their testing.

This is all copy and paste and i hope this can lay a little ground for some.

This is the normal Spec. of the battery Smile

3.1 Nominal Capacity 2600mAh (0.2C, 2.75V discharge)
3.2 Minimum Capacity 2550mAh(0.2C, 2.75V discharge)
3.3 Charging Voltage 4.2 ±0.05 V
3.4 Nominal Voltage 3.7V
3.5 Charging Method CC-CV
(constant voltage with limited current)
3.6 Charging Current
Standard charge: 1300mA
Rapid charge : 2600mA
3.7 Charging Time
Standard charge : 3hours
Rapid charge : 2.5hours
3.8 Max. Charge Current 2600mA(ambient temperature 25℃)
3.9 Max. Discharge Current 5200mA(ambient temperature 25℃)
3.10 Discharge Cut-off Voltage 2.75V
3.11 Cell Weight 47.0g max
3.12 Cell Dimension
Height : 65.00mm max
Diameter : 18.40mm max
3.13 Operating Temperature
Charge : 0 to 45℃
Discharge: -20 to 60℃
3.14 Storage Temperature 1 year : -20~25℃(1*)
3 months : -20~45℃(1*)
1 month : -20~60℃(1*)
Note (1): If the cell is kept as ex-factory status (50% of charge),
the capacity recovery rate is more than 80%.

This Should be the standard test conditions Wink

6.1 Environmental Conditions
Unless otherwise specified, all tests stated in this specification are
conducted at temperature 25±5℃ and humidity 65±20%.
6.2 Measuring Equipment
(1) Ammeter and Voltmeter
The ammeter and voltmeter should have an accuracy of
the grade 0.5 or higher.
(2) Slide caliper
The slide caliper should have 0.01 mm scale.
(3) Impedance meter
The impedance meter with AC 1kHz should be used.

This is how the charge should be set up. :bigsmile:

7.1 Standard Charge
This “Standard Charge” means charging the cell with charge current
1300mA and constant voltage 4.2V at 25℃ for 3hours.
7.2 Standard Discharge Capacity
The standard discharge capacity is the initial discharge capacity of the cell, which is
measured with discharge current of 520mA with 2.75V cut-off at 25℃ within 1hour
after the standard charge.
Standard Discharge Capacity ≥ 2550mAh
7.3 Initial internal impedance
Initial internal impedance measured at AC 1kHz after rated charge.
Initial internal impedance ≤ 100mΩ
7.4 Temperature Dependence of Discharge Capacity
Capacity comparison at each temperature, measured with discharge
constant current 520mA and 2.75V cut-off after the standard charge is
as follows.
Charge Temperature Discharge temperature
25℃ -10℃ 0℃ 25℃ 40℃
Relative Capacity 50% 80% 100% 80%
Note: If charge temperature and discharge temperature is not the same,
the interval for temperature change is 3 hours.
Percentage as an index of the capacity at 25℃(=2550mAh) is 100%.
7.5 Temperature Dependence of Charge Capacity
Capacity comparison at each temperature, measured with discharge constant current
520mA and 2.75V cut-off after the standard charge is as follows.
Note: If charge temperature and discharge temperature is not the same,
the interval for temperature change is 3 hours.
Percentage as an index of the capacity at 25℃(=2550mAh) is 100%.
7.6 Charge Rate Capabilities
Discharge capacity is measured with constant current 520mA and 2.75V cut-off
after the cell is charged with 4.2V as follows.
Note: Percentage as an index of the capacity at 25℃(=2550mAh) is 100%.
7.7 Discharge Rate Capabilities
Discharge capacity is measured with the various currents in under table and 2.75V
cut-off after the standard charge.
Note: Percentage as an index of the capacity at 25℃(=2550mAh) is 100%.
7.8 Cycle Life
Charge temperature Discharge temperature
0℃ 25℃ 45℃
Relative Capacity 80% 100% 80%
25℃
Charge Condition
Current 0.2C
(520mA)
0.5C
(1300mA)
1.0C
(2600mA)
2.0C
(5200mA)
Cut-off 7h or 0.05C 2.5h or 0.05C 2.5h or 0.05C 2.5h or 0.05C
Relative
Capacity 100% 95% 90% 80%
Discharge Condition
Current 0.2C
(520mA)
0.5C
(1300mA)
1.0C
(2600mA)
2.0C
(5200mA)
Relative
Capacity 100% 95% 90% 80%
-SAMSUNG SDI Confidential Proprietary –
Spec. No. ICR18650-26F Version No. 0.0
4
Each cycle is an interval between the charge (charge current 1300mA) with 2.5h or
0.05C cut-off and the discharge (discharge current 1500mA) with 2.75V cut-off.
Capacity after 299cycles and plus 1 day, measured under the same condition
in 7.2
Capacity ≥ 1785mAh(70% of the capacity at 25℃)
7.9 Storage Characteristics
Capacity after storage for 30days at 25℃ from the standard charge,
measured with discharge current 1300mA with 2.75V cut-off at 25℃.
Capacity retention(after the storage) ≥ 2040mAh (80% of the capacity at 25℃)
7.10 Status of the cell as of ex-factory
The cell should be shipped in 50% charged state. In this case, OCV is from 3.65V to
3.85V.

-Shane

wshyang
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Figured I can get adventurous with the two particularly crap cells too:





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