My 14500 battery explosion, with pictures

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brted
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2100 wrote:
Bite the bullet and spend 30 bucks for an entry level hobby charger, not that expensive anyway and it’s great fun.

+1

I just got the temperature probe for my Turnigy Accucel 6 hobby charger and I think that might have prevented something like this (assuming the battery was getting hot before the explosion; this could still easily be a charger issue). The hobby charger can also be set to time out after some number of minutes and to only add a certain number of mAh to avoid overcharging as well. And it tells you the voltage and current the whole time it is charging. Maybe it’s not fool proof (you have to enter all those limits and change them for different types of batteries), but there are a lot of levels of protection that most chargers don’t have.

The problem with “Ultrafire” is that it is so commonly faked. PCB protection that doesn’t actually do anything is another problem with budget batteries. I like the idea of shorting a battery to test the PCB, but it kind of scares me, so I’ve never tried it.

The metal ammo boxes scare me because it seems like you’re asking for a short. Also I don’t have a secure battery holder for my hobby charger, just magnets holding alligator clips in place, so I want to be able to see what is going on and what is touching or not touching.

HKJ
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brted wrote:
PCB protection that doesn't actually do anything is another problem with budget batteries.

What batteries have you seen that on? I have only tested a few budget batteries, but the protection did work on them.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

torchythebatteryboy
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HKJ wrote:

I like using the LiIon bags that are designed to handle a LiIon explosion:

They are frequently used by RC people, when charging their batteries.

But do not use them if you charger gets hot in open air.

 

I do not use these bags for regular LiIon charging, but in my battery testing, where I have been charging and discharging 24/7 for more than 1/2 year (I have never had any venting from the tested batteries or from any other LiIon battery).

 

 

Ok for RC because the battery pack and charger are separate. Wouldn’t fancy rnclosing a charger and battery in it.

HKJ
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torchythebatteryboy wrote:
Ok for RC because the battery pack and charger are separate. Wouldn't fancy rnclosing a charger and battery in it.

If the charger stays cool when charging, there is no problem putting it into the bag.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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After reading instances where these type of failures have occurred I’m almost at the stage of thinking people using cheap chargers with *fire batteries deserve to have a scare! Now I know the possible outcome could be far more severe so of course I don’t actually wish that on anyone.

What is it going to take tho? A family burned to death in their house? That’s a very sobering thought and I really hope this makes people throw away any cheap cells, stick to the Panasonic/Sanyos etc and maintain safe practices.

It really is a shame as I believe good cells, well respected are very safe, the crap that people buy is going to lead to more and more restrictions Sad

scaru
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HKJ wrote:

brted wrote:
PCB protection that doesn't actually do anything is another problem with budget batteries.

What batteries have you seen that on? I have only tested a few budget batteries, but the protection did work on them.

I had some 14500 cells that were marked as protected but weren't. 

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This is kind of off topic here but all this talk about explosions and crap got me questioning my li on batteries.

I periodically discharge my batteries about once every 3 months to about 2.5v to check the capacity on the hobby charger.  Most of my batteries are unprotected.  Is that too low to discharge the cells?  I didn't think it was but since there's so many of you experts here, I thought I'd ask.  Maybe I should be taking them down to 2.8v like HKJ's tests or even as high as 3.0v?

scaru
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It depends on the batteries, NCR18650A go down to 2.5 but the sanyo 2600 go down to 2.8. As a general rule discharge them to 3 unless you read that you can discharge them further. 

brted
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HKJ wrote:

brted wrote:
PCB protection that doesn’t actually do anything is another problem with budget batteries.

What batteries have you seen that on? I have only tested a few budget batteries, but the protection did work on them.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread. Given the number of sellers that advertise protected cells and then send unprotected cells, it doesn’t surprise me. I don’t know of any like that.

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scaru wrote:

It depends on the batteries, NCR18650A go down to 2.5 but the sanyo 2600 go down to 2.8. As a general rule discharge them to 3 unless you read that you can discharge them further. 

Thanks.  That makes sense.  I sorta knew that but I've been draining them all to 2.5v due to laziness.  I'll start taking them down to 3v going forward just to be safe.

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scaru wrote:

I had some 14500 cells that were marked as protected but weren't.

You mean that they where without the protection PCB?

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

2100
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HKJ wrote:

Milan wrote:
Quote:
Usually cells explode at about 4.27/4.28V…some even say as much as low 4.3x volts
now where did you found that?

That is definitely wrong.

From a LiIon data sheet:

9.1 Overcharge Test
Test method: To charge the standard charged cell with 12V and 2.2A at 25℃
for 2.5 hours.
Criteria: No fire, and no explosion.

I got those figures i think from trooplewis, he was charging some stuff in the garage for a few days (forgot about it) and he did measure, believe it was the less branded cells. I’ll do a search, maybe i am wrong with some of the details….and i think it did not vent at all though the unloaded voltage was quite high @ ~ 4.3V when he pulled them and the cell looks messed up.

As mentioned it depends on the cells (we are using xxxfire cells and recycled cells here in BLF). *We have so many factors involving the quality in manufacturing that it is mind boogling to say the least, it’s good to be careful. *

Here’s a Li Po (ok so different chem but it’s definitely far from 12V) exploding at low 5V under charging load.
I’d definitely never put it as 10-12V as the ballpark, definitely not over here at budgetlightforums.

In an overcharged condition, the cell expands.

BTW one thing i have experienced also is that if you have a hobby charger, do take care. Some chargers do auto detection of cells and it just might charge a 1 × 18650 in 2S mode. It actually killed the PCB of my PAlight 18650, but that’s good coz the PCB cut and charger gave me a connection break error. If it’s unprotected, good luck bros! Big Smile The charger are programmed with protection conditions, but nothing is foolproof unless yours is an extremely advanced charger (higher-end RC etc).

2100
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Here it is… there are a few others. (i’ll try to look for trooplewis thread) Ok so it’s Lipo and not LiCo cell, but just “FYI”.

2100
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Ok so this trooplewis’ thread. Seems like i got the figures mixed up. Holy cow 5.27V.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/4001

I know i read that ~ 4.3V version somewhere, youtube or what. (I’ll see if i can remember it, so far back…).

I saw one vid about LiFePO4 exploding too, but the abuse was immense.

No joke bros, as I have attached early of my X-ray with Ti plates + screws + a 11 thousand bucks bill, don’t leave anything to chance.

As I have learnt from my case, an accident = an accident, there is no way of putting anything concrete on that….no assumptions.

scaru
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HKJ wrote:

scaru wrote:

I had some 14500 cells that were marked as protected but weren't.

You mean that they where without the protection PCB?

Yep, no protection. It was a recycled cell and the placed a sheet of aluminum over the negative end to make it look like it was protected. It was from dx.com. 

2100
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scaru wrote:

HKJ wrote:

scaru wrote:

I had some 14500 cells that were marked as protected but weren’t.

You mean that they where without the protection PCB?

Yep, no protection. It was a recycled cell and the placed a sheet of aluminum over the negative end to make it look like it was protected. It was from dx.com. 

Wow…just wow.

This is why I have the “SOP” that I shall test each and every new protected battery with a dead short test on the DMM and after that once in a while (be prepared to break the connection fast, it would save your DMM as well).

When i was still in the army, these SOPs are all written in a book called the TSR (Training Safety Regulations), which is compiled with the blood and lifes of soldiers.

2100
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On the same note, those bigger HIDs with > 1 mil cd are not toys and must be treated with proper respect. I was shot point blank by a 600-700k cd HID, at that range the beam isn’t even focussed and the bulb has cooled somewhat so not full power….. I was literally knocked off my feet + lost my balanced due to nauseousness, my eyes swelled after that for quite a few hours.
With those very big HIDs, treat the danger distance to anywhere less than 10 metres. Smaller 6” ones should be approx 5 metres. HIDs have some sort of long-wave UV (it makes your transition lens goes dark, some much more than others depending on the quartz envelope), not sure how is that focused along with visible light.
If you do short-arc, then that is quite a bit more.

I thought it would be an eye-opener to share these 2 laser incidents as well…. (warning, semi-gore pix inside)

http://laserpointerforums.com/f53/hit-eye-1000mw-445nm-blue-laser-69469....

http://laserpointerforums.com/f53/hit-eye-2-35-watts-had-goggles-77347.html

Laser accidents are just that —-accidents—— something happens that is not expected ot anticipated nor subject to human intervention before it is too late.

>> Some people have strange imaginings that if there is a problem they will use their gogggles but do not want until then——when “then” happens it is too late— the damage has been done and so fast like you say faster than your blink reflex that under ordinary circumstances does a pretty good job of protecting your eyes —-1/4 second or less exposure can leave you completely blind you forever in the case of very powerful handhelds like yours.

People need to learn from the experiences of others that powerful lasers can be extremely dangerous unless handled with proper protection in place.

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Here is the reason why Ultarfire 14500 gray battery explosion

The batteries explosion is not only because of the battery problems, but also because of the chargers. If the battery chargers have over charge protection and over discharge protection function, the the explosions will never happen.

You’d better buy the battery chargers come with over charge protection and over discharge protection function. Such as efest BIO chargers, Xtar chargers, HG chargers, I4、I2 chargers. Those chrgers all have protection cells function.

new charger : http://www.efestpower.com/Product/5163781547.html & http://www.efestpower.com/Product/483756337.html
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2100
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efestjone wrote:
Here is the reason why Ultarfire 14500 gray battery explosion

The batteries explosion is not only because of the battery problems, but also because of the chargers. If the battery chargers have over charge protection and over discharge protection function, the the explosions will never happen.

You’d better buy the battery chargers come with over charge protection and over discharge protection function. Such as efest BIO chargers, Xtar chargers, HG chargers, I4、I2 chargers. Those chrgers all have protection cells function.

Bro, I do have that Trustfire charger, but the black version. That one does have overcharge protection cut-off….i have done it so many times with TF Flames 16340, Panasonic 2900/3100/Sanyo 2600 etc. It cuts a little high at 4.23x volts if you leave it there very long, that’s about it. I have never left it there for > 1 week after green, just feels funny to me. If it was a notebook (properly engineered systems) then that’s ok…..

The LiCo blew at 4.43 volts under charging load here. 1 min 30 sec

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efestjone wrote:
Here is the reason why Ultarfire 14500 gray battery explosion

The batteries explosion is not only because of the battery problems, but also because of the chargers. If the battery chargers have over charge protection and over discharge protection function, the the explosions will never happen.

You’d better buy the battery chargers come with over charge protection and over discharge protection function. Such as efest BIO chargers, Xtar chargers, HG chargers, I4、I2 chargers. Those chrgers all have protection cells function.

A better solution – don’t use Ultrafire, go for good quality like Efest, Senybor, etc, there are a lot of good batteries out there.

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torchythebatteryboy wrote:
efestjone wrote:
Here is the reason why Ultarfire 14500 gray battery explosion

The batteries explosion is not only because of the battery problems, but also because of the chargers. If the battery chargers have over charge protection and over discharge protection function, the the explosions will never happen.

You’d better buy the battery chargers come with over charge protection and over discharge protection function. Such as efest BIO chargers, Xtar chargers, HG chargers, I4、I2 chargers. Those chrgers all have protection cells function.

A better solution – don’t use Ultrafire, go for good quality like Efest, Senybor, etc, there are a lot of good batteries out there.

Everybody sure they’re Ultrafires just because it says so on the label?

Ultrafire aren’t as terrible as all the fake $2 501A hosts on ebay make them out to be. Wink

Reading this makes you smarter: http://lesswrong.com/

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agenthex wrote:
Everybody sure they're Ultrafires just because it says so on the label?

 

What is a real UltraFire? In my test of 18650 batteries the ones that was supposed to be "real" UltraFire was the worst (They did not have the same capacity).

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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HKJ wrote:

agenthex wrote:
Everybody sure they’re Ultrafires just because it says so on the label?

 

What is a real UltraFire? In my test of 18650 batteries the ones that was supposed to be “real” UltraFire was the worst (They did not have the same capacity).

For example the lights that are manufactured by them are quite decent. Regardless, just because it says Ultrafire on the cover means practically nothing.

Reading this makes you smarter: http://lesswrong.com/

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While they may be decent it really is just like batteries, they are Ok but not great. An Ultrafire battery is ok compared to AW, and a Ultrafire flashlight is Ok compared to a Fenix/Sunwayman/Crelant etc. 

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agenthex wrote:
Regardless, just because it says Ultrafire on the cover means practically nothing.

It means you're not getting the claimed capacity, period.  Are you really defending Ultrafire cells, the most universally-panned option available ?

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

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scaru wrote:

While they may be decent it really is just like batteries, they are Ok but not great. An Ultrafire battery is ok compared to AW, and a Ultrafire flashlight is Ok compared to a Fenix/Sunwayman/Crelant etc. 

The point is that this thread had its share of the usual knee-jerk superstitious witch-hunt that follows every perceived threat/danger like it’s an of terrorism or something.

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scaru
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agenthex wrote:
scaru wrote:

While they may be decent it really is just like batteries, they are Ok but not great. An Ultrafire battery is ok compared to AW, and a Ultrafire flashlight is Ok compared to a Fenix/Sunwayman/Crelant etc. 

The point is that this thread had its share of the usual knee-jerk superstitious witch-hunt that follows every perceived threat/danger like it's an of terrorism or something.

Yes, but if you look through my posts I never have recommend Ultrafire cells. I know from my own experiences that they suck and aren't worth the money. This just confirms that, it is evidence. 

agenthex
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scaru wrote:

agenthex wrote:
scaru wrote:

While they may be decent it really is just like batteries, they are Ok but not great. An Ultrafire battery is ok compared to AW, and a Ultrafire flashlight is Ok compared to a Fenix/Sunwayman/Crelant etc. 

The point is that this thread had its share of the usual knee-jerk superstitious witch-hunt that follows every perceived threat/danger like it’s an of terrorism or something.

Yes, but if you look through my posts I never have recommend Ultrafire cells. I know from my own experiences that they suck and aren’t worth the money. This just confirms that, it is evidence. 

Would you say the same confirmation bias applies more or less to sony batteries because they’re easier to identify accurately?

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1. Why ever use an Ultrafire? Repeatedly, these are the subjects of threads about explosions. I think I will throw my freebie (with light) “protected” ultrafire cells away today.

2. I DO NOT READ anywhere the the OP’s exploding cells were protected cells.

3. Brand of charger wasn’t mentioned. In theory, would an xtar or i4 intellicharger have circuitry to avoid this? I think I will also throw away the freebie charger that came with the lights.

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degarb wrote:
1. Why ever use an Ultrafire? Repeatedly, these are the subjects of threads about explosions. I think I will throw my freebie (with light) “protected” ultrafire cells away today.

2. I DO NOT READ anywhere the the OP’s exploding cells were protected cells.

3. Brand of charger wasn’t mentioned. In theory, would an xtar or i4 intellicharger have circuitry to avoid this? I think I will also throw away the freebie charger that came with the lights.


1. That’s not a bad idea.
.
2. I didn’t find where he says specifically they where, but he does talk about not trusting a pcb. They are made of electronic parts, they do fail and are not always made of quality components.
.
3. The OP’s pic shows a Trustfire tr-001. http://www.surevapes.com/Trustfire-TR-001-Lithium-Ion-Charger-White_p_14...
Most all cheap chargers do not follow the recommended CC/CV charging algorithm for li-ion’s. The i4 and xtar VP1 does follow the proper li-ion charging algorithm. The xtar WP2 was reported to almost or at least closely follow the proper li-ion charging algorithm.
While i4 and xtar are trusted good chargers, they still can fail. Never charge li-ion’s unattended.

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