I don’t know whether this small set of data will be useful to torch enthusiasts, but here it is, for what it’s worth.
I have a relatively narrow application where reliability (short term and long) is not critical, nor is individual cell quality. The application’s sole goal was greatest true mAh per $ spent. So I’ve spent some time testing the true discharge capacity of the cheapest cells on eBay. Below are my results:
1) First and foremost, this chart represents about 1/5th of the cells tested. The VAST MAJORITY (80%) of the super-cheap cells on eBay all ended up falling within the 900mAh to 1100mAh range. In fact, there is definitely a common ~1000mAh 18650 cell that seems to be the basis for almost all of the absolute-bottom-end of the 18650 eBay market. The labels slapped on may be different, but 1000mAh is apparently some sort of sweet spot for super-crappy low end cells. So, I didn’t bother charting all of those.
2) The chart below lists some of my interesting finds. Of curious note, is the fact that the GTL cell wasn’t even a real 18650. It was an 18650 case, full of corn starch and a cylindrical shaped LiPo pack. I’ve redacted links to the actual listings - these guys change their stuff too often to make links terribly useful.
One note about the chart. I use “mW / $”, but it’s actually supposed to read “WH / $”, as in Watt-Hours per dollar. I was comparing some different battery technologies in part of the list that I didn’t include, so I needed to account for different nominal voltages. I also typo-d in including the “m” and forgetting the “H”. Sorry, I initially just made this chart for my own reference. If you are curious to know the mAh / $, then just divide the figure in that column by 3.7, and then multiply the result by 1000 *
If anyone has any suggestions for better mAh per $ cells, I’m all ears.
I’ll admit that I’m semi curious to see the response to my objective (greatest mAh per $, ignoring all other factors). Whenever discussions like this come up elsewhere, people seem to have trouble digesting a scenario that uses criteria other than the criteria they’d be employing for their own projects. That said, I think BLF is less obnoxious than other venues
Hi rhd, are you “the” rhd from LPF? Just wondering.
Anyways, thanks for the testing and the value chart.
By any chance did you check out the Trustfire series?
I’m curious to see their performance.
These cells are ridiculously cheap though. So cheap that even 18650’s are filled with corn starch. I remember reading a thread somewhere in BLF or CPF about this particular battery and whether the powdery white stuff was harmful.
I tested a ton of cells that were called TrustFire cells. The challenge is that labels are meaningless. This whole process is a lot more about trusting the seller, than it is about trusting the cell.
My perspective was that the opportunity to make out well, came from identifying a cell that was a good value, and then immediately reordering a larger QTY of them from the same source. Alternately, I tried to seek out cells that were somewhat off the “mainstream”, with the theory being that there would be fewer clones of them, and that it would be easier to re-source them if they were good values. Unfortunately, the latter approach didn’t work, because none of the unique / non-mainstream cells (like the “Firepeak” for example) turned out to be any good.
Interesting test method. Were there any differences when you immediately ordered a larger quantity?
By the way, have you seen any batteries named “Fairman?” I think they’re popular in Korea, but are targeted towards those who don’t really know much about li-ions. There are a bunch of dishonest resellsers who sell lights for 50 bucks which can be found in DX for $5.
I noticed there were some clones of Trustfire flames 2400mAh. Pity, because I really liked those cells, but now I can’t “trust” any of those cells. (pun intended)
Wow, it’s getting pretty late here; I’m off to sleep.
Hm, very interesting comparison. Thanks
On the other hand, all those chipies from eBay sucks. For me, if cell stated with 3500 mAh can do only 1500 mAh at 200 mA discharge - it’s a quite sh*tty cell :~ Why? Because I hardly dunno it will do 600-700 mAh at 1A discharge. Who will need such a poor cell even for 2$?
Just my .02, but after all those reviews I’ve checked, for me, TF 3000 get my personal “best cell per buck” (“original” TF I mean, discarding any dud, of course)
just dandy enough for me in plenty of lights. I figure since they’re not the uber-popular ‘flames’ there’s likely little counterfeiting BS incentive going on if any at all. IOW they fly under the radar. At least that’s my logic. lol Plus DX has been selling these for a long time now. I also understand in 14500 these same TF Blue labels actually perform better than the TF Flamers. Go figure. Maybe those ‘hologram’ labels add more to the cost than you’d think besides guesswork on what ITH one’s actually getting.
If you figure that they’re about $5 a pop, then the math is: (2.6*3.7) / 5 = 1.92 Wh per $
That’s lower value (based on the limited value criteria used here) than a lot of really crappy cells.
There are a lot of benefits to Sanyos that make them a better choice. But for the restricted criteria of this test, name brand cells didn’t do very well. The same is true of Panasonic cells. In fact, even some of the cheap cells that did poorly relative to others tested, beat the Sanyo route. Of course the only reason this is true, is price. When you’re paying < $2 for a cell, it’s REALLY hard for a good name brand cell like a Sanyo to offer a better value than the cheapy based on Wh per $ alone (again, this is only going to be true based on the abnormally narrow criteria used here).
BTW - these cells were discharged at a rate of 700 mAh.
Is it comparing truly crappy GTL-style cells which no one should ever buy or is it trying to determine best bang for the buck for truly crappy cells. Either way I don’t care what the WH$ ratios are I’m not gonna buy any of them. Quality has to come first even if it’s not top-notch quality. Those TF’s I mention above aren’t certainly top-notch by any means but they’re also not crappy cells either and hence they’re at least good enough quality-wise and proven safety-wise for the buck. That’s where a meaningful analysis should go.
I mean this analysis is like telling me hauling my family in a fire-prone $500.00 Ford Pinto gives pretty dang good $ return per mile driven vs the same miles driven in a Lexus LX450. Yeah, no kidding. I’m not ever gonna stick my family in a Pinto. I don’t care how cheap per mile I can buy it. So comparing quality Sanyo unprotecteds in this context is to me kinda of a big ?? onto so what’s the point trying to be made again?
I’ve never had a serious problem with any of them. So far, the quality safety-record I’ve observed has been pretty dang good for the buck. Consistent charging, no flames, what else can I ask for?
I’m not totally sure what your point is. But remember - I _didn’t_compare Sanyo cells. Someone else brought that up.
The purpose of this analysis was neither of the two options you proposed. The purpose, was to maximize the variable mAh/$ (actually Wh/:money_mouth_face:. That’s all. I’m pretty sure I bent over backwards to disclaim the heck out of the fact that these figures might not have application to choosing a cell in the majority of situations. So why stress yourself out repeating what I’ve already acknowledged ?
What amuses me, is that I actually have some of those cells you’ve pointed us to on DX. They’re okay. But I have no idea why you find them compelling?
- Based on my test here, they’d rate at a comparatively low Wh/$.
Based on a more general analysis, they’re $4 per cell. Why would you spend $4 per cell for DX TrustFires, when you could spend $5 on Sanyos?
No one should ever buy probable counterfeit dicey cells from a dicey e-bay kinda source at anytime unless WH$ includes factoring in the higher odds of burning down your house.
(I readily admit I’m highly opinionated. Sometimes I’m even right. You can totally disagree with it and you might be more right. I see your point better now on what you’re trying to convey I guess. But again the bottom deal for me here is that I still don’t see the benefit of it because one should never buy this level of dicey cell to begin with especially in Li-ion.)
Why would I find them compelling? The DX TrustFires in question are protected the Sanyo’s aren’t. It’s not much insurance but at least there’s some insurance if I mess up charging, hooking up wrong in a mod, etc. DX is big enough they better sell the real deal or they’re gonna go under. Plus like I said so far knocking on wood (my fat head) they haven’t burned the house down yet. Plus they’re pretty dang cheap when I factor in all that. 8)
You’ll have to take my word (or not) for the fact that my purpose here intentionally didn’t factor in considerations like durability, reliability, and longevity, etc.
For flashlights, powerbanks, and other regular usage stuff, have four dozen Sony cells and several dozen more assorted Sanyos, Panasonics, and generic IMRs + AWIMRs. I’m with you. You don’t need to sell me.
There are a hundred tests, comparisons, shootouts, etc, of good quality cells out on the internet and various forums. That’s not what this is
Again, there are lots of those tests out there, and this isn’t one of those tests.
You do not need to do any measurements to make a list of the more expensive batteries. You could just use my reviews as basis for capacity and then start calculating cost to you country for x number of batteries.
My criteria in choosing cells was essentially that they be obtainable for <$3 shipped.
If anyone is genuinely interested in seeing another cell tested, and it falls within that criteria (under $3 shipped), I will order one, and test it. Just point me to the URL
If it’s under $3 shipped, and is different from the cells I’ve already tested, I’ll order one and test it.
Wanna a li-ion charger and a pair of cells? HKJ reviews all the way :bigsmile: 