Turning a Thrower into a Flooder - How?

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garrybunk
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Turning a Thrower into a Flooder - How?

So I have my eyes on the Small Sun ZY-T08.  I like the parallel cell arrangement for long runtimes, but I'd like it to be more of a flooder like an XM-L in a P60, not total flood, and retain some throw).  What's the best way to get more flood from it?  Sputter the reflector with "glass frosting spray"?  Or would that not make it floody enough?  Spray the glass lens with the "glass frosting spray"?  Or use a diffusion film on the lens?  (If this is an option, would someone please link me to where I can get some?) Oh, and it would be nice if someone had before and after photos to see the beam pattern result. 

It would be nice if whatever I do could be reversed to turn it back into a thrower.  If I could buy an extra reflector and/or lens that would be great. 

I know some of you kringe at the idea of "ruining" a perfectly good thrower!  Maybe, in the spirit of BLF, I just need to buy two of them.

Thanks,
-Garry

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Edited by: garrybunk on 10/10/2012 - 16:30
Chicago X
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I'll send you a couple pieces of film.   If one doesn't do the job, double up !

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

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garrybunk
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Is using the film produce a better result than "frosting" a reflector or lens?  Or is it just convenient because it can be removed?  And where is this film sold and what is it called, "diffusion film"?  (Not saying I won't take a free sample!)  I don't have the light yet; kinda weighing the options now and making sure this is feasible. 

I think I've heard that some people have used Scotch "Magic Tape" with good results.  Anyone confirm?

-Garry

 

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Chicago X
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Results are similar to a frosted lens, but conveniently removable.

DC Fix is the common brand of film, if you're looking.

Scotch tape is OK, but seems to cut more lumen than necessary to achieve the desired diffusion, as well as leaving a residue upon removal.

If a permanent fix is needed, I like to lightly bead-blast the lens (thanks to Old-Lumens for that tip.)

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

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garrybunk
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What about "Glad brand Press-n-Seal" which you recommended back in July here? I do want to keep as mush output as I can of course.

Got a good source for DC Fix?  I googled it and found different varieties of it. 

-Garry

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scaru
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Here the link for DC fix is. 

garrybunk
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Thanks scaru!  I might just go ahead and order some as it's cheap enough. 

-Garry

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garrybunk wrote:

What about "Glad brand Press-n-Seal" which you recommended back in July here? I do want to keep as mush output as I can of course...

Great stuff, and available at most grocery stores.

Still recommended.

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

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gcbryan
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I hate to (partially) disagree with Chicago X but Press n Seal (which will work) also is somewhat directional as I recall (I’ve tried most films at one point or another).

DCfix seems to be the best for most applications and Magic Tape works well (but I do agree with Chicago X’s comments here) for those times when the design of the light makes the stiffer DCfix harder to use.

If you really want to experiment sometime order one of the Lee Filters sample gell packs and there are many different grades of diffusion.

DCfix is what I end up using most often however.

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garrybunk wrote:

I know some of you kringe at the idea of "ruining" a perfectly good thrower!  Maybe, in the spirit of BLF, I just need to buy two of them.

Thanks,
-Garry

Yes, buy two, LOL.

Make one a thrower and the other a flooder. Ues Krylon on the flooder reflector. It's permanent, but I think it dosen't loose as much light as film does. Just my feeling.

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apt323
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Wonder what a half and half reflector would do?

Half OL with krylon and half factory!

rojos
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garrybunk wrote:

Sputter the reflector with "glass frosting spray"? 

That's not the right spray.  You need Acrylic Crystal Clear Gloss.  The frosting spray can be applied to the inside of the lens to get a frosted lens effect, but sputtering the reflector requires crystal clear gloss or you'll lose a lot of output.

Of the choices given so far, I'd choose DC Fix.  It retains the most output and has the convenience of being semi-permanent.  

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gcbryan wrote:
I hate to (partially) disagree with Chicago X but Press n Seal (which will work) also is somewhat directional as I recall (I've tried most films at one point or another).

No disagreement here - due to the patterning of the film, it can be a tad uneven on smaller lenses.  Since the subject was one of throwers with typically larger reflectors, it likely won't apply.

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

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Thanks guys! Good thing I didn't use the frosting spray on a reflector yet!  I'll probably pickup the DC Fix and Glad press-n-seal as well as some extra P60/C8 lenses to experiment with. 

-Garry

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rojos
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Chicago X wrote:

gcbryan wrote:
I hate to (partially) disagree with Chicago X but Press n Seal (which will work) also is somewhat directional as I recall (I've tried most films at one point or another).

No disagreement here - due to the patterning of the film, it can be a tad uneven on smaller lenses.  Since the subject was one of throwers with typically larger reflectors, it likely won't apply.

Press n Seal acts the same with big or small reflectors.  It has a polarizing effect and creates an elongated oval shaped beam.  You have to use two layers oriented 90 degrees to each other to get a round beam, but the resulting output loss is significant.  

The stuff is fine if you use just one layer and don't mind an oval shaped beam.  But not so good if you want a round beam.

Chicago X
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I just went back and tried some again - you guys are right. Sealed  I never noticed the effect before with a single layer.

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

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DrJones
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I just ordered a big sheet of that d-c-fix film, can send out small sheets when I get it.

PCC
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Here’s an experiment that I performed awhile ago:
First picture is of a stock MagLED.
Second picture is the same light with the reflector sputtered with clear hairspray.
Third picture is of the stock reflector and/or with the sputtered reflector behind a diffusion film.

Note that the sputtered beam loses the rings, but, is otherwise almost the same as stock. Also note that the hard edge of the spill is gone with the diffusion film.

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What you can’t see in the first two pictures is the hotspot. It’s in that round spot, which is actually the corona. The hotspot in the last picture is as shown.

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So in your experiment you never got lots of flood.  So perhaps diffusion film isn't enough for me to get that "XM-L in a P60" type of beam?

(BTW - I'm getting a "you don't have enough posts" message on CPFMP when I login.  Will I still be able to order?  I don't get the notice on the regular CPF (where I have a whopping 13 post count!)

Oh, and I looked for the Glad press-n-seal.  I only found a "limited edition" apparently with some sort of winter print/design to it so I didn't buy it.

-Garry

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Nope. What it did was to brighten and widen the spill and it blended the hotspot and corona, reducing its ability to throw. I suppose you can increase the diffusing film or use a diffusing lens to eliminate the hotspot altogether, but, this also reduces output. If you want a wider XM-L hotspot then you’ll need to change reflectors or swap in an emitter with a larger die, like an SST-90.

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Well I think I'm still going to get the light.  I'll just be prepared if it doesn't diffuse as wide as I hoped.

Oh, and I just came back from ordering the DC Fix on CPFMP - I feel so dirty now coming back from that place!  Nothing but trouble trying to post and PM the guy!  What a joke!  I hope it goes through ok!  (Why the heck would I want to make posts in the Marketplace that are anything other than placing an order??  Guess I could raise my post count by asking stupid questions just for the sake of getting a post up - oh, wait, then I'll get reamed out for posting a stupid question and not searching!  You can't win over there!)

-Garry

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Garry:

I've used the film on a few lights. To me it smooths out the beam, doesn't really turn it into a flooder. Hot spot is retained, but it is more... well, diffuse. Laughing  I do think there is a small loss in brightness, but you would only be able to tell with two identical lights side by side or with a light meter/sphere.

I am going to try the stippling to remove a ringy beam from a SMO reflector. Before I do it though, I'll try diffusion film. I suggest you try both - the film can be removed, the spray paint is permanent.

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Yeah I don't want "total flood", but I do want a wide beam (think cycling use - see about a 10 to 12 foot swath in front of me and then see a good bit down the trail as well).  The "XM-L in a P60" has really become my favorite beam pattern for "real world use".  It's been said before, throwers are great for wowing people and playing with, but in everyday use a floodier light is generally what's needed.

BTR, any chance you can get beamshots stock, diffused with film, and sprayed?  (I don't think I ever see you post beamshots.)  I've ordered the film - well I sent PayPal for it, but I can't get the a PM sent to the guy!  Really irritating!  I went to PM him from the "regular" CPF site (not CPFMP) and when I click send I get a "database error".  Glad we don't deal with this crap over here at BLF! 

-Garry

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Garry, beamshots are tough for me, mainly lack of time and I've never found a suitable place nearby where I live. Too much light polution in the Chicagoland area and my neighborhood has street lights that seem to mess things up. I'm also a photography moron - but my new iPhone 5 has a pretty good camera, so maybe I'll give it a try. I can promise some good white wall shots of before, diffused and stippled, as I do have that down. I'll see how the weekend goes.

If you can't get the CPFMP thing to work out, take Chicago X up on his offer to send you some. He sent me a 12" x 18" sheet along with a light I bought from him. I think it is enough to last me 10 years. I think he has plenty... Smile

Edit: And I know exactly what you are looking for related to cycling. My JM07 is still my favorite light - floody up front and it still throws way down the road. When I ride with a real flood bar light, I mostly use my P60 size lights as my thrower: L2P, M6, TN30.

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I'll see if I get a response to the guy.  My posts finally appeared (hours later) in the thread and I posted that I couldn't PM him and sent him an email. 

-Garry

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I assume the guy you are trying to get over there is the same guy that is a member here as well. Last name Ngyen. He seems to be a good guy and I got my stuff right away (he lives in my city however I believe).

Diffusion IMO is the way to go however there are many degrees of diffusion. Obviously the more the diffusion effect the more light you lose. Some material is more effective than others however.

If you are using a reasonably bright light losing a small amount of light is usually not a problem (to me).

The most interesting experiment is to get the Lee’s Filters sample pack and try their diffusion filters. They are small (no bigger than P60 sized).

They have some filters that diffuse so little that the hotspot still comes through with just a little hazy look to it. You go find other filters where it’s total diffusion.

It’s interesting just to experiment to see what effects you like.

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gcbryan wrote:
I assume the guy you are trying to get over there is the same guy that is a member here as well. Last name Ngyen.

Nope.  It's the "Diffussion Film - DC Fix" sales thread.  Username="Phaserburn"

-Garry

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garrybunk wrote:

gcbryan wrote:
I assume the guy you are trying to get over there is the same guy that is a member here as well. Last name Ngyen.

Nope.  It’s the “Diffussion Film – DC Fix” sales thread.  Username=“Phaserburn”

-Garry

Try this:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/3399

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I got my diffuser film now. Indeed, I like it Smile 

If you feel that one layer doesn't suffice, try covering the lens on both sides.

I can send a 10cm*17cm sheet for 3 USD international, two sheets for 4 USD. PM me if interested.