A123 Systems Bankrupt

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ryansoh3
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A123 Systems Bankrupt

Uh oh, just read that A123 systems battery manufacturer declared bankruptcy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/business/battery-maker-a123-systems-fi...

I’ve always been amazed by the punch the batteries deliver; they even can start a car. I don’t believe this will impact the flashlight community though.

BLF ≠ B-grade Flashlight Forum

 

PilotPTK
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Yep, read about that yesterday. It’s a shame. A123 has a facility about 10 miles from me, and it’s a hell of a facility.

This won’t affect the flashlight community at all.

A123’s aim was to secure automotive business. They tried and tried and tried to capture the Chevy Volt business. To my knowledge, they haven’t scored a single major automotive contract. That’s what forced their bankruptcy.

A123 can deliver huge current, but capacity is quite low compared to LiIon.. I suspect that was the killer.. They aren’t cheap either, and Automotive likes cheap.

PPtk

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cainn
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ryansoh3 wrote:
I’ve always been amazed by the punch the batteries deliver; they even can start a car.

And I literally did that one morning a few years ago using 2 A123 assembled 13.2v RC battery packs in parallel. The car battery was almost completely dead too.

Such a shame this news. Perhaps some other company will pick up their R&D.

PilotPTK
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I think Johnson Controls is picking up their entire Automotive-Based operation.

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JohnnyMac
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I would love to have a few of their Nanophosphate 26650 cells

http://www.a123systems.com/lithium-ion-cells-26650-cylindrical-cell.htm

scaru
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I for one am planning on placing an order for a bunch of 18650s and 26650s before they disappear. Big Smile 

Slim Pickens
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scaru wrote:

I for one am planning on placing an order for a bunch of 18650s and 26650s before they disappear. Big Smile 


Check out this badboy! At 113mm in length they could be excellent cells for a multi-XM-L setup in a Mag D. Or a Mag build requiring a boost driver.
http://www.a123systems.com/32113-lithium-iron-phosphate-high-power-batte...
PilotPTK
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Yes, They would be awesome. Unfortunately, good luck getting any. I’ve never seen one in the wild

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fishinfool
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ryansoh3 wrote:
Uh oh, just read that A123 systems battery manufacturer declared bankruptcy. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/business/battery-maker-a123-systems-fi... I've always been amazed by the punch the batteries deliver; they even can start a car. I don't believe this will impact the flashlight community though.

 

What a waste of our tax dollars.   

 

Don wrote:

"But as I said long ago, you are more likely to be killed by a dead fish dropped by a seagull in the Sahara Desert than by a lithium ion

scaru
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PilotPTK wrote:
Yes, They would be awesome. Unfortunately, good luck getting any. I've never seen one in the wild

Yeah, I have been searching for those for a while, never was able to get any. :'( I did just order a couple 18650s. Big Smile

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Don’t worry our govbberment knows what they are dooing jus ass brock husain bumbba! Wink

"Yell  {"Old, Broken Butt,  Zeide"}&nbs

Shadowww
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PilotPTK wrote:
Yes, They would be awesome. Unfortunately, good luck getting any. I’ve never seen one in the wild

http://www.a123rc.com/goods-474-High+Quality+Original+Lithium+Ion+Batter... – D diameter, 2.6D length (so would fit in 3D Mag quite nicely)
http://www.a123rc.com/goods-471-High+Power+Automotive+AHR32113M1Ultra.html – D diameter, 1.9D length, 120A continuous discharge

Enjoy Wink

mattthemuppet
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fishinfool wrote:
What a waste of our tax dollars

same applies to the billions of dollars wasted on tax breaks for the oil and corn industries, or any other government incentive/ support an industry receives. Better to take a risk and it fail than to cede entire markets to other countries.

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I’ve been using A123 batteries every day for about five years now. They are what started me down this slippery slope of batteries and flashlights.

I bought a Black and Decker VPX cordless screwdriver powered by A123s and was so impressed with the battery I started googling them. I spent about a month on RC forums reading about RC hobbiests harvesting A123 batteries from VPX and Dewalt battery packs. Which led to CPF and eventually here.

Here are a couple of videos touting the A123s safety. The first one is someone pressing a nail through a regular LI-ion.

And this one pressing a nail through a A123.

fishinfool wrote:

ryansoh3 wrote:
Uh oh, just read that A123 systems battery manufacturer declared bankruptcy. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/business/battery-maker-a123-systems-fi... I’ve always been amazed by the punch the batteries deliver; they even can start a car. I don’t believe this will impact the flashlight community though.

 

What a waste of our tax dollars.   

 

Yep, the government trying to pick winners again. |(

Slim Pickens
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Shadowww wrote:
PilotPTK wrote:
Yes, They would be awesome. Unfortunately, good luck getting any. I’ve never seen one in the wild

http://www.a123rc.com/goods-474-High+Quality+Original+Lithium+Ion+Batter... – D diameter, 2.6D length (so would fit in 3D Mag quite nicely)
http://www.a123rc.com/goods-471-High+Power+Automotive+AHR32113M1Ultra.html – D diameter, 1.9D length, 120A continuous discharge

Enjoy Wink


What’s the ‘normal’ low discharge voltage for these (deepest discharge?)
Lumatic
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…….

“When I buy something in bulk you should prolly buy at least one too.”…..“They that have light shall rule the night.”…..“Flashaholics feel depressed without darkness.”…….“I’m a very terminal torchaholic. My entire life just flashed before my eyes

fnsooner
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Oops Look again. I edited.
Lumatic
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…..

“When I buy something in bulk you should prolly buy at least one too.”…..“They that have light shall rule the night.”…..“Flashaholics feel depressed without darkness.”…….“I’m a very terminal torchaholic. My entire life just flashed before my eyes

Shadowww
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Slim Pickens wrote:
What’s the ‘normal’ low discharge voltage for these (deepest discharge?)
2.0V by datasheets, but they don’t really have any capacity remaining after voltage drops below 2.8V.
texaspyro
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Slim Pickens wrote:
What’s the ‘normal’ low discharge voltage for these (deepest discharge?)

2.5V (some docs say 2.0V). But once you get below 3.0V, there is very little energy left in them. The voltage falls off a cliff. Some of my testing at: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20698

Shadowww
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Hey texaspyro, nice to see (yet another) eBiker up here.. hehe Silly

texaspyro
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PilotPTK wrote:
Yes, They would be awesome. Unfortunately, good luck getting any. I’ve never seen one in the wild

I bought a few dozen out of China. Nice cells.

These are nicer:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A123-20AH-Lifepo4-Battery-Qty-4-/300797711332?pt...

I used 32 of them (dual 16S packs) as the backup supply in my 180,000 lumen device. Most people are seeing 18.5-19.5 Ah out of the low cost pouch cells that are available. You can get them for around $25-$30 each in medium quantities, shipped, out of China… I’d buy from the US sellers though. Make sure they have the full length tabs.

And Fisker used the A123 pouch cells in their car. Large modules are available surplus from China. Shipping is a beeotch, though.

Slim Pickens
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texaspyro wrote:
Slim Pickens wrote:
What’s the ‘normal’ low discharge voltage for these (deepest discharge?)

2.5V (some docs say 2.0V). But once you get below 3.0V, there is very little energy left in them. The voltage falls off a cliff. Some of my testing at: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20698

Sweet data.

The extent to which temperature affects voltage under load, voltage at 90% DoD, etc. is eye-opening. Cool, thanks.

PilotPTK
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texaspyro wrote:
PilotPTK wrote:
Yes, They would be awesome. Unfortunately, good luck getting any. I’ve never seen one in the wild

I bought a few dozen out of China. Nice cells.

These are nicer:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A123-20AH-Lifepo4-Battery-Qty-4-/300797711332?pt...

I used 32 of them (dual 16S packs) as the backup supply in my 180,000 lumen device. Most people are seeing 18.5-19.5 Ah out of the low cost pouch cells that are available. You can get them for around $25-$30 each in medium quantities, shipped, out of China… I’d buy from the US sellers though. Make sure they have the full length tabs.

And Fisker used the A123 puch cells in their car. Large modules are available from China. Shipping is a beeotch, though.

When I said I had never seen any in the wild, I was specifically referencing the AHR32113M1Ultra-B that Slim Pickens linked to. I have dozens of other cylindrical and prismatic A123 Cells, and yes, they’re awesome. The AHR32113M1Ultra-B in particular, however, I have never seen available for sale.

Even A123RC.Com that was linked above only has the AHR32113M1Ultra; Not the B

PPtk

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texaspyro wrote:
... And Fisker used the A123 puch cells in their car. Large modules are available from China. Shipping is a beeotch, though.

The Fisker debacle is one of the major reasons for their present situation.

I hope Johnson Controls fares better with the automotive side of things.

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

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PilotPTK
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Proving that as a supplier of anything, Automotive Sucks.

Mr. Automotive Customer: “We Need it Now, We need it flawless, We want you to warranty it forever, and if you shut down our line, we’ll charge you $250,000 per hour”

Later that day/month/year..

Mr. Automotive Customer: “What do you mean you made 4% margin |( We are obviously due a 4% return and we want a 5% reduction in price for next year”

..

That would be so much funnier if it weren’t true. Ask me why I don’t even answer the phone for auto companies any more…

PPtk

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Lumatic
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Saw this video back when I was in my electric scooter modding days. I just remembered they buillt it with A123’s. It’s still kinda impressive.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bERjkSTYOdU

“When I buy something in bulk you should prolly buy at least one too.”…..“They that have light shall rule the night.”…..“Flashaholics feel depressed without darkness.”…….“I’m a very terminal torchaholic. My entire life just flashed before my eyes

texaspyro
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Chicago X wrote:
The Fisker debacle is one of the major reasons for their present situation.

Yep, they had a welding machine that was welding a tab slightly out of place. But they had no way to track which cells were done on that machine (can you say STOOOPID? I knew ya’ could). A123 gobbled a $50+ million dollar loss. Modules were surplused to China where you can now buy them for sorta cheap… pot luck as to what you get quality wise, most people seem to be doing OK with them. Some experiences here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38901

texaspyro
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Lumatic wrote:
Saw this video back when I was in my electric scooter modding days.

Then there’s the Killacycle motorcycle. Does 0-60 in well under a second.

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Texaspyro said……

Quote:
Then there’s the Killacycle motorcycle. Does 0-60 in well under a second.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWM1xeWusi8&feature=related

“When I buy something in bulk you should prolly buy at least one too.”…..“They that have light shall rule the night.”…..“Flashaholics feel depressed without darkness.”…….“I’m a very terminal torchaholic. My entire life just flashed before my eyes

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texaspyro wrote:
Chicago X wrote:
The Fisker debacle is one of the major reasons for their present situation.

Yep, they had a welding machine that was welding a tab slightly out of place. But they had no way to track which cells were done on that machine (can you say STOOOPID? I knew ya’ could). A123 gobbled a $50+ million dollar loss. Modules were surplused to China where you can now buy them for sorta cheap… pot luck as to what you get quality wise, most people seem to be doing OK with them. Some experiences here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38901

What’s your take on the feasibility of transport with the current (or future) gen of tech? I recall the energy density compared to gas was off by such an order of magnitude that massive batteries will be a necessity to support expectations of US transportation design, and to further aggravate this superconducting is probably necessary for charging at the rate gas can be pumped to avoid explosive temperatures.

Reading this makes you smarter: http://lesswrong.com/

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