The false economy of in home LED lighting

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Jerommel
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I made 2 LED arrays not long ago, replacing a tube light of 30 Watts (which smoked its circuit)

I made 2 strips of 15× 5730 LEDs running an easy 5 Watts each (0.33 Watt per LED) using 3S 600mA mains drivers, on 40cm lengths of aluminium curtain rail.
LEDs are 3000K (specified as 2700K but it’s a bit cooler) 95CRI Osram Duris E5 (new old stock) from a German Ebay vendor.
I reflowed them on cheap ribbon which had crappy LEDs on them.
Very nice lights. Good tint, plenty of red.

So these LEDs are probably 5 years old, but it puts out a similar amount of light as the tube light.
Maybe even a little more.
I have also replaced some small CFL lights with LEDs in outdoor lights.
Stepping down from 11 to 3 Watts, and still the same amount of light.

So in my experience LEDs are 3 times as efficient as CFL lights, even warm white high CRI LEDs.

Vegas LED Fan
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There Is No Free Lunch If you buy bulbs subsidized by the local power company, that subsidy is built into the rate charged for all customers. Nevada Power Company (now known as NV Energy) was mandated by the state legislature to operate some energy savings programs including providing low-cost CFL bulbs, buying up old refrigerators, and home energy audits. They partnered with a local non-profit to sell CFLs at one time and near the end of the program the cost was 50 cents each. I bought a bunch, including spares, but soon learned how horrible the color rendition was for CFLs. Ended up changing to LEDs and donating all of my CFLs to our local Scout camp. I also hated how slow CFLs were to reach peak intensity when it is cold outside.

As to energy efficiency. LEDs are light years ahead of incandescents and more than twice as efficient as CFLs for the same number of lumens. The comparison shown here http://www.usailighting.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/1/92ffeb328de0f487825... is for a 60W incandescent. Relative cost per year for LED/CFL/incandescent is $1.11/$2.56/$10.95 if you ran all three for the same number of hours.

The point where LEDs became more cost effective than CFLs has already passed because the price has dropped so much. I could go to two local “dollar plus” stores and buy cheap LED bulbs for a dollar or two. I don’t expect them to last as long as the bulbs I bought overseas because the components in them are so cheap. It is not the LEDs that fail but the AC/DC converter built into the base of the bulb that is the weak link. In any case, they should last longer than a comparable incandescent bulb which will become unavailable as of 2020.

Lexel
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Vegas LED Fan wrote:
I bought a bunch, including spares, but soon learned how horrible the color rendition was for CFLs. Ended up changing to LEDs and donating all of my CFLs to our local Scout camp. I also hated how slow CFLs were to reach peak intensity when it is cold outside.

As to energy efficiency. LEDs are light years ahead of incandescents and more than twice as efficient as CFLs for the same number of lumens. The comparison shown here http://www.usailighting.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/1/92ffeb328de0f487825... is for a 60W incandescent. Relative cost per year for LED/CFL/incandescent is $1.11/$2.56/$10.95 if you ran all three for the same number of hours.

The point where LEDs became more cost effective than CFLs has already passed because the price has dropped so much. I could go to two local “dollar plus” stores and buy cheap LED bulbs for a dollar or two. I don’t expect them to last as long as the bulbs I bought overseas because the components in them are so cheap. It is not the LEDs that fail but the AC/DC converter built into the base of the bulb that is the weak link. In any case, they should last longer than a comparable incandescent bulb which will become unavailable as of 2020.

Philips has CFL LED 1:1 replacements 3000 or 5000 Lumens on 27/42W
those are already more efficient have good tint no heat up time ect, just the price is a bit high as they are pretty new

I bought this bulb to light the garage of my parents house, should receive it tomorrow
Specs
E27
42W
5000 Lumens

http://www.lighting.philips.de/prof/led-lampen-und-roehren/led-als-alter...

Also will upgrade my living room
bought last week

CRI97
445lumens compared to 4 year old Philips spots with CRI80 and just 350 lumens
http://www.lighting.philips.de/prof/led-lampen-und-roehren/led-reflektor...

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Jerommel
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Vegas LED Fan wrote:
It is not the LEDs that fail but the AC/DC converter built into the base of the bulb that is the weak link.
Yeah, usually they use a capacitor between the mains and a bridge rectifier, and then smooth that out with a capacitor (but sometimes they don’t and you have a 50 or 60 Hz flickering light…)
There’s also a current limiting resistor and a bleeder resistor for the smoothing capacitor in there.
Not really efficient in all…
Lexel
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Jerommel wrote:
Vegas LED Fan wrote:
It is not the LEDs that fail but the AC/DC converter built into the base of the bulb that is the weak link.
Yeah, usually they use a capacitor between the mains and a bridge rectifier, and then smooth that out with a capacitor (but sometimes they don’t and you have a 50 or 60 Hz flickering light…) There’s also a current limiting resistor and a bleeder resistor for the smoothing capacitor in there. Not really efficient in all…

The big companies have already light bulbs that are specified 40000h at 100°C housing temperature
of cource all the cheap chineese ripoff have rerally really bad AC/DC converters, worst with mains on the LED board in 50% of the cases on GU10 sockets

Jerommel
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Lexel wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
Vegas LED Fan wrote:
It is not the LEDs that fail but the AC/DC converter built into the base of the bulb that is the weak link.
Yeah, usually they use a capacitor between the mains and a bridge rectifier, and then smooth that out with a capacitor (but sometimes they don’t and you have a 50 or 60 Hz flickering light…) There’s also a current limiting resistor and a bleeder resistor for the smoothing capacitor in there. Not really efficient in all…

The big companies have already light bulbs that are specified 40000h at 100°C housing temperature
of cource all the cheap chineese ripoff have rerally really bad AC/DC converters, worst with mains on the LED board in 50% of the cases on GU10 sockets


You get what you pay for. Smile
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I paid $5.99 each for my last two four-packs of Feit Electric filament LED bulbs ($1.50 per bulb). I’m happy with the price, appearance, and fitment in standard lamps/sockets. This light is possibly a little warm for my taste.

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funkychateau wrote:
I paid $5.99 each for my last two four-packs of Feit Electric filament LED bulbs ($1.50 per bulb). I’m happy with the price, appearance, and fitment in standard lamps/sockets. This light is possibly a little warm for my taste.

you get filaments in
2000K vintage, relatively new
2700K
4000K

Vegas LED Fan
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Here’s the circuit board and LED array for one of the cheap dollar store lights. I pulled this apart to show what makes the light work and why the A19 is the worst design for LED bulbs. This one has fifteen 2835 LEDs on the plate. They are the least efficient of the various LEDs (3528, 5050, 5630, 5730, 8520) used in strips. The AC/DC converter in the bulb consists of 4 diodes, two capacitors and two resistors (the load resistor is hidden on the bottom of the plate).

I wish Lexel good luck on lighting his garage with a single Philips 42W 5000 lumen bulb. I couldn’t read the Philips brochure written in German though a long time ago I could read German scientific articles. Forgot a lot over the years. This bulb is one of the kind a city uses to replace the sodium vapor lights used for street lights. https://www.assets.lighting.philips.com/is/content/PhilipsLighting/fp929... It is a very concentrated source of light and might damage your vision if you look directly at it close up. The ones in my community are mounted the height of a two story house so you never look at them close up. I had similar thoughts a few years ago and installed a single $10 25W LED corn bulb in the middle of the garage ceiling. It is made from 102 SMD 5050 LEDs and is incredibly bright. It was not only that but annoyingly bright if you were to look up at it. Later I abandoned that idea and installed seven 20” rigid bar lights that light the garage evenly without being blinding if you look at them plus pretty economical.

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I have 6 of these in various places in my home, 4 in 2700K, 2 in 3000K, 30 degree versions. The tint is about perfect and the beam really smooth.

I measured a 3000K one (center of the beam but there’s no visible tint gradient over the beam) and they are indeed 97CRI and perfect tint:

Enderman
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^^ I also only use philips bulbs at home, but I use the bright white (4000k) ones instead.
Work very well, they look exactly like the original halogen pars that they are replacing.

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I’d love some 4000K ones in a few corners of the house but my girlfriend refuses 4000K, makes her feel like she’s in hospital Sad

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Lexel wrote:
Vegas LED Fan wrote:
I bought a bunch, including spares, but soon learned how horrible the color rendition was for CFLs. Ended up changing to LEDs and donating all of my CFLs to our local Scout camp. I also hated how slow CFLs were to reach peak intensity when it is cold outside.

As to energy efficiency. LEDs are light years ahead of incandescents and more than twice as efficient as CFLs for the same number of lumens. The comparison shown here http://www.usailighting.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/1/92ffeb328de0f487825... is for a 60W incandescent. Relative cost per year for LED/CFL/incandescent is $1.11/$2.56/$10.95 if you ran all three for the same number of hours.

The point where LEDs became more cost effective than CFLs has already passed because the price has dropped so much. I could go to two local “dollar plus” stores and buy cheap LED bulbs for a dollar or two. I don’t expect them to last as long as the bulbs I bought overseas because the components in them are so cheap. It is not the LEDs that fail but the AC/DC converter built into the base of the bulb that is the weak link. In any case, they should last longer than a comparable incandescent bulb which will become unavailable as of 2020.

Philips has CFL LED 1:1 replacements 3000 or 5000 Lumens on 27/42W
those are already more efficient have good tint no heat up time ect, just the price is a bit high as they are pretty new

I bought this bulb to light the garage of my parents house, should receive it tomorrow
Specs
E27
42W
5000 Lumens


I would love 5000 lumen bulbs, we don’t have them in Canada yet.

As for CFLs they are dead, this is a 6 year old thread

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

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Vegas LED Fan wrote:

I wish Lexel good luck on lighting his garage with a single Philips 42W 5000 lumen bulb. I couldn’t read the Philips brochure written in German though a long time ago I could read German scientific articles. Forgot a lot over the years. This bulb is one of the kind a city uses to replace the sodium vapor lights used for street lights. https://www.assets.lighting.philips.com/is/content/PhilipsLighting/fp929... It is a very concentrated source of light and might damage your vision if you look directly at it close up. The ones in my community are mounted the height of a two story house so you never look at them close up. I had similar thoughts a few years ago and installed a single $10 25W LED corn bulb in the middle of the garage ceiling. It is made from 102 SMD 5050 LEDs and is incredibly bright. It was not only that but annoyingly bright if you were to look up at it. Later I abandoned that idea and installed seven 20” rigid bar lights that light the garage evenly without being blinding if you look at them plus pretty economical.

Maybe I wrote it wrong the light bulb is for outside the garage, would never take such a bulb inside it

The_Driver
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djozz wrote:

I have 6 of these in various places in my home, 4 in 2700K, 2 in 3000K, 30 degree versions. The tint is about perfect and the beam really smooth.

I measured a 3000K one (center of the beam but there’s no visible tint gradient over the beam) and they are indeed 97CRI and perfect tint:
!{width:30%}https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4911/46636711911_903744579b_n.jpg!

It should be noted though that these are the current, most high-end halogen replacement spots that Philips offers (“Master LED Expert Color”). I have some of these with 4000K. The biggest downside is that they don’t offer wider emition angles.

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I have one of those Philips MR16 halogen replacement bulbs. They are quite expensive, and many transformers just won’t cope with the low current. In the end I found cheaper high CRI replacement LEDs that replace the entire recessed lighting can and transformer, and have magnetic bezels that are easily swapped out for decorative ones.

I got rid of all CFLs in my house when one shattered in 2012, releasing who knows how much mercury near my newborn girl. CFLs can’t be banned quickly enough as far as I am concerned.

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The Philips halogen replacement shown above has a GU10 base. It runs directly on mains without a transformer.

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Vegas LED Fan wrote:
The point where LEDs became more cost effective than CFLs has already passed because the price has dropped so much. I could go to two local “dollar plus” stores and buy cheap LED bulbs for a dollar or two. I don’t expect them to last as long as the bulbs I bought overseas because the components in them are so cheap.

Right now I can buy Philips LED bulb (60W equivalent) for about $2 in one of the local supermarkets. It’s a promo but it lasts for a few weeks now. Previously I bought the “100W” ones (1521lm) for $2,5 each. They have much better tint than noname bulbs and I’m pretty sure they will last much longer.
Lexel][quote=Vegas LED Fan wrote:

Also will upgrade my living room
bought last week

CRI97
445lumens compared to 4 year old Philips spots with CRI80 and just 350 lumens
http://www.lighting.philips.de/prof/led-lampen-und-roehren/led-reflektor...

What I don’t like is that there’s no middle ground. You can buy either well priced and bright 80CRI bulbs (or sometimes much less than 80) or those very high CRI ones which are extremely rare, very expensive and noticeably less bright. There’s nothing in the middle.
funkychateau wrote:
I paid $5.99 each for my last two four-packs of Feit Electric filament LED bulbs ($1.50 per bulb). I’m happy with the price, appearance, and fitment in standard lamps/sockets. This light is possibly a little warm for my taste.

Did you buy them online or locally?
fazalmajid
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These are the recessed lighting replacements I bought;
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LYZ0BOZ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailp...

I verified the CRI 93 rating with my UPRtek spectro. They are very easy to install, the hardest part is removing the old cans (whoever remodeled my house in 2006 used Elite Lighting, which are complete garbage, and the transformers even worse).

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phantom23 wrote:
What I don’t like is that there’s no middle ground. You can buy either well priced and bright 80CRI bulbs (or sometimes much less than 80) or those very high CRI ones which are extremely rare, very expensive and noticeably less bright. There’s nothing in the middle.

You make it sound more extreme than it is. These 97CRI Philips spots I bought for 7.5 euro a piece in a dutch budget webstore (so readily available for normal people), that is twice the price of a 80CRI Philips bulb but still very affordable for what you get: if these do not need replacing for the next 10 years they cost next to nothing compared to other costs I have around the house. I checked the efficiency of these against a latest gen. common 80CRI Philips GU10 spot (both 2700K), and it is not that much less: 68lm/W against 76lm/W.

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People need to stop that needs to be cheap thinking

Those GU10 bulbs will outlast every cheap bulb by far as they use high temperature components in the converter, they are specced at 40000h and 100 degree celsius

You get on top a CRI that is awesome, no ugly tints like in many cheap bulbs, just aknowledge that a quality bulb costs money, sure as its Philips you pay more for the brands name, but still true you get what you pay for

And the chineese companies seem slowly to follow investing in development of better drivers and using high CRI, but those bulbs are also getting more expensive

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I have replaced almost all lights with LEDs in the house except the bathroom. The exhaust fan doesn’t collect enough steam and i am worried the LED bulbs will short out.

For me personally i have bought Phillips, Osram, Mirabella (Australian brand), Aldi bulbs Aldi use different suppliers per country? (Australian company made in China for these Aldi bulbs) plus 2 other generic home brand bulb from a hardware store here.
So far for me the best bulbs have been Mirabella which are generic bulbs from what i can tell best performing bulb but not best CRI. The Phillips bulb under perform when they get hot bad design almost no heat sinking with a plastic case plus they are over rated output wise i done my own lux testing. Probably the biggest seller here are Phillips because they are stocked at a few places.

I have an Aldi bulb in my room that is 3000k 90+ Cri 1500 lumens. I also have a 1500 lumens Phillips bulb in the kitchen and the Aldi bulb performs much better the weight difference is so huge between both bulbs.

For us here CFL and LED bulbs are the same price so its a much smarter choice to chose LEDs. I got a bunch of Osram 1200 lumen bulbs for $2 each but they are cold white but its fine for outside.

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everydaysurvivalgear wrote:
I have replaced almost all lights with LEDs in the house except the bathroom. The exhaust fan doesn’t collect enough steam and i am worried the LED bulbs will short out.

For me personally i have bought Phillips, Osram, Mirabella (Australian brand), Aldi bulbs Aldi use different suppliers per country? (Australian company made in China for these Aldi bulbs) plus 2 other generic home brand bulb from a hardware store here.
So far for me the best bulbs have been Mirabella which are generic bulbs from what i can tell best performing bulb but not best CRI. The Phillips bulb under perform when they get hot bad design almost no heat sinking with a plastic case plus they are over rated output wise i done my own lux testing. Probably the biggest seller here are Phillips because they are stocked at a few places.

I have an Aldi bulb in my room that is 3000k 90+ Cri 1500 lumens. I also have a 1500 lumens Phillips bulb in the kitchen and the Aldi bulb performs much better the weight difference is so huge between both bulbs.

For us here CFL and LED bulbs are the same price so its a much smarter choice to chose LEDs. I got a bunch of Osram 1200 lumen bulbs for $2 each but they are cold white but its fine for outside.

Problem with Philips is that they have 3 totally different qualities
the cheap usual end customer quality
better for commercial lightning
and top performing ultra reliable commercial lightning also very high CRI

I would not recomment or buy the end customer quality any more,
as I have written above first in 2014 they came with full aluminum body later only plastic when I had to replace a defective bulb with the same type ordered in 2017

I have seen teardowns of Osram and Philips light bulbs in the cheap customer quality made 2012-2016 and they really do not look good at all on the electronics LEDs were good in CRI and tints, only better than ultra cheap China stuff which comes with dump PSU and tint lottery

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djozz wrote:
You make it sound more extreme than it is. These 97CRI Philips spots I bought for 7.5 euro a piece in a dutch budget webstore (so readily available for normal people), that is twice the price of a 80CRI Philips bulb but still very affordable for what you get: if these do not need replacing for the next 10 years they cost next to nothing compared to other costs I have around the house. I checked the efficiency of these against a latest gen. common 80CRI Philips GU10 spot (both 2700K), and it is not that much less: 68lm/W against 76lm/W.

It is pretty extreme, I found one in just two online stores for 10-14 euros shipped. Another bad thing is they’re GU10 only. E27/A60 are equally rare and even more expensive.
Lexel wrote:
People need to stop that needs to be cheap thinking

Not everyone lives in a country with one of the highest wages in the world that allow them not to cheap out on things. When a regular halogen bulb costs $0.5, 80CRI LED sells for $2 and 97 CRI is $10 while making much less lumens, it does make a lot of difference.
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phantom23 wrote:

Not everyone lives in a country with one of the highest wages in the world that allow them not to cheap out on things.
Not all Germans are rich and they probably pay a truck load of taxes too.
(just saying)
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phantom23 wrote:
djozz wrote:
You make it sound more extreme than it is. These 97CRI Philips spots I bought for 7.5 euro a piece in a dutch budget webstore (so readily available for normal people), that is twice the price of a 80CRI Philips bulb but still very affordable for what you get: if these do not need replacing for the next 10 years they cost next to nothing compared to other costs I have around the house. I checked the efficiency of these against a latest gen. common 80CRI Philips GU10 spot (both 2700K), and it is not that much less: 68lm/W against 76lm/W.
It is pretty extreme, I found one in just two online stores for 10-14 euros shipped. Another bad thing is they’re GU10 only. E27/A60 are equally rare and even more expensive.
Lexel wrote:
People need to stop that needs to be cheap thinking
Not everyone lives in a country with one of the highest wages in the world that allow them not to cheap out on things. When a regular halogen bulb costs $0.5, 80CRI LED sells for $2 and 97 CRI is $10 while making much less lumens, it does make a lot of difference.

so the Philips CRI same bulb and same color
its naturally high CRI costs lumens, but the light quality gained is worth a lot

CRI80 621 Lumen
http://www.lighting.philips.de/prof/led-lampen-und-roehren/led-reflektor...

CRI92 500lm
http://www.lighting.philips.de/prof/led-lampen-und-roehren/led-reflektor...

CRI97 440 Lumen (site 2)
http://www.lighting.philips.de/prof/led-lampen-und-roehren/led-reflektor...

and it does not help complaining about a bulb which costs 10$ but will likely outlast 3-4 cheap China bulbs that dry out their input caps within a few thousand hours running as hot

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^ Very true.
Also, because cheap LED lamps run too hot the LEDs wear down pretty fast too.
We have 3 E27 lights in our garden.
They are all 2 Watts.
I built 2 of them myself for 12 Volts AC from a transformer (ground leak problem with 240 V) using a rectifier and a 300mA buck driver, a heat sink and 4× 5730 in 2S4P configuration on a LED board.
The other one is a cheap stock E27 LED bulb with no cooling.
The stock bulb was never as bright as the self built ones, but after a year now, it’s considerably less bright.
And so cheap may turn out to be not so cheap…

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The cost of led bulbs is far outwheighed by the electricity costs of normal incandescent bulbs.

The Philips Master spots cost around 7€ for Germans when bought online. Thats not cheap, but not too bad either. Good, bright light means higher quality of life.

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The_Driver wrote:
The cost of led bulbs is far outwheighed by the electricity costs of normal incandscent bulbs.

The Philips Master spots cost around 7€ for Germans when bought online. Thats not cheap, but not too bad either. Good, bright light means higher quality of life.


Still, one could argue that in the winter incandescent lights help heat the room. Smile

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