Manafont XM-L drop-in - only 750mA on high?

47 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel
Manafont XM-L drop-in - only 750mA on high?

Today I received Manafont's XM-L drop-in (http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/ultrafire-cree-t6-3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max-p-5178).

I checked it with my multimeter and an Ultrafire 2400mAh @ 4.1V (that's what my XTAR WP2 is giving it at the moment), and it gave:

750 mA @ high

220 mA @ med

 50 mA @ low

Is this reasonable?

The reviews on Manafont and here talk about 2.5-3.2A...

Edited by: Haggai on 03/13/2011 - 10:06
Don
Don's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 months 4 days ago
Joined: 01/12/2010 - 16:32
Posts: 6617
Location: Scotland

Mine is over 3A, it should be a lot more than 750mA. Just measured it at 3.153A with a 4.18V 18650.   

My KD T6 dropin pulls 2.285A

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

Andi
Andi's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 day ago
Joined: 01/22/2011 - 08:08
Posts: 333
Location: Germany

Your multimeter is fault, or rather the leads.

The dropin has definitely more than 3A @ High.

 

I measure mA with very short and very thick wires:

f

and nevertheless...more pushing = better contact = more mA

 

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

I don't think it's really the leads (although obviously they have a part in the low reading).

I took your advice and made leads from 16AWG wire, about 5cm long. I even enlarged the contact area by making a loop at the wire ends. These should be able to pass through enough current, I think.

They gave:

1.1A @ high

250mA @ med

50mA @ low

Not very good either.

Budgeteer
Budgeteer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 08/24/2010 - 02:19
Posts: 3087
Location: Slovenia (EU)

Ok, just to confirm the readings how does the output brightness do?

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

I don't have a lux meter, but comparing to a Q5 drop-in from tMart which draws about 700mA @ high - it is brighter (but not by a great deal).

The Q5 is brighter than my C30 from DX, drawing about 600mA.

All tested with the 16AWG leads I made.

 

Here are some comparison shots (at 60cm from the wall, 1/250th sec exposure):

From left to right: Manafont XM-L @ high, tMart Q5 @ high, DX C30 (P4) full flood, GoingGear iTP A3 R5 @ high

All with fresh batteries from charger: XM-L, Q5 - Ultrafire 2400mAh @ 4.10V; C30 - 3xGP Recyko @ 1.40V each; iTP - GP Recyko @ 1.40V

(the tint is much greener than what I see)

 

1/1000th sec:

 

1/4000th sec:

arenat
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/22/2010 - 01:00
Posts: 367
Location: Argentina
Crap cell I guess...where you got it ?
Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

From the tMart deal - http://budgetlightforum.cz.cc/node/1228

I got two of them, both exhibit the same behaviour.

How can I test the cells without a hobby charger?

 

Maybe I should also test with a 3xAAA configuration. Should be interesting.

 

btw, I made some tests outdoor, and the XM-L is far superior to the Q5 and the others.

I'll take some shots tomorrow, when it's dark again. (I don't have my camera with me right now)

Don
Don's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 months 4 days ago
Joined: 01/12/2010 - 16:32
Posts: 6617
Location: Scotland

Give it a go with 3AAA. If it is about the same brightness then you almost certainly have a bad cell. If you have a light meter - a photographic one will do fine for this - take a note of the exposure or brightness with each. The 3AAA configuration should give quite a lot less than the 18650.

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

Rolz
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 19 hours ago
Joined: 01/25/2011 - 19:55
Posts: 975
Location: Australia
I ordered one of the same dropins from monafont late Jan and I still haven't had it arrive. I've emailed them and so far no response. Hopefully it arrives this week as it's well overdue. Reading this thread it also worries me a bit that possibly the new batch have a poor driver. In any case I just want the drop in I ordered Sad
Trancersteve
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: 11/02/2010 - 06:39
Posts: 130
Location: London, UK

How much current draw do your other lights draw from those cells Haggai?

I will be seriously annoyed if they have changed the driver, I only ordered one of these Manafont drop-ins 2 weeks ago. Frown

I wear my sunglasses at night.

Foy
Foy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/02/2011 - 17:56
Posts: 3009
Location: Las Vegas

After everything I've read about the Manafont XM-L (sku 5720) I'm anxious for some low-price-high-output goodness. (ordered a week ago)  Oh well; if a driver change is necessary, I may have to see how rusty my soldering skills have become.

Foy

No referral links and nothing embedded . . . ever.

                      &nbsp

Budgeteer
Budgeteer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 08/24/2010 - 02:19
Posts: 3087
Location: Slovenia (EU)

Looks like the tmart deal involved subpar cells. Try a decent one.

If you have a chance try 3XAA eneloops!

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

Unfortunately, I don't have any other 18650s, and I doubt any new order would be here in time for a return from Manafont.

I don't think I can take the pill apart, to take a look at the driver - the back plate is soldered to the pill and the emitter has some protective plastic disc that seems to be glued to the pill.

Some photos, anyway. The emitter is not centered properly and is not soldered straight on its base.

 

 

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

Trancersteve wrote:

How much current draw do your other lights draw from those cells Haggai?

I only have the two Q5s from tMart (my other lights are AA/AAA), and they both draw 500mA with my multimeter test leads, or 700mA with the 16AWG leads I made.

Budgeteer
Budgeteer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 08/24/2010 - 02:19
Posts: 3087
Location: Slovenia (EU)

Haggai wrote:

Unfortunately, I don't have any other 18650s, and I doubt any new order would be here in time for a return from Manafont.

I don't think I can take the pill apart, to take a look at the driver - the back plate is soldered to the pill and the emitter has some protective plastic disc that seems to be glued to the pill.

Some photos, anyway. The emitter is not centered properly and is not soldered straight on its base.

 

 

Well you can try a different battery when you have the chance. If happens that the dropin is faulty contact manafont. They have replaced a burnt R5 to me quite over the paypal protection limit. Actually i would be surprised if you ever need to resort to paypal. Perhaps inform them of the annoyance now and after testing is done ask them how can it be solved if needed at all. Looks like lowly cell to me. I have yet to get something not up to spec from them but might happen one day.

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

Ok, I tested with the 3xAAA, and it gave me about 300-400mA @ high.

But I'm really not sure I tested it well, I could barely attach the battery pack to the drop-in, and I used just the thin test leads and some thin wire crocodiles.

I also tried the 3xAAA with the 16AWG wire I have, and it gave me 1.5A, but the LED didn't turn on.

I later tested the drop-in again with the 18650, and it gave the same readings as before - ~700mA with the multimeter test leads. (and ~ 300-400mA with the crocodiles, the same setup as I used with the 3xAAA, so I guess the crocodiles really limit the current flow).

 

I wish my magnets would arrive already, and I can make some more reliable measurements.

arenat
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/22/2010 - 01:00
Posts: 367
Location: Argentina

While I still suspect of the cells,  I have one UF 3000ma which not delivered more than 1.3A, these drop-in is faulty, the bad position of the emitter compromise his ability to spread the heat since the central path is misaligned

 

Could be  reflowed but is not a task for a newie, probably you would ruin it...contact the seller , with the pic is enough...

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

I contacted Manafont, told them about the situation and asked how much time would they be willing to wait, still waiting for the answer.

I'll probably order the batteries from them, so which ones should I choose: http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/protected-trustfire-18650-37v-2400mah-rechargeable-batteries-flame-2pcsset-p-5560 or http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/ultrafire-icr-18650-37v-2500mah-rechargeable-batteries-protected-pair-pack-p-5120 ?

 

btw, according to http://lux.yi.org/batt/ , the Ultrafire LC 2400mAh (which I have) "Doesn't handle higher currents well".

This may explain the situation I'm experiencing...

 

 

arenat, thanks, I'll include the photo of the misaligned emitter when they respond.

Budgeteer
Budgeteer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 08/24/2010 - 02:19
Posts: 3087
Location: Slovenia (EU)

The first trustfires (flame ones) are generally well accepted and i would go for those.

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

Andi
Andi's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 day ago
Joined: 01/22/2011 - 08:08
Posts: 333
Location: Germany

hmm, the led-protector don´t look good.

maybe this damaged the connection between emitter & board a little bit ???

you can lift the led-protector with a needle, it´s not glued so much.

Only led/board is glued VERY strong!

 

I have put the driver out of the manafont dropin and put it in a other XM-L flashlight, there i measure now over 5A @high (thick body, good contact).

In the original dropin i ever measure much over 3A Wink

 

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

Don wrote:

Give it a go with 3AAA. If it is about the same brightness then you almost certainly have a bad cell. If you have a light meter - a photographic one will do fine for this - take a note of the exposure or brightness with each. The 3AAA configuration should give quite a lot less than the 18650.

So, I couldn't use a 3xAAA properly, but did some measurements using my camera.

Setup: 1m from wall, measuring at the center of the spot, spot fills camera sensor.

Camera: Fuji S6500fd, 58mm lens, full zoom, spot metering, F 4.9, 0 EV compensation, 100 ISO, some constant WB setting (fluorescent #3, whatever that means).

Results are for shutter speed, in seconds:

C30 P4flood1/20
 throw1/640
iTP A3 R5low1
 med1/5
 high1/15
Q5 18650low1/30
 med1/160
 high1/320
XM-L 18650low1/20
 med1/125
 high1/320

The XM-L on low and med show very low frequency PWM, so the readings are approximate (tried to take the highest the camera picked).

The readings for the C30 and iTP were made with slightly used batteries - voltage about 1.35V.

The 18650 was the same for both Q5 and XM-L, fresh from the charger @ 4.10V, dropped to 4.03V after I finished testing.

 

The XM-L and Q5 readings are identical, but the XM-L has a much larger hot spot, and the spill is brighter, so I guess it's kind of OK.

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

So, I finally had the time (and darkness) to take some pictures outside.

First, some pictures from the yard (all with 4 seconds exposure, f2.8, 100 iso), length of the builsing ~20m, distance to nearest tree/branch ~10m:

 

Next some photos of the ground floor - 1.5 seconds exposure, f2.8, 100 iso, distance to wall ~15m:

(sorry about the mess - you can blame my neighbours for it)

 

 

So, what do you say?

Bright enough?

Should I ask for replacement simply because of the defects of the emitter as seen in the macro shot in a aprevious post?

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

Oops, forgot to say - all of the above pictures are with an OP reflector for both Q5 and XM-L.

I just replaced the smooth reflector the XM-L drop-in came with with a reflector from one of the Q5 drop-ins.

UDO
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 hours ago
Joined: 10/06/2010 - 14:10
Posts: 224
Location: Slovenia

I think that is bright enough and from my expirience your multimeter or the leads must be faulty. That looks at least 2A draw of the xml...

Foy
Foy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/02/2011 - 17:56
Posts: 3009
Location: Las Vegas

It's funny how yet another group of beam shots show the XM-L totally destroying every light in the comparison in terms of brightness.  Also, all three of my XM-Ls have the same green tint as we see here.  Not a deal killer for me but it defintely has a slight green tint.

Foy

No referral links and nothing embedded . . . ever.

                      &nbsp

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

Yes, it's plenty bright Smile

 

Now the main concern I have is the emitter - do you think it could fail in the future or could emit less light (draw less current?) than possible because of how it was assembled?

Take a look again at this picture, tell me what you think:

Budgeteer
Budgeteer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 08/24/2010 - 02:19
Posts: 3087
Location: Slovenia (EU)

Same idea here, since MF actually care what they get from manufacturers. I would notify them at least. The emitter should work fine but the assembly is atrocious.

kragmutt wrote:

They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.

Haggai
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/06/2011 - 04:05
Posts: 1012
Location: Israel

Yes, I sent them an email about it, including photos of the emitter.

Let's see how it goes from here. (looks good right now, I really like their responsive and helpful support service)

brted
brted's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 2 hours ago
Joined: 01/12/2010 - 19:44
Posts: 2371
Location: Atlanta

Those are great pictures of the LED. It looks okay to me. I don't know that it matters if it is a little crooked as long as the connection is good, which it seems to be given the beam shots.

SashiX
SashiX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 6 months ago
Joined: 10/07/2010 - 15:46
Posts: 2045
Location: Spain

Man, that XML is really bright Shocked (comparing to your Q5). Perhaps it could be brighter, but I think it's bright enough.

Pages