Lets get a final conclusion about if deeper engage of enlan's axis lock is better than the edge engage of ganzo's axis lock

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xatu
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Lets get a final conclusion about if deeper engage of enlan's axis lock is better than the edge engage of ganzo's axis lock

Time ago we spoke about the deeper engage of enlan’s axis lock vs the soft/edge engage of the ganzo’s axis lock. If you have an enlan and a ganzo with axis lock you can see much more milimeters engaged pushing the top blade on the enlans than on the ganzos. And the “snap” of the enlans is louder (much) too.

Well, really this make the ganzo’s axis lock a bad design? is it a weak system?… can the enlans with axis lock pass hard test without desengaging the lock than ganzo’s can’t pass?.

Is it as bad as it seems the axis from ganzo? (yes, veeery smooth but can you confide in it?). And is it as good as it seems the axis from others brand like enlan or srm?.

Like i said on others threads, i have an enlan el04 and a ganzo g710 and the ganzo’s axis seems a toy if i compare it with the enlan’s (deeper engaged and hard snap for enlan, smooth and almost nothing engaged and almost without snap on ganzos).

Can we get a FINAL conclusion about that?

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Edited by: xatu on 12/29/2012 - 18:46
scaru
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There won't be a final conclusion, I will add my Ganzo axis lock has failed me; but my Enlan hasn't. 

eebowler
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I’ve only owned one enlan knife (El04) and the axis lock was badly implemented. It engaged only about a mm of the knife and a hard knock on the back of the open blade would close it. I had to open up the knife and file away at the engaging spot for the lock to function better. Now the axis lock closes all the way and is much safer Smile

My gratitude to those who are willing and able to help others (in whatever way you can)! Being human is more than just existing for yourself. Smile

CheapThrills
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Had both, Ganzo and Enlan. Sold Enlan away, IMO better feel on Ganzo’s axis lock…
(ganzo g704, Enlan el-02)

Pinetreebbs
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If you like the axis lock get a Benchmade, it’s their design.

blueb8llz
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Pretty cool- i think i will buy one ofbthese budget knives- so ganzo and enlan are the top two?is there a site you guys go to buy these’ or just aliexpress?

trooplewis
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Pinetreebbs wrote:
If you like the axis lock get a Benchmade, it's their design.
I'd have to agree with this post. If you want an axis lock knife and value your phalanges, cheap knives are not the way to go. At least if you use it as a serious tool; if it's just for the desk drawer and to open Amazon deliveries, either knife will work just fine.

Rats, finally sold my 2010 509hp Mustang...now I can buy more lights!

Sold the red one too! Now guess what I drive, doing my penance for 500 hp commuters...

http://dreammustang.com/

http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac47/Ha

xatu
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Yes, i know benchmade did the axis but the thread is about budget knives like ganzo and enlan.

Well, it seems that we don’t reach a valid conclusion about if the axis lock of ganzo is worst or better than the enlan. But a question: do you think that there is a relation between the milimeters engaged by the axis and the possible fail lock?.
If there is a real relation then ganzo has a bad/weak implemented axis lock and enlan a good implementation but somebody has done lock up test from its ganzo or enlan with axis lock?.

I was thinking to buy another ganzo knife last model but when i compare the axis with the enlan’s i don’t trust very much on it has a safe lock up and it closes on my hands…

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xatu
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It’s enough for me… and i have 3 ganzos!!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqLrnQ818hw minute 15. (Only seeing the images can see it, i don’t speak russian).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2DD20RSa5E

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That’s pretty clear. Xatu, you can right click on the video to “copy url at current time”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqLrnQ818hw&feature=player_detailpage#t=900

xatu
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Yes, may be that’s better!
Thanks.

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isti242
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The QC is not as consistent in this budget category as in the higher price ranges that’s why you should test every invidual knife by a spine whack before using it for heavy duty tasks, stabbing etc.

Regarding the quality of the Ganzos with axis lock my G710 has a better (smoother) action than my Benchmade 550. So you can find a Ganzo with a proper axis lock too. Smile

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Has anyone tried opening up an axis-lock knife to adjust the omega springs to get better lockup/engagement of tang? It may just need some small adjustment.

isti242
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It’s quite easy to disassemble a Ganzo axis-lock because of the cut-out in the liners:

For example the Enlan EL02 doesn’t have that cut-out so you have to unscrew one end of the axis bar to push it through the liners. (I sanded smooth both ends of the axis bars on my axis Enlans so I gave up the disassembling at that point.)

xatu
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isti242 wrote:
The QC is not as consistent in this budget category as in the higher price ranges that’s why you should test every invidual knife by a spine whack before using it for heavy duty tasks, stabbing etc.

Regarding the quality of the Ganzos with axis lock my G710 has a better (smoother) action than my Benchmade 550. So you can find a Ganzo with a proper axis lock too. Smile

Yes, my g710 is incredible smooth but only engages 1 mm on the tang. My g704 engange a liittle more but it is not as smooth (the pivot screw is not the solution) and my enlan el04 isn’t smooth at all but engage a lot a lot more than the others and the sound “clack!!” is pretty impressive and safe.

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8steve88
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Chloe wrote:
Has anyone tried opening up an axis-lock knife to adjust the omega springs to get better lockup/engagement of tang? It may just need some small adjustment.

I’ve had myEnlan EL-04MCT’s apart, they were both a bit too strong on the Omega springs, but were easy to adjust by bending.
This involved removing the scales to be able to get enough movement on the springs to bend them, they are easy enough to remove with the scales off. The Torx screws were all held with Loctite and needed gentle heating with a “jet” type lighter on the stand-offs to unscrew, a soldering iron might work as well.

My Ganzo G-712 was also a bit on the tough side, being a lazy git I stuck a pair of needle nosed pliers, anly oe point, through the slide hole in front of the lock bar, blade open – lock engaged, and levered the lock bar rearwards as far as it would go. This was enough to bend the Omega springs and lighten the action.
There was enough travel on the lock bar to bend thev springs and it still locks the blade firmly.

The Axis lock is safe as long as the lock bar engages on the flat potion of the tang, if the lock bar doesn’t rest on a flat then you can adjust by dremel or file until the lock bar goes far enough forward to engage the flat. Then you might have to bend the Omega springs to put more forwards pressure on the lock bar.

The Enlan EL-04MCT’s that I have, the lock bar moves further onto the flat portion of the tang. The Ganzo engages, softly, but it does engage.
Because of the shape of the G-712’s blade it is only going to get used for light cutting anyway so even a light engagement is enough. The pointy nature of the blade is too weak at the tip for anything else and I have plenty of other knives better suited to heavy cutting.

If you are in danger of the lock failing, any lock, then use a fixed blade instead. The Axis lock when made and adjusted correctly is one of the strongest types of lock that there is.

xatu
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8steve88 wrote:
Chloe wrote:
Has anyone tried opening up an axis-lock knife to adjust the omega springs to get better lockup/engagement of tang? It may just need some small adjustment.

I’ve had myEnlan EL-04MCT’s apart, they were both a bit too strong on the Omega springs, but were easy to adjust by bending.
This involved removing the scales to be able to get enough movement on the springs to bend them, they are easy enough to remove with the scales off. The Torx screws were all held with Loctite and needed gentle heating with a “jet” type lighter on the stand-offs to unscrew, a soldering iron might work as well.

My Ganzo G-712 was also a bit on the tough side, being a lazy git I stuck a pair of needle nosed pliers, anly oe point, through the slide hole in front of the lock bar, blade open – lock engaged, and levered the lock bar rearwards as far as it would go. This was enough to bend the Omega springs and lighten the action.
There was enough travel on the lock bar to bend thev springs and it still locks the blade firmly.

The Axis lock is safe as long as the lock bar engages on the flat potion of the tang, if the lock bar doesn’t rest on a flat then you can adjust by dremel or file until the lock bar goes far enough forward to engage the flat. Then you might have to bend the Omega springs to put more forwards pressure on the lock bar.

The Enlan EL-04MCT’s that I have, the lock bar moves further onto the flat portion of the tang. The Ganzo engages, softly, but it does engage.
Because of the shape of the G-712’s blade it is only going to get used for light cutting anyway so even a light engagement is enough. The pointy nature of the blade is too weak at the tip for anything else and I have plenty of other knives better suited to heavy cutting.

If you are in danger of the lock failing, any lock, then use a fixed blade instead. The Axis lock when made and adjusted correctly is one of the strongest types of lock that there is.

Your g712 enganges only a bit too? like the g711 of the videos?. I’m awaiting my g712 still, but i’m starint to see the ganzo brand from another point of view, a bad point of view.

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8steve88
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xatu wrote:
Your g712 enganges only a bit too? like the g711 of the videos?. I’m awaiting my g712 still, but i’m starint to see the ganzo brand from another point of view, a bad point of view.

Yes, about 2mm on to the flat portion of the tang, the Enlan’s about 3mm. I feel that this is plenty. As the lock pin wears it will engage further up the tang, a feature of the Axis lock is that the engagement doesn’t suffer as the lock bar and tang wear.
There is about 2-3mm space on the slot in the liners where the lock bar moves back to unlock and forwards to engage. If the lock bar reaches the end of it’s travel in this slot then there will be blade play in the up/down plane but the blade will still be secure. This can be remedied by elongating the slot towards the front so the lock bar moves further up the tang. The tang has an upward slope towards the blade. there is about 6mm of travel left for slotting the liners before the lock bar runs out of adjustment.
If passing the knife on you may want to leave a note for your great-great-grandchildren because the the adjustment wouldn’t be used up in a lifetime of normal care and use unless you work where there is abrasive dust.
The Axis lock is a very strong design relying on lock pin/liners/blade tang/Omega spring, on the Enlan/Bee, SanRenMu and Ganzo knives that I’ve got, 1xBee EL-04MCT, 1xEnlanEL-04MCT, 1xSanRenMu LB-763 1xGanzo G-712 all the Axis locks are good and strong, only the SRM-763 didn’t need the Omega springs bending to weaken them, they hurt my fingers to operate and that isn’t the way Axis locks should be, with a bit of adjustment they’re fine.
The pivots also needed slackening slightly and lubricating to swing freely.
Don’t forget we are talking low cost knives, in the U.K. a Benchmade Mini Griptillian costs £63 – $100 my Enlan EL-04MCT cost me a quarter of that, with Micarta scales not a plastic handle. I don’t mind adjusting and lubing my knives, a small price to pay for some very high value knives.

Edit ———- The Benchmade Bedlam that the Ganzo G-712 is a “clone” of costs £155 in the U.K. that’s $250. :exmark: I wonder why I chose the Ganzo G-712 for $18 – £11.35

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Well, when my g712 arrives i will compare the three ganzos about the locking system. Now my enlan el04mct engages a lot more than the ganzos and has a louder (a lot) sound when open the blade.
I’m starting to think than the g712 will be my last ganzo. But i have a problem, there is not models from enlan that i like (i have all that i like), srm are too small, navy… i don’t confide in it, inron… psss i have the my803 and the lock system is a little bad, may be harnds? may be a mora knife… mmmm Who knows… :bigsmile:

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8steve88
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The lock on the Ganzo G-712 does close with a softer sound than the Enlans, unless you put a bit of wrist action into it.
I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with the Ganzo’s lock, it’s just a different view on how the Axis lock should be engineered.
This is my first Ganzo and it won’t be my last, there’s at least 6 others that I want to add to my collection. :bigsmile:

xatu
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But if you engage 1mm on the tang cleary is less safe than if i put 3mm. Almost you could close with your hands staying locked if there isn’t almost touch between tang and lockbar.
Well, we’ll see…

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8steve88
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xatu wrote:
But if you engage 1mm on the tang cleary is less safe than if i put 3mm. Almost you could close with your hands staying locked if there isn’t almost touch between tang and lockbar. Well, we’ll see…

You could always strip it down and gently remove metal from the tang’s flat section but as they are carefully designed to have a slight slope upwards towards the blade you would have to be very careful not to overdo it. that would work for the tang. If it’s the lockbar hitting the end of it’s travel in the slot then elongating the slots in the liners would work.

As long as the lockbar is on the flat portion of the tang then it will lock the blade in position, as the lockbar and tang wear-in then the lock-up becomes stronger.

If I had access to a lathe then I’d make a new lockbar slightly smaller diameter.

Sam78
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i had the same concerns, so i decided that this was going to NOT be a hard use knife. btw here is a link to a guy torture testing a Ganzo g704 (multiple videos). very interesting results.

xatu
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Sam78 wrote:
i had the same concerns, so i decided that this was going to NOT be a hard use knife. btw here is a link to a guy torture testing a Ganzo g704 (multiple videos). very interesting results.

And… where is the link?

Perhaps the russian guy and his hard tests?

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edeekeos
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nvm, this thread is ancient. :Sp

Sam78
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sorry, i must have forgotten to include the link. here it is:
http://youtu.be/X36Vyh4IyE4

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Here is how you can tell which will hold up better.

Bedlam Test

Sam78
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also here are teo hard use tests, one on Ganzo g704 and the other on the Benchmade Adamas. The spine whack test is what was interesting to me.

Ganzo g704: http://youtu.be/7T0EIAjQ61Y

BM Adamas: http://youtu.be/LWz_JLXgIL0

btw, it’s in Russian but you get the idea.

8steve88
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Sam78 wrote:
also here are teo hard use tests, one on Ganzo g704 and the other on the Benchmade Adamas. The spine whack test is what was interesting to me.

Ganzo g704: http://youtu.be/7T0EIAjQ61Y

BM Adamas: http://youtu.be/LWz_JLXgIL0

btw, it’s in Russian but you get the idea.

There are captions in English on both. Smile

light junkie
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Just say what the results of the spine tests and you tube videos were?.My internet has been slowed down a d I can’t download any videos thanks.

Lj

Sam78
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light junkie wrote:
Just say what the results of the spine tests and you tube videos were?.My internet has been slowed down a d I can’t download any videos thanks.
Sorry for the delayed response. the Ganzo g704 axis lock failed after a few spine wacks but the BM Adamas axis lock never failed. both knives were. brutally torture tested. the Ganzo g704 held it’s own against the BM but the benchmade was the superior winner.