FAA on Li-Ion fire in commercial aircraft

[verge]

I’m not really sure if this should fall in Rechargeable Batteries forum.
If the moderators deemed that it should be move somewhere else, please feel free to do so.

Having nothing much to do, I chanced upon this You Tube video;

Extinguishing In-Flight Laptop Computer Fires - Lithium Battery Thermal Runway

FAA - Federal Aviation Administration
Extinguishing In-Flight Laptop Computer Fires - Lithium Battery Thermal Runaway

Which led me to google and found this FAA report. The report about Li-Ion battery is at pages 6-9 of this report.

Nov12SystemsMin.pdf

INTERNATIONAL AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS FIRE PROTECTION WORKING GROUP MEETING
November 14-15, 2012
Hosted by Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Long Beach, California
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2012

….

Lithium Fire Scenario – D. Blake

….

Lithium Battery Cargo Awareness – D. Noe

….

Full-Scale Lithium Battery Testing – T. Maloney

….

Passive Fire Protection for Lithium Battery Shipments – T. Maloney

….

“the FAA wasinterested in developed research that was already being used inside the NASA’s International Space
Station in the form of a fine water mist extinguisher created and patented by ADA Technologies.”

I’ve been charging my Li-Ion batteries and wonder about fire extinguishers that will effectively put out a Li-Ion fire.

[nikanon]

A friend of mine is working for a small company selling a new form of fire extinguisher, which can also be used in a preventive way (read cover every possible fire source with this stuff).

It’s some kind of granulate, you can fill cable channels or even a whole room full of sensitive machinery and equipment.
This granulate can even handle the high temperatures of burning metal and it’s reusable.

Funny thing is, they tried to shorten a Li-Ion cell used by the automotive industry to let it go ‘poof’ and this cell was giving them a real hard time, several efforts had to be done, they made it in the end but it was not as spectacular as assumed by them.

The problem is, this extinguisher and method is not suited to be used in an aircraft, because you need space for that.
It may be suited for the transportation of sensitive stuff.

[verge]

From the You Tube video, FAA test showed that spraying the li-ion battery fire with Halon 1211 fire extinguisher and then dousing with water is the best way to put out the fire and prevent the other li-ion batteries from reaching thermal runaway temperature. In another test, it appeared that using water alone extinguished the fire and prevented the other batteries from overheating.

This water fire extinguisher probably led them to the NASA’s water mist fire extinguisher developed by ADA Technologies.

Now, this water mist fire extinguisher… I’m wondering how technologically complicated could this fire extinguisher be? Perhaps, a garden plastic water sprayer can do the same job?

[Rufusbduck]

Just speculating but the mist may get the job done with a minimum of water used. Might prevent a crisis like Apollo 13.

[verge]

The objective in their extinguishing inflight fires from li-ion batteries was (1) to put the fire out and (2) prevent other batteries from overheating and from starting another fire. Also, in their test, flooding the batteries with water did the job of extinguishing the fire and preventing other batteries from overheating.

I wonder if this water mist fire extinguisher is another of those overpriced NASA gadgets.

I’m also puzzled by the cardboard box container mentioned in the report as one of the fire control methods in li-ion transport in aircraft.

[dthrckt]

mist might help reduce airborne particles

[verge]

After seeing the FAA tests on li-ion battery fire, I am seriously thinking of putting my 18650 battery in a cradle and away from the charger during charger. I am also thinking of placing the cradle with the battery being charged in a metal bucket with gallons of water nearby.

According to the FAA’s Extinguishing In-Flight Laptop Computer Fires - Lithium Battery Thermal Runaway testing;

Hazards Posed By Laptop Batteries
Laptop computer batteries contain 6-9 lithium-ion cells.
Lithium-ion cells become dangerous when internal temperature reaches 350 F (Thermal Runaway)
A cell in thermal runaway gets extremely hot, then overpressures, releasing flammable liquid electrolyte
Cells may explode
Thermal runaway can be induced by external heating

AS shown by their tests, FAA was more concerned about battery thermal runaway induced by external heating. If a chemical reaction inside the battery might induce thermal runaway, I guess the FAA would totally ban any transport of li-ion batteries on commercial aircrafts.

But still I’m not comfortable with that thought. Can anyone explain how a li-ion battery might have thermal runaway by itself, without exposure to external heating?

[Pulsar]

a short circuit for one. overcharging, over discharge maybe… im no expert on this subject though

[scaru]

It would be very hard. A short circuit would most likely be stopped by the thermistor. However, reverse charging could probably cause a thermal runaway. This is when you have one dead (0 volt) battery in series with a charged one and they are powering something. The 0 volt one goes negative, which can lead to a thermal runaway.

[verge]

What about a unattended/forgotten 18650 battery resting in storage, could it commit seppuku, overheat and explode by itself?

[scaru]

@verge

What about a unattended/forgotten 18650 battery resting in storage, could it commit seppuku, overheat and explode by itself?

No, unless it was stored in a deadshort (I doubt even this would do it) or there was a fire.

[relic38]

@verge

I’m also puzzled by the cardboard box container mentioned in the report as one of the fire control methods in li-ion transport in aircraft.

Have you ever tried to burn a cardboard box from the inside? Chuck in a pack of lit matches and close the cover. The box may catch, but it’ll probably go out before spreading.
Cardboard burns with a lot of smoke and needs a lot of air. a closed cardboard box would not burn freely until a good sized hole formed in it. Most shipping cardboard is treated with fire retardant too. I suspect they consider cardboard less of a catalyst than plastic. Although, smoke on an airplane sounds bad too…

Just a guess… and I’ve lit a few fires before, mostly with desired results

[SashiX]

@verge

From the You Tube video, FAA test showed that spraying the li-ion battery fire with Halon 1211 fire extinguisher and then dousing with water is the best way to put out the fire and prevent the other li-ion batteries from reaching thermal runaway temperature. In another test, it appeared that using water alone extinguished the fire and prevented the other batteries from overheating.

@Rufusbduck

Just speculating but the mist may get the job done with a minimum of water used. Might prevent a crisis like Apollo 13.

- YouTube

OK, that’s for bare lithium. Couldn’t find any vid of undamaged cell/batt thrown in water though

[verge]

@relic38

@verge

I’m also puzzled by the cardboard box container mentioned in the report as one of the fire control methods in li-ion transport in aircraft.

Have you ever tried to burn a cardboard box from the inside? Chuck in a pack of lit matches and close the cover. The box may catch, but it’ll probably go out before spreading.
Cardboard burns with a lot of smoke and needs a lot of air. a closed cardboard box would not burn freely until a good sized hole formed in it. Most shipping cardboard is treated with fire retardant too. I suspect they consider cardboard less of a catalyst than plastic. Although, smoke on an airplane sounds bad too…

Just a guess… and I’ve lit a few fires before, mostly with desired results

Looking back at the video, there was about one to two feet of flames shooting out of the battery. It was like a mini flame thrower. I can only imagine that the cardboard box would be obliterated by the intense heat and flames shooting out of the li-ion battery.

The following quote is on page 6 of the report.

2011 FAA Fire Safety Highlights

Preliminary tests were also conducted to characterize the flammability hazard of lithium polymer batteries of the type used in some laptop computers.

The capability of existing shipping containers to contain a lithium-ion and lithium primary fire was evaluated. A proposed draft specification for a fire-safe shipping container or over pack for lithium-ion cells was also developed

The results from these tests confirmed that Halon 1301 is effective at suppressing open flames from lithium-ion cells in thermal runaway. The Halon, as expected, was totally ineffective at stopping the progression of thermal runaway. Even in the presence of Halon 1301, all cells in the shipment were consumed. Data was collected showing the propagation rate between adjacent cells as well as cell temperature while in thermal runaway.

Currently available robust shipping containers, such as metal pails and drums were not effective in controlling lithium primary fires, but were effective in containing lithium-ion fires. A fiberboard container designed to ship oxygen generator canisters was tested against a 100 cell lithium-ion fire and successfully contained the fire. The proposed draft specification for a fire-safe over pack for lithium-ion cells is based partly on the oxygen generator over pack specification.

1. Metal pail
2. Water

Those might do the job of containing and putting out a Li-Ion fire.

[verge]

Here’s the latest from FAA,

2012Highlights.pdf

2012 FAA Fire Safety Highlights

A third test was conducted to evaluate the effectiveness of water as an extinguishing agent on lithium metal battery fires. The test consisted of a stack of 400 lithium metal SF123A cells, initiated with a cartridge heater. The fire was allowed to progress to a high intensity, at which time water was sprayed from four fifteen gallon per minute nozzles. The water immediately extinguished the open flame and rapidly cooled the battery stack. The water spray continued until all thermocouples indicated the batteries were cooled, about five minutes. The temperature was monitored and showed a gradual increase, water was again applied. After three applications of water, the battery pack remained cool and was considered extinguished.

[verge]

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/safo/all_safos/media/2009/SAFO09013.pdf

FAA, Safety Alert for Operators (SAFO)

Subject: Fighting Fires Caused By Lithium Type Batteries in Portable Electronic Devices

Purpose: To recommend procedures for fighting fires caused by lithium type batteries in portable electronic devices
(PED).

. . . .

(1) Utilize a Halon, Halon replacement or water extinguisher to extinguish the fire and prevent its spread to
additional flammable materials.

(2) After extinguishing the fire, douse the device with water or other non-alcoholic liquids to cool the device and
prevent additional battery cells from reaching thermal runaway.

WARNING: Do not attempt to pick up and move a smoking or burning device! Bodily injury may result.

WARNING: Do not cover the device or use ice to cool the device. Ice or other materials insulate the device,
increasing the likelihood that additional battery cells will reach thermal runaway.

This communication was dated 6/23/09.

Latest FAA testings showed that metal pail or drum for containment and water for putting out fire will do the job.

[verge]

From… 2011 FAA Fire Safety Highlights

A fiberboard container designed to ship oxygen generator canisters was tested against a 100 cell lithium-ion fire and successfully contained the fire.

Anyone have an idea what this could be?

I’m looking at this site, but I do not know what I’m looking for.

http://www.champlincompany.com/Military/Fiberboard_Products/Fiberboard_Mil.htm

I haven’t seen one, I do not know what it looks like.

[Keith_McClary]

Overcharging batteries eyed in Boeing 787 mishaps

This Jan. 17, 2013 photo provided by the Japan Transport Safety Board shows the distorted main lithium-ion battery and its lid, left, of the All Nippon Airways’ Boeing 787 which made an emergency landing on Wednesday, Jan. 16, 2013 at Takamatsu airport in Takamatsu, western Japan. At right are the model in normal condition.

I can’t tell from the pic how big these cells are were.

[Keith_McClary]

” The lithium ion battery that caught fire in a Boeing 787 weighed 63 pounds and was 19 inches long.“:What holds energy tech back? The infernal battery

[hank]

http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm has a graphic illustrating the safe window for lithium cell handling — stay inside the green. They run down the changes that happen when conditions go outside the safe window and why they lead to trouble eventually.

“… many, if not most fires are caused by abuse by the user. This may be ”deliberate or negligent” abuse such as overcharging or operating in a high temperature environment or physical damage due to mishandling, but quite often it is unconscious abuse. Surprisingly many of the most serious fires have been initiated by inadvertent short circuits caused by careless disposal of cells in the rubbish.”