Easy-to-assemble and inexpensive first DIY light?

Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts
1

Is it the holy grail? Hi, I’m new around here and trying to learn all I can. [Un]fortunately, there is a lot of information to soak in and it seems a bit daunting. In my introduction, I got some great responses, and I’m hoping to learn more here. Sometimes, I find, it’s best to just ask the questions for a good start.

When I started this thread, I was just going to ask a simple question: Can you guys recommend some simple builds for my needs? Specifically, I want a single 18650 (and/or 3XAAA) light that’s easy to assemble but a good quality. I want a thrower, but don’t mind a little flood too (can you DIY a zoomie?). I really like bright…but that’s obvious. I’m hoping for links to specific parts, not just a bunch of model #s I don’t understand yet. Also, I’d like to keep it under $20 if possible, but I do have a touch of wiggle room there. Also, to add another hoop, I really think I like fasttech.com as a supplier after reading through a ton of reviews on a lot of suppliers. That’s not a mandate on this, but a request if possible.

However, I would also like to add another request: Can you, whether or not you help with the above task, explain what the parts are and how they interact? I mean, I get body, emitter, driver, and switch, but I don’t really understand what some of that stuff (or other stuff) means really. I understand what they are, but not necessarily how they all interact with one another or why you use one driver with one emitter but not with another, or one host or whatever.

I know you may not agree that building one is the best bet for a beginning enthusiast, but it’s the way I like to learn. And this is my game, dang it, so don’t play if you don’t want to. :wink:

PS: One more question — I’m working on gaining some perspective on this whole lumens (or lux?) thing. Can anyone tell me what the average ratingss are on some common lights? Maglights and Harbor Freight freebies (9 led 3XAAA crap) are easy enough for me to understand.

2

Buying a P60 host and building your own drop-in is a good place to start.

Start with a Solarforce host. You can get a less expensive host if you want - the Ultrafire 501B isn't bad. But cheaper hosts can have issues that might require troubleshooting which can turn into a real headache for a beginner. SF hosts have higher overall quality, are reliable, and are very consistent unit-to-unit. Also, SF ships fast and has good customer service. I recommend buying the L2N 2-pack. That will average out to $15 per host.

Build your own drop-ins with the following parts:

LED: choose an XML from this list that has a 16mm base plate and the tint/output bin of your choice. An XML in a P60 reflector produces a nicely balanced beam, but not a ton of throw. You might want to try an XRE or XPG2 build if you're sure about wanting more throw. XRE or XPG2 builds will require different reflectors, drivers, and centering/isolation disks than the ones listed below, and some of those parts are not available on Fasttech.

Empty drop-in for XML: link

Driver: choose this one if you want higher output and don't mind having less reliability. choose this one if you don't mind less output but want more reliability.

LED centering/isolation device for XML: link

You'll also need some thermal compound and silicone wire. Also, Fujik if you want to pot the driver (optional).

Instructions for building the drop-in are available here.

3

If you want to try building something other than a P60, CNQ has a bunch of acceptable-to-great empty hosts for sale here. Some of them are just as easy to build as a P60; some of them are more complex. I would try building a P60 first before trying one of these.

The thing that makes P60's good hosts for beginners is that spare parts are easy to find and inexpensive. If you mess up and break something during your build, getting a replacement should be pretty easy. For example, replacement lenses, o-rings, switches, switch boots, reflectors, and pills for P60 hosts are easy and inexpensive to replace. That isn't always the case with other hosts. Some other hosts have unique components, and if you break a unique component, you might end up having to buy a complete host just to replace one component.

Another advantage of P60's is the abundance of accessories - holsters, clips, bezels, attachments, you name it. Most of the other DYI hosts don't have any available accessories, not even a holster or a clip.

4

To add, I would consider picking up a c8 as cheap as possible, assembled. Not necessarily as a mod base, but to actually see how a traditional light goes together compared to a p60 host.

Once you understand the assembly, its all actually very simple to assemble.

For hosts ready for assembly I like these guys.

http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/search.php?encode=YTo0OntzOjg6ImNhdGVnb3J5IjtzOjE6IjAiO3M6ODoia2V5d29yZHMiO3M6NDoiaG9zdCI7czoxMDoiaW1hZ2VGaWVsZCI7czoxOiIgIjtzOjE4OiJzZWFyY2hfZW5jb2RlX3RpbWUiO2k6MTM1ODI0MTI2NDt9

As you can see, there are loads of hosts, all with different led/star sizes, driver sizes and cell requirements.

As a simple first build that’s quite throwy, I would suggest a c8 upgrade host.

http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1488

I would then opt for the xp-g mil reflector option (smooth reflector, rather than orange peel, we’ll get to the differences in beam from these later)

I would put an xp-g2 in.

http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1808

And I would run it with a 7*7135 driver.
http://www.intl-outdoor.com/amc71356-5mode-circuit-board-nanjg-105c-p-536.html
This is a 6*7135 driver, I got a few and added chips to get what I want, the chips go up in 350ma steps, here’s the chips
http://www.intl-outdoor.com/amc7135-advanced-current-regulator-350ma-p-221.html

It’s good practice adding the chips to the boards for when you move on to stacking chips for more than 2.8a drive current.

Also its worth used to this family of drivers (there are many variants but all work a similar way).

You want some extra centering gaskets, although the host comes with them.

http://www.intl-outdoor.com/cree-xpgxpexte-led-reflector-positioning-gasket-10-pcs-p-601.html

And thermal grease.
http://www.intl-outdoor.com/thermal-grease-heatsink-compound-st801-15gtube-p-407.html

Tweezers are very handy.
http://www.intl-outdoor.com/stainless-steel-straight-tweezers-p-297.html

And your going to want a 40w iron, a small vise and helping hands are also very handy.

Have fun, I agree, building is far more fun than buying.

5

Just wondering, have you tried using those white centering gaskts in a light? If so, did you get good results? If you did, which reflector did you use?

6

Interesting.

During the wallbuy sales there was a 18650 uf torchlight selling at 6.90. Is it a p60 host? Just realised the whole torchlight can cost the same price as a p60 host

7

I used one in the c8 upgrade I built, seemed to work, but that was an xm-l, in an xm-l op reflector.

I don’t think I used one in the xp-g2 uf-v3 build, that seem fine as is. I also tend to buy 16mm stars, only time I’ve not coped is a c8 build, that had to have a 20mm star, the c8 upgrade was fine with a 16mm star and the centering pad. (just been and had a look to be sure) :slight_smile:

8

So you've never used the ones that were in your link?

I used them for a XPG P60 build and they were too thick. They were also too thick for some 20mm XPG reflectors that I tried. I had to use the thinner gaskets that CNQ has. The white ones in your link have been useless so far.

Since you recommended them to the OP, I was hoping that you had found a reflector that worked with them.

9

Not as such, I mainly suggested having spares available because when the modding bug bites, its good to have a stock of components such as these, and they caught my eye whilst passing through intloutdoor.

10

I've had trouble finding empty P60 hosts from FastTech. I've generally had good luck with the 501b/504b hosts from Manafont, with the exception of some flicker when used with high power hosts, due to a weak tailcap switch.

I've just ordered this DIY kit from Fasttech but haven't received it yet; note that the small reflector means that this won't be a thrower, it will be more floody:

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10002463/1181700-c20-diy-edc-led-flashlight-host-for-cree-xm-l

Order this and a decent XM-L emitter:

http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001903/1137102-cree-xm-l-white-led-emitter-with-16mm-base

...and a driver:

2800mA, user-selectable mode groups to eliminate the annoying blinky modes...

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10001683/1122302-8-amc7135-4-group-25-modes-led-flashlight-driver-c

...also available in 2100mA and 1750mA for less heat/longer battery life but at reduced brightness.

Combine parts to make a flashlight.

If you can locate a P60 host (Like the SolarForce hosts recommended above), then you could use the emitter and driver I listed with an empty pill like this one...

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10002800/1208507-empty-aluminum-smooth-drop-in-module-for-cree-xm-l

...to make a very nice P60-sized flashlight. The smooth and larger diameter reflector will make this a bit throwier, but keep in mind that the XM-L in a P60 makes a light that is generally floody. The P60 pill doesn't include the insulation gasket, so you may wish to order some for your toolkit:

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10001923/1138102-paper-insulation-gaskets-for-cree-xm-l-t6-led-emit

These will insulate the points where the wires connect to the LED base and prevent the reflector from shorting the leads and frying the driver.

Tools needed:

11

well, its not new or in perfect condition… but i have a bare 502b host ill mail you for cost of shipping.

edit: i dont have a pill for it, but ill also include a smooth reflector, that way you can buy an empty drop in with an OP reflector and you can try out both.
PS: id like to say that this deal is for the OP to help him get started out

12

To answer a few questions rather than recommend parts: each emitter has a maximum drive current. Modders are always pushing these limits are over-driving the emitters. You have to look at the thermal path from the emitter to the flashlight body and get a feel for how much heat your light can handle (i.e. can the pill & body handle an LED being driven hard and putting out a lot of heat?). The P60 is a great place to start (sorry gords!), but if you drive an XM-L hard in a P60 light you risk burning up the LED and/or driver. You can drive them hard, just don't leave it on high tail-standing on a table for a long time! Drivers also have different voltage requirements and you need different drivers for different purposes (i.e. a boost driver when using 1 or 2 AA, buck driver when using 2 or more Li-Ions, etc. . .). Drivers also have different modes with different levels of output. The Nanjg drivers are widely loved for their 5%-30%-100% output levels and the ability to not have blinkies.

Get familiar with the flashlight Wiki, especially emitter bins, and the tint chart references (thanks to user brted). Many users prefer neutral white tints, while cool whites are more commonly found in ready-to-use lights.

Understand the difference between thermal compound (grease) and thermal glue and don't mix them up. Thermal glue is a more permanent attachment method. Fujik makes both (see on FastTech). Fujik brand is ok, Arctic Silver and other brands are better, but not necessary for basic builds.

My suggestion? Build a P60 with a Solarforce host (watch out - most are forward clickies on the Solarforces!) or Ultrafire 504b or this one, use an XP-G2 neutral white (if you can find one), and drive it around 2.1A to 2.4A using one of the Nanjg 105c drivers set to 3 mode (Hi-Med-Lo). Oh, and don't forget to get some copper foil to wrap that P60 module in to fit it into the host tighter for better heat transfer (I've bought from this seller).

Good luck and happy modding!
-Garry

13

Awesome guys, thanks a ton! Just what I was hoping for. I do have a couple questions. First off, what defines a P60 or C8? Is it the size, threading, or what? What are some of the other types of hosts?

What is the difference between a smooth and an orange peel reflector? I would guess an OP has fewer artifacts and is more floody, is that about right? Answered while I wasn’t paying attention

What about these starter emitters? What’s the difference between an XM-L U2 and a T6, or some other ones? Is it the requirements from the driver and battery? What about practical differences in the light they emit?

Oh, and speaking of light, Is there a place I can go to see the differences in color between the frequencies? I am colorblind, so maybe it won’t help that much. Then again, being colorblind, I am a much better judge of light and dark, so maybe certain colors are better about that. And what does “tint/output bin” mean? Thanks Garry

Just from what I’ve read so far, it seems logical to start with a P60 (maybe even a C8?). Also, my hope to stick to one specific vendor was probably silly. However, it would be ideal to buy everything from one vendor, or maybe two. That way, I wouldn’t get 13 packages over the next 27 weeks from 5 vendors while I try to remember what the crap I was doing with all that stuff.

Thanks again guys. Keep the thoughts coming.

ETA: Pulsar, I may take you up on that offer in a couple days. I just had a wee bit of surgery so I’m going to keep my hands out of my wallet until my head levels out from these pain meds.

14

if youd like it more throw than flood, i would go with c8
with p60 the reflector screws on the pill, and then the drop in (pill, reflector, springs) goes in the the head and makes the electrical contact through the springs. with a c8 the pill screws in to the body of the host.

i think that p60 is more standardized than c8, but i may be wrong on that. i vaguely remember reading about some c8 pills wont work with others

a smooth reflector will throw better, but the beam wont be as uniform as with an orange peel reflector. an orange peel reflector will be a more uniform smooth beam

edit: to me, i would start with a c8. its just more practical in my eyes.

15

I would also suggest a c8 if you want throw…oh yeah I did :bigsmile:

The upgrade host I linked uses c8 reflectors, but has a deeper pill compared to a c8 pill. You can put one together with a nanjg driver and 16/20mm star in less than an hour. All the o-rings are standard c8 and the size is within c8 dimensions. It will out throw a p60 and over heating is much much less of a problem, intact, I think you’d burn the emitter up due to over current before you baked it due to heat.

There are other good hosts, but the c8 upgrade works well, practically puts itself together with the recommended parts and will give you pretty good throw. I do have my eye on some other thrower type set ups, but don’t want to recommend something I’ve not built myself as a first build.

The difference between a c8 and a p60 are a c8 has a 40mm reflector, 42mm lense. The p60 is, I think, 26mm reflector (lense size I don’t know). The p60 is easily edc-able the c8, more jacket sized. The p60 is a “drop in” format developed by surefire, we are now pushing them well beyond the design limits hence the overheating issue. The c8 was designed to take an led from the start. As said, there are many “interpretations” of the c8, I got lucky with mine, but can’t say who definitely carries a c8 that will take the available parts (pill mainly).

There are edc hosts available, but soldering into that little pill is tricky, I know as one was my first build :wink: and it won’t give you the throw you want.

If you do want a pocket thrower though, get a uf-v3 from t-mart and fit an xp-g2 in place of the xm-l. That is a real pocket thrower. :slight_smile:

16

Here's an example beamshot of a C8 vs. a P60 both driven at +/- 3.0A:

KD C8 (mouse out) and Fake L2 (Mouse over):

NOTE - This C8 has an light O.P. reflector and the P60 has a SMO reflector (SMO = better throw, more rings, O.P. = less rings, less throw more flood).

-Garry

17

gords, the only fear I have with your list of supplies is the driver. How does adding chips to a driver work? Is it hard to do? For that matter, what do the chips I’m adding do? I think the driver is probably the biggest mystery to me. Again, I get that “it drives the light,” but I don’t fully understand how.

So, if I were to take Pulsar up on his host, I’d only be spending like $11 on an empty drop-in, driver and emitter? Is there something else I’d need for that? That seems too good to pass up. I could even add a fresh battery/charger to the list because…you know…you can’t have too many.

Alternatively, it sounds like a C8 really is more up my alley. And it doesn’t look like the price would be too much worse. I do plan to use it as an EDC, but I’m sure I can find a host that’s suitable for that (any suggestions?) — or make it work anyhow. I made the CZ-82 fit on my belt, so I’m sure I can do the same for a light if need be.

ETA: Garry, that’s awesome. Thanks so much for that comparison. I was wondering how much difference the OP made vs. smooth because I was thinking of that exact configuration for a smooth, throwy beam.

18

Forget adding chips for now! That's an "advanced" mod better saved for a later mod. They are difficult to do and I hear very easy to burn up the chips attempting to do it (unless you are familiar with advanced electronic work and soldering). I've yet to stack my own chips.

The AMC 7135 chips are current regulators. They come in two levels (at least for us flashlight guys) 350mA and 380mA. Take the number of AMC chips x their current rating and you get the high level of output (i.e. 7 x 350mA AMC 7135's = 7 x 350 = 2450mA (2.45A)). Drivers generally regulate current (current level through an LED is what determines it's output) and not voltage. The LED will pull the voltage it needs so long as the driver is matched up to the battery voltage supply (i.e. two 18650's = 8.4v, so you'd need an 8.4v compatible driver). Current regulated drivers (i.e. constant current) tend to be best as a general rule of thumb. Direct-drive drivers can be problems and even kill an LED. Many drivers are PWM controlled (any mode level below High as far as I understand). Basically the light is pulsed at a very high rate (some higher than others) in order to produce lower output. When you hear people say a light/driver has bad PWM it means one of two things or both, 1) they are more susceptible to noticing PWM, and/or 2) the PWM frequency of the driver is set very low. You can detect PWM many ways; my favorite is to shine the light into fan blades (i.e. a PC cooling fan works). Some guys even detect it by shining the light on their "stream" while doing #1. :) The common AMC based Nanjg drivers are current regulated on high with a very high PWM frequency for medium and low. To increase the current on an AMC based driver you can "stack chips". See this thread titled "Anatomy of a 7135 board".

Be sure to also review and bookmark Match's emitter tests which show lumens output at various current levels on different LED's. XM-L, XP-G & others here, XP-G2, XP-E2, & MT-G2 here.

-Garry

EDIT - I'm not a pro, but the above information is to the best of my knowledge & understanding. Pro's can correct my information if they see I am wrong on something.

19

Hey Boris, I really worried about adding chips, till I tried it. Each chip adds 350 mA (milliamps) to the current permitted to the led. On a 6*7135 driver, there are two empty pre tinned pads. I tin the two outer bottom legs, the centre leg is the same as the tab on top, ground/heatsink, so I tin the top tab and leave the centre leg alone. Hold the chip in place with the tweezers, touch the iron to each point till the solder flows and your done. Try to be as quick as possible, with a clean solder tip. You’d probably be fine at 6*7135 to be honest, but its a nice opportunity to try it out. I found I was worried about nothing and now don’t worry about stacking additional chips.

Now. Think of the driver as a rev limiter. Different led’s have different accepted levels of current (revs) if you wire the led direct drive (no driver) the led will pull all it can from the battery (throttle jammed open) the driver, if you pick a current suitable to your selected led, acts to stop “over revving” as it will only allow what you have decided to let the led have as a maximum. This is current control. At this point there’s much more, but its better to pick that up as you go along.

As a rough guide :-

Xm-l - 3a
Xp-g/g2 - 2/2.5a
Xpe/xre 1.4a

These are the generally accepted levels for max current, there are many, me included who push these limits, because your talking an led lifetime of 100000 hours at the manufacturer rated current, even if you half it, a torch will still do years of service. There is a point where the led gives no more, in fact gives less light, but these levels are generally accepted as ok.

Have a read of some build/mod threads, you’ll soon get a feel for it, and pick up the terms, and don’t be affraid to start specific threads for specific questions, you’ll always get help.

Here’s a glut of links to have a go at.

20

That flashlight wiki is crazy helpful. I have a much better understanding of the emitters at least now. And I believe I get the driver thang too. That wasn’t so hard to figure out after all. You guys are making it really easy. And yes, I think I’ll save stacking chips for another day.

So, I’ve looked at the dimensions* of the C8 and it doesn’t seem too awful for EDC. I was looking for a host (and failing) and I came across this ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tactical-300LM-CREE-Q5-LED-C8-Portable-Flashlight-18650-Torch-Lamp-5-Mode-/370690586147?pt=US_Flashlights&hash=item564ee17623

I don’t know a darn thing about its internals (except that it says Cree Q5), but is there any reason to suspect that, gutted, it wouldn’t at least work as a decent enough host for a first-timer? The whole thing is less expensive than any host I’ve found.

*Anybody else use iruler.net for a quick estimate on sizes? Very handy.