Test / Review: Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh (Green)

80 posts / 0 new
Last post
Anzycpethian
Anzycpethian's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 3 months ago
Joined: 02/18/2012 - 17:05
Posts: 408
Location: LA

Oh…. any similar deals for these?

"Do not Weep. I shall draw all Things which perish into myself When I am lifted from the Earth." ~ Begotten (1991)

Sirius9
Sirius9's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 28 min ago
Joined: 03/04/2012 - 19:23
Posts: 4651
Location: South Europe

NCR18650A over at DX, for $12.50/pair, not a bad deal imo…

 

Anzycpethian
Anzycpethian's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 3 months ago
Joined: 02/18/2012 - 17:05
Posts: 408
Location: LA

These look like the same

http://dx.com/p/panasonic-rechargeable-18650-3400mah-li-ion-batteries-ye...

Can anybody confirm if they are protected?

"Do not Weep. I shall draw all Things which perish into myself When I am lifted from the Earth." ~ Begotten (1991)

Sirius9
Sirius9's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 28 min ago
Joined: 03/04/2012 - 19:23
Posts: 4651
Location: South Europe

Anzycpethian wrote:
Can anybody confirm if they are protected?

They are protected.

 

Anzycpethian
Anzycpethian's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 3 months ago
Joined: 02/18/2012 - 17:05
Posts: 408
Location: LA

Thank you, Sirius9!!! I’m ordering them!

"Do not Weep. I shall draw all Things which perish into myself When I am lifted from the Earth." ~ Begotten (1991)

dangerous
dangerous's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 9 months ago
Joined: 06/17/2014 - 04:54
Posts: 962
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL

Will the specific PCB that is used have a dramatic affect on the performance at higher current draw?

I notice that this particular battery that HKJ tested performs significantly worse than the stock NCR18650B. I have NCR18650Bs that use Seiki PCBs and they look different from the ones HKJ tested here. I wonder if my NCR18650B would perform closer to the stock NCR18650B at 5A.

BLF

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7447
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

dangerous wrote:
Will the specific PCB that is used have a dramatic affect on the performance at higher current draw? I notice that this particular battery that HKJ tested performs significantly worse than the stock NCR18650B. I have NCR18650Bs that use Seiki PCBs and they look different from the ones HKJ tested here. I wonder if my NCR18650B would perform closer to the stock NCR18650B at 5A.

The PCB controls two parts:

1) The control IC

2) The switch transistors.

 

The control IC has a threshold for maximum current, this depends on the actual IC model, but can be 0.1 volt (It has nothing to do with Japanese/Chinese IC). This threshold defines the maximum voltage drop, just before the over current protection trips. I.e. with a 0.1 volt IC, the output voltage will be 0.1 volt lower than a unprotected battery, just before over current trips.

 

The switch transistors is used to disconnect the cell, but does also define the over current limit, i.e. when there is "threshold" voltage across the transistors, the over current will trip. A high current transistor or many transistors in parallel will give a higher current before the over current trips. This will also mean a lower voltage drop at lower currents. This means that a battery with higher over current value will have better performance, than one with lower over current protection, if the same IC is used.

 

 

 

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

CheapThrills
CheapThrills's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 07/02/2011 - 10:45
Posts: 3651
Location: Suomi

What is the current preferred vendor in getting these and shipped internationally? Smile

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7447
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

CheapThrills wrote:
What is the current preferred vendor in getting these and shipped internationally? :)

When you are inside EU I would check these:

http://eu.nkon.nl/

https://www.akkuteile.de/

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

CheapThrills
CheapThrills's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 07/02/2011 - 10:45
Posts: 3651
Location: Suomi

Thanks! Smile

d_t_a
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 31 sec ago
Joined: 08/04/2017 - 23:58
Posts: 2623
Location: Manila, Philippines

I got my order of LiitoKala protected NCR18650B from this seller:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/5PCS-2015-New-Original-18650-34...PCB-Protected-For/217753_32585730747.html

Since these are my first and only protected 18650s, how do I know that they are indeed protected — they look like protected batteries, as per the description from this thread by HKJ: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/33995?page=1 – they are much longer than ordinary 18650s.

How do I check that the protection will work (aside from shorting them, which I don’t want to try doing at the moment)?

I’d like to ask also what does “protection” really do? — does it protect from draining to too low voltage? from overcharging to too high voltage? from drawing too much current?

If draining to too low voltage, what might the the low voltage threshold — is it 2.50v? How about high voltage threshold — is it over 4.20v — will charging to 4.21v trigger the ‘protection’ or maybe over 4.25v?

I’ve tried draining the battery down to 2.50v momentarily (@ 1A drain rate), but I didn’t notice anything happen (no shutdown, after the load was removed, voltage recovered quickly).

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7447
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Protection chips check for over charger, over discharge and over current.
In many of my battery test I trip the over current protection.
I did run some test on the over discharge protection here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/DischargeProtectionTest%20UK.html

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

hIKARInoob
hIKARInoob's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 12 hours ago
Joined: 08/28/2016 - 08:15
Posts: 4191
HKJ wrote:
Protection chips check for over charger, over discharge and over current. In many of my battery test I trip the over current protection. I did run some test on the over discharge protection here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/DischargeProtectionTest%20UK.html

Do you know if the over current protection also works for charging, or is it discharge only?

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7447
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
hIKARInoob wrote:
Do you know if the over current protection also works for charging, or is it discharge only?

It also work for over charging, you can see it on some 4.35V protected batteries I have tested, they usual use 4.2V protection chips and cannot be charger to 4.35V due to that.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

FreeMagenta
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/12/2014 - 12:50
Posts: 175
Location: Poland

A small piece of information:
Four of those batteries, fully charged to 4,2V and stored for ~28 months in 20-27 (mostly 22-23), sometimes shortly ~30 Celsius (68-80, mostly 72-74 sometimes ~86F) had IR increased by ~30 mOhms (one 50) .
Discharge test of those batteries to 2,8V:
Shortly after purchase: ~3100-3200@3A + 60-100@1A
Now: 2750-3000@3A + 150-300@1A; 50 mOhms one had 2550 + 400

IR: charger measured ~90-100 on purchase, 120-130 (one cell 150), ten measurements, average of 3 lowest.What is the real IR-cant say exactly, due to my limited hardware

Barkuti
Barkuti's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 02/19/2014 - 14:46
Posts: 5580
Location: Alhama de Murcia, Spain

FreeMagenta, that is likely consecuence of storing the batteries at maximum voltage. See BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries.

I take that information very seriously, even to the point of avoiding using my cells above 14/15th of their maximum voltage. Pays off (in a device like a smartphone, a lot).

 

Cheers Smile

The human mind, and its programming, is at the forefront of a particular battle of The Light vs evil dark forces. Nearly every human being on this beautiful planet “Earth” has some sort of negative mind programming in its mind. And you better take care of your mind programming, or someone else will in this wicked world.

Please avoid fully quoting lenghty posts, namely with nested quotes. Trim quotes down to the essential. Helps with neatness and legibility. Thanks.

I recommend saying no to Covid vaccine. Listen to your spirit or soul. Innocent 

Keanu Reeves may need your help. Join his Telegram channel here.

d_t_a
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 31 sec ago
Joined: 08/04/2017 - 23:58
Posts: 2623
Location: Manila, Philippines
HKJ wrote:
Protection chips check for over charger, over discharge and over current. In many of my battery test I trip the over current protection. I did run some test on the over discharge protection here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/DischargeProtectionTest%20UK.html

Thanks for the link to that experiment. So it seems, common undervoltage protection are set to 2.50v, 2.40v, and 2.30v.

I hadn’t dare drain the protected NCR18650B I got below 2.50v yet; I think it doesn’t trip at 2.50v, but possibly lower.

Will I permanently damage the protected NCR18650B if I attempt to drain it to 2.00v? (I’ll use EBD-USB+ and 18650 battery holder and try to drain at 1A, or should I drain at a lower current for testing at which voltage the protection kicks in?)

Barkuti
Barkuti's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 02/19/2014 - 14:46
Posts: 5580
Location: Alhama de Murcia, Spain

d_t_a, if your cell is protected I really doubt the protection circuit will let you go down just a bit below 2.5V, if at all. Related: How far can LiIon be discharged?

Despite whatever is said by HKJ there, a cell's chemistry doesn't immediately changes upon deep discharge. I've had a couple of deep discharges at 2V or less without apparent damage, but of course I don't leave cells to sleep in such state, they are recharged without delay.

 

Cheers 

The human mind, and its programming, is at the forefront of a particular battle of The Light vs evil dark forces. Nearly every human being on this beautiful planet “Earth” has some sort of negative mind programming in its mind. And you better take care of your mind programming, or someone else will in this wicked world.

Please avoid fully quoting lenghty posts, namely with nested quotes. Trim quotes down to the essential. Helps with neatness and legibility. Thanks.

I recommend saying no to Covid vaccine. Listen to your spirit or soul. Innocent 

Keanu Reeves may need your help. Join his Telegram channel here.

FreeMagenta
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/12/2014 - 12:50
Posts: 175
Location: Poland
Barkuti wrote:

FreeMagenta, that is likely consecuence of storing the batteries at maximum voltage. See BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries.


I take that information very seriously, even to the point of avoiding using my cells above 14/15th of their maximum voltage. Pays off (in a device like a smartphone, a lot).


 


Cheers Smile

I knew. Smile However, I did it for the test (how much will the batteries degrade if stored on max voltage?…) . Also, for having fully charged batteries in case of emergency. Since I am using mostly 1S lights, the potential differences in degradation won’t matter much.

Pages