Review: 10W Cool White LED Floodlight from Wallbuys

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relic38
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DimBulb wrote:
relic38 wrote:
I doubt this light ‘design’ has seen the inside of an approvals lab.

Even it has, there is always


Regulatory capture occurs when a regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or special concerns of interest groups that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. Regulatory capture is a form of government failure, as it can act as an encouragement for firms to produce negative externalities. The agencies are called “captured agencies”.


I have talked to companies that have experienced this directly. It practically destroys many startups with otherwise amazing ground-breaking products. Many of the largest approval and safety governing bodies have executives from the largest corporations sitting in their board meetings. If any hint of a threat to their bottom line happens to come along, they have a lot of sway when it comes to making it difficult for said new technology to eat into their profits. It’s a conflict conflict of interest.
Even with that, there is still a value to safety ratings.
As a general safety caution, any line-powered device purchased overseas should be checked for safety issues before put into use.

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DimBulb
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relic38 wrote:
DimBulb wrote:
relic38 wrote:
I doubt this light ‘design’ has seen the inside of an approvals lab.

Even it has, there is always


Regulatory capture occurs when a regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or special concerns of interest groups that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. Regulatory capture is a form of government failure, as it can act as an encouragement for firms to produce negative externalities. The agencies are called “captured agencies”.


I have talked to companies that have experienced this directly. It practically destroys many startups with otherwise amazing ground-breaking products. Many of the largest approval and safety governing bodies have executives from the largest corporations sitting in their board meetings. If any hint of a threat to their bottom line happens to come along, they have a lot of sway when it comes to making it difficult for said new technology to eat into their profits. It’s a conflict conflict of interest.
Even with that, there is still a value to safety ratings.
As a general safety caution, any line-powered device purchased overseas should be checked for safety issues before put into use.

I don’t see any knowledgeable consumer advocates on the Code Panels that make the NEC, either. Where are the incentives to balance the cost to the consumer with the safety the consumer is supposed to gain?

This is
“a situation in which a group of people act to obtain short-term individual gains, which in the long run leads to a loss for the group as a whole.”

The Game Theory people don’t believe there is a solution to this until we evolve into better people. If ‘Eve’ lived 500K years ago, I wouldn’t be holding my breath. . .:)

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I finally got around to modding 3 of my wallbuys 10W floodlights. Since fasttech forgot to include 1.2 ohm resistors in their resistor multipack, I made due with 1.0 ohm resistors instead. After the mod (measured on the AC side) the lights start out at 13.5 watts and settle down to 12.5 watts after about 1 minute. The diode (that relic pointed out) gets very hot in a hurry, so I double wrapped it with a 4” long piece of 14 gauge solid pure copper wire and soldered it to the diode leg. Each end of the protruding wire is then bent so 1 inch makes contact with the aluminum driver housing. A bit of sanding and AA helps facilitate heat transfer. I disposed of the plastic driver housings that acted as a thermal blanket and applied fijic to the transformer to stick it to the back of the housing. The AL driver housing gets warm after about an hour but maintains the same heat level… nice!

NOTE: none of these mods are deemed safe and could cause electrocution during a failure. But then, the lights as they came stock are an electrical hazard to begin with. Tonight, they get a long burn-in to see of they fail. If not, I’ll mod the remaining 4 floodlights.

Thanks again for leading the way Relic! To the eye, they look a good 75% brighter. Probably because the cool white provides a nicer tint when its well driven.

relic38
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Nice work FlashPilot! You went a step or two beyond what I did. I eventually switched all of mine to Warm White emitter modules. I prefer the warm tint.

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Thanks again goes to you relic. The lights have been on for a couple of hours and dont overheat. Just 3 floodlights light up my entire backyard in an even blanket of light. Im not sure what to do with the other 4 lights once they’re modded. Are yours mounted and in service around your house?

I bought 14 XML 3C emitters at a great closeout price and a pair of 24-27V 3A DC transformers. The idea was to mount 2 x XML’s in each housing and power each of the two with a separate transformer (2 banks of 7 x XML in series). That way I could use just one or both XML’s per housing… kind of a high/low arrangement. But now I realize that will be far overkill… even for the most brutal of lumen-junkies. Hmm… Ive got a bunch of 1/2” aluminum plate I could mount them to and hang it from the ceiling in the garage.

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I have thought of two or 4 XMLs which I would power with a separate acdc wall wart transformator another driver inside the light…that would make it absolute safe and bright worklight, perhaps on a tripod…
But I have lost my spare XMLs I have collected through the time, so Have to order some….

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I use one at my solder workstation, and two for lighting my light box for studio shots. The Warm White emitters (once white balanced) seem to have great CRI. Once they warm up they produce a nice consistent light output.

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I finished my 7th floodlight “relic-resistor” mod today, and they will all get a good long burn-in tonight. After some testing, 2 x XML’s @ 3A each (24 watts) would definitely be too much for these housings to effectively dissipate heat if left on for more than 10 minutes. Im still very pleased and impressed with the mod results. I think I paid about $7 for each of these. :bigsmile:

Relic, its interesting that these LED’s still deliver fairly good performance, especially considering their vintage. Do you have a link for the warm-white emitters? I may have to give those a try.

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I got them off eBay for about $3 each. I’ll dig up the link. They are the 10W square emitters that the housing was designed for.

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Thats a great price @$3 each. I have a dilemma: whether to wire for AC and spread the lights around my yard, or to convert to DC serial for XML (powered by 24-27V DC transformer) and keep the housings all fairly close together (within 40 feet of each other). If I could get the warm white emitters, Id probably go that route. Thanks! It looks like ebay has loads of them listed.

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Good news! They are even cheaper than I paid. They were five for $11 way back when I bought. Now they are under $2 for one. Nice!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1×-10Watt-10W-High-Power-Bright-LED-Bulb-beads-10W-Warm-White-Lamp-Light-3000K-/130900864879
Good seller. Hopefully they have not changed for the worse. Good luck with them. Beer

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I have one warm white emmitter bought from fasttech, was fairly cheap too.
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1103511. 3.54$

Could you please explain why two XMLs are to much?
Just because it gets hot? A halogen bulb will get really hot an d that was standard for decades n such housings…

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All 7 floodlights survived the night, but they do get quite toasty after an hour of continuous use (even while out in the cool night air). I actually like the effect of the cool white tint when my back yard is well illuminated. If they start burning out, I’ll consider a change but will keep what I have for now.

@Werner – The housing already gets very warm when the LED is continuously driven at 10 watts. Heat is an emitters worst enemy, especially when kept on for sustained periods of time. I have less than 20 hours of use on a brand new XML that has dimmed by at least 2/3rds because my lamp conversion needs additional heat sinking to properly cool the emitter.

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What do you guys think of the 20w or even 30w versions of these found on Amazon and Ebay?  Do you think those can handle the heat?  Or is 10w a max for these types of enclosures?  (Of course there are also 50w and 100w versions too.)  I was thinking of replacing one of those typical high pressure sodium HID lights (at least I think that's what it is) with two 20w (or even 30w if I found a good price) LED floodlights.  Thoughts?

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I think the larger ones can handle the heat, if they have good thermal connection to the emitter. The housings are quite a bit larger and provide enough surface area to dissipate the heat. They are quite a bit larger than this one. I built a 60W one using a halogen housing, but ended up using a fan to keep it cool. No longer weather sealed. I also built two other 10W ones in a similar way and they handle the heat just fine.
I find the larger ones to be a little pricey, so I’ve stayed away from them. I have seen a few models in Home Depot, and they are even more expensive, so i guess maybe the one online aren’t relatively that expensive.

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Thanks for the feedback relic!  Hard to tell from the photos that they are much larger.  Here is an example 20w one I was looking at (US seller) - $27.49ea. $34.90 for a 30w "day light" one. Be nice if they already have attached ground wires and good quality control on them.

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Big Smile
Anyway, That 20W is quite a bit larger at 7“W x 5.5“H x 4.3“D
The 10W one I have is 4.5“W x 3.5“H x 3“D
Edit: Depending on shipping, that’s not a bad price either ($27, doesn’t ship to Canada)

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I have the fasttech 10W 12V led driven with 700mA on a finger heatsink like this

As a desk lamp and it gets hot maybe 60°C but that’s nothing bad it works and makes nice floodie light….
.
.
.
And if I consider that I have really small Tubular flashlight with 8W LEDs… I think that it should work with such big housings…

But I think you are right that heat isn’t good especially if you use this light continuously for lightning. I would use this as a working light and for playing around or so and the huge 12V emitters aren’t really efficient…

Maybe I will check the light out later, haven’t put my hands on it for about half a year.
How is your mounting piece on your lights, mine wasn’t really build up well if I remember correctly…

Edit: I have just searched my light and I think the 3T6 driver should fit in the driver compartment, that would give me a nice voltage range and even modes. And nice regulated current. Maybe I use two XMLs parallel driven with 4.5A…

So I just ordered a pair xml2 T5 3C.

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If you are referring to the 10W worklights, the emitter is directly mounted on the main light housing. It could not be better. One improvement would have been anodizing the housing instead of paint. Still, at 10W, it is fine. I think it could be pushed to 15W with a bit better driver.

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Yep, I guess 15W should be OK and that’s what the stock 3T6 driver does from 4-13V…I have just looked up and xml2T5 does 630 lumen @2A so I guess at4.5A it should be a nice floodlight with 1200lm or so.

Nice hint with the paint, I am going to grind it away…
I will try to solder 2 XMLs on one star like I have seen it here somewhere, maybe I can grind some of the protective layer away…not sure but I will try.
I have some noctigons/sinkpads lying around anyway.

The screws for the mounting piece(not sure how this is named) doesn’t fit the threads or maybe the threads are painted…anyone else had this?

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You can mount two XM-Ls on one star, but grinding away the space around it will do no good. There is just aluminum under the dielectric layer.
Two XM-Ls at 4.5A will give more output than one, for sure. At 4.5A into one XM-L, you’d be better off with a direct bonded copper star.

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I wonder if there would be any differences in heat output:

  • 1 x XML driven at 3A

or

  • 2 x XML sharing the same star, driven at 3A… so 1.5A each emitter.

Ive noticed that most LED’s seem to run fairly cool until you drive them slightly harder.

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There's no aluminum underneath to worry about with a sinkpad/noctigon

That ^^ worked fine, direct drive I think it was around 5.8 amps and made plenty of heat (and a LOT of light). Getting a usable beam pattern with a round flashlight reflector is near impossible but would work great in a floodlight.

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What Comfy did should work fine. Now that I think about it, on a regular star it would have heat issues.

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Thanks but I probably didnt explain that correctly. Silly

Which would give off more BTU’s? One XML driven at 3A or two XML at 1.5A each. Im guessing the first option, but I havent been able to confirm this.

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I would confirm your hypothesis, because actually all power which goes in comes out and we all know that higher driven XMLs loose efficiency(if you imagine the current/lumen diagrams you see that it is not linear, incline decreases)
And so if less light comes out there is more heat but I would not overrate this so much, maybe a few degrees less??

Comfy have you ripped the middle layer a bit away?

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Actual heat generated by the emitters would be dependent on the Vf. I’m assuming if current is the same, the pair of emitters would have a lower Vf. Therefore, the pair driven at 1.5A each would generate less heat (and more lumens) than the single emitter at 3A. The difference is relatively minor, but probably measurable.

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I cut away the top dielectric layer under the outer halves of the LEDs. So there's a thicker than optimal layer of solder under the outer half that connects direct to the base, still better than nothing. The inner halves are sitting on the normal raised pad.

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Thanks for confirming, what I had in mind.

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relic38 wrote:
Actual heat generated by the emitters would be dependent on the Vf. I’m assuming if current is the same, the pair of emitters would have a lower Vf. Therefore, the pair driven at 1.5A each would generate less heat (and more lumens) than the single emitter at 3A. The difference is relatively minor, but probably measurable.

No, the power in and dissipated as heat would be the same (assuming the driver power loss is also included). Say the batteries were at 4.0V: 4V * 3A is the same as 4v * (1.5A + 1.5A).

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