Test / Review: Samsung INR18650-20R (also AW dethroned)

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NightCrawl
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Test / Review: Samsung INR18650-20R (also AW dethroned)

I wondered if the AW IMR 18650 still was the best.. as it turns out, it isnt. Samsung has released a huge surprise and I have to say, the cell is purely awesome, we didnt expect that. Namely its the Samsung INR18650-20R.

I had some IMR cells tested by a German member who will release a comparison of several IMR cells somewhere in the future, but from all the cells currently available, these two are the best.

Here is the 20A discharge curve in comparison to AW IMR 18650:

At first the AW is superior, so here is that part zoomed in:

The AW holds the voltage a little bit better in the beginning, but for less than 0.1Ah or in other words: about 15 seconds. The Samsung cell has a buttload more capacity and also a higher voltage.

Worth noting: there is some resistance involved, so the voltage in the graphs is about 0.2V lower than it was in reality. If I move up the AW curve by 0.2V it pretty much matches the one from HKJ.

 

Here are the curves for 15A:

and 10A:

and from 1A to 20A:

Great cell for applications which require 10A or more.

Edited by: sb56637 on 08/26/2014 - 17:45
jmpaul320
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very interesting… i wonder how that same samsung compares to aw imr 2000mah

Would you mind keeping the wrong flashlight?
Best wish, May
Tmart service team

 

Soumil wrote:

PLEASE HELP ME GEARBEsT! IM LITERALLY CRYING!

 

dthrckt
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awesome!

so the question on my mind is, where are they sold the cheapest Smile

Shadowww
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jmpaul320 wrote:
very interesting… i wonder how that same samsung compares to aw imr 2000mah

The 2000mAh one doesn’t holds against 1600mAh even at “just” 10A:

I guess it doesn’t stands a chance at 20A. Silly
Chicken Drumstick
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dthrckt wrote:
awesome!

so the question on my mind is, where are they sold the cheapest Smile


+1
NightCrawl
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@jmpaul: HKJ tested it up to 10A. Rather disappointing, worse than CGR18650CH.

@dthrckt: Thats where I got mine: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261134798326

Or if you want them faster: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261144488982

 

@Shadowww: Pictures with size 100% please. Wink

Shadowww
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NightCrawl wrote:

@Shadowww: Pictures with size 100% please. Wink


I don’t think that’s a particularly good idea.
http://qs.lc/p/fg go here to see why. Silly
Would be cool if there’d be “automatic width” option which’d downscale pictures if they don’t fit, but keep them intact if there’s enough space.
leaftye wrote:

Any there any multi-LED direct drive flashlights that can take advantage of all that current capacity?


Why direct drive? :/
Properly designed boost driver with LED’s driven in series would be much better idea. Hard to implement, yes, but that’s what engineers are employed for at Fenix, Nitecore, etc.
NightCrawl
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Well, but its out of scale for people with a lower res. Just like your signature.

The needs of the many are more important than the needs of the few..

Shadowww
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I doubt ones who can’t fit 781 px image (of HKJ’s comparator) are “many”, according to latest hardware surveys, most popular resolutions are 1. 1366×768 and 2. 1920×1080 Wink

Removed that signature, though – it was outdated for a few months.

NightCrawl
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I have 1280*800 and its too big. Same for most smartphones and overall most laptops. Its not that bad with this particular image, but its a bad habit in general.

I didnt want this to be a thread to discuss picture sizes, its about IMR cells. Particularly the old king being dethroned by Samsung.

Shadowww
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1280×800 is too big? https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/ByVPmsSeSEG
But yeah, derailing this thread is a bad idea. I just HAD to note that 1280×800 is not too big, particularly because I’m pissed off by manufacturers who cut costs of their hardware by putting low-res displays in them.

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That’s a nice comparison, and good news…wonder if they’ll stay on top for long with what some of the other companies are doing. Thanks for sharing that. Still, with single LED emitters in every light I have that uses 18650 I still don’t see AW being dethroned, no need for 20A and I can’t see the Samsung cells having anything to offer above and beyond. Will definately be keeping an eye on these though, as I have someone here working on something for me that these might actually come into play! Smile

NightCrawl
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@Shadowww: My laptop is a few years old. Wanna donate me a new one?

@DBC: This is about IMR only. And I actually think they will stay on top for a while. Panasonics new high-power cell NCR18650E is inferior, Sanyos UR18650WX is inferior.. maybe the Sanyo UR18650RX could come close, but its not available.

Price-performance-wise AW has been dethroned a long time ago btw..

Samsung has a lot of cells to offer, some are better, some are worse, some are the same as the currently beloved cells.

DB Custom
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I’m very new to the 18650 cell. Like I’ve gotten 3 in the past month. When I was searching for what to get, seemed AW had the highest standing quality wise and was offering the new 3400mAh cell. So that’s what went into my very first 18650 light, the Solarforce L2P with M3 head. The next one I got, just a week or so ago was for a Solarforce P1d for my wife, went with the AW 2600mAh. Then I discovered, last week, the RediLast 2600mAh cell utilizing the Japan made Panasonic cell, for considerably less monies. So that one sits here awaiting it’s L2P host for my 3rd light, to use the EDC+ Triple Nichia 219 P60 drop-in.

Now I realize that the IMR cells are a horse of a different color, and I’m seeing where they can have advantage. But, at the same time, just acquired a couple of 26650’s with 18A rating made with Li-Ni-Mn-Co technology…are these the same or similar in a larger format? I got these for a 1 cell build that’s being worked on…1 for the light one for the charger. What do I need to know to ensure bad things don’t happen? Other than don’t take it too low, don’t overcharge (Ultrafire WF-188 or Cottonpickers USB @ 200ma) and above all, don’t Short! Will following these religiously make sure it operates with the safety of any other cell?

Thanks for helping out a noob.

Dale

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DBCstm wrote:
I’m very new to the 18650 cell. Like I’ve gotten 3 in the past month. When I was searching for what to get, seemed AW had the highest standing quality wise and was offering the new 3400mAh cell. So that’s what went into my very first 18650 light, the Solarforce L2P with M3 head. The next one I got, just a week or so ago was for a Solarforce P1d for my wife, went with the AW 2600mAh. Then I discovered, last week, the RediLast 2600mAh cell utilizing the Japan made Panasonic cell, for considerably less monies. So that one sits here awaiting it’s L2P host for my 3rd light, to use the EDC+ Triple Nichia 219 P60 drop-in.
Now you should discover Intl-outdoor (raised top, 2600mAh/3100mAh/3400mAh) and Keeppower (button top, same capacities) batteries, which use the same Panasonic cells, for even less money than RediLast Wink
NightCrawl
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Yeah, there are a lot of alternatives to AW.. for example KeepPower, EnerPower, Intl-Outdoor..

As for your cell.. what cell is it? LiNiMnCo could be about anything. 200mA will take ages though. And I'm no fan of Ultrafire chargers, I prefer Xtar.

Normally, LiIon cells are safe. Unprotected are a little more dangerous because there is no electronic to prevent some user errors. But with some common sense and caretaking, you should be fine. Dont short, dont let get too hot, dont overcharge, dont overdischarge..

DB Custom
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Yeah, that makes me feel so much better after having paid $20 a cell for the AW’s. Silly The dang L2P didn’t cost as much as the cell! This is an expensive addiction people! (or maybe that’s the custom lights I’ve got being made?) Addiction, nothing less! Smile Where do I sign?

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I got 2 cells from Powerizer, here http://www.batteryspace.com/High-Power-LiNiMnCo-26650-Rechargeable-Cell-... and indications are they’re in-house brand.

Please tell me this wasn’t a mistake!

NightCrawl
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No, they are good. Batteryspace doesnt sell crap. Those are high power but not as high power as true IMR cells. I would guess it some mix-chemistry like the CGR18650CH (rated 5C).

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Owned…I wish IMRs would come with low voltage protection, just in case.

Shadowww
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Slim Pickens wrote:
Owned…I wish IMRs would come with low voltage protection, just in case.
They don’t make protected IMR’s for a reason, not “just because”.
Protection would cause significant voltage drop at high currents. That’s unacceptable in situations where IMR cells are used.
See e.g. NCR18650B unprotected vs protected, and that’s just 5A:
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When I got those 26650’s I was looking at putting a pcb on em, the only thing or the best thing I could find would limit em to 8A, so why bother to buy 18A capable cells in the first place?

Slim Pickens
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Shadowww wrote:
Slim Pickens wrote:
Owned…I wish IMRs would come with low voltage protection, just in case.
They don’t make protected IMR’s for a reason, not “just because”. Protection would cause significant voltage drop at high currents. That’s unacceptable in situations where IMR cells are used. See e.g. NCR18650B unprotected vs protected, and that’s just 5A: !http://qs.lc/p/k2!

Wow, I really had no idea protection circuits involved that magnitude of resistance. Makes sense then. Thanks!

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Slim Pickens wrote:
Wow, I really had no idea protection circuits involved that magnitude of resistance. Makes sense then. Thanks!

The resistance in protection circuits depends on the trip current. Depending on chip uses they will trip with a voltage loss of 0.05 to 0.3 volt, the designer of the protection PCB then select enough fet transistor to keep the voltage below the trip voltage, until the desired trip current.

I.e. as long as the same IC is used for protection a 5A trip limit will have same voltage drop at 5A, as a 20A trip limit will have at 20A. This is probably also the reason that some protected batteries has a trip point at around 12A, instead of a more correct 5A to 7A value.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

MattSPL
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Thanks for doing the test Smile Nice result Smile

scaru
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Ooo... I may have to order some of these up, if only there was a place in the US that stocked them. Wink

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must follow this up Silly

 

MattSPL
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I ran one of the INR’s into a Direct drive XML P60 while measuring the current draw. I measured nearly 10Amps for about 2 seconds and the little wires in the Led melted, along with the inner part of the dome near the wires.

Sirius9
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It was honorable death :bigsmile:

 

MattSPL
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Sirius9 wrote:
It was honorable death :bigsmile:
Big Smile
DB Custom
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Drag racing at it’s finest! I wouldn’t have thought that would happen, cool test. See? This is why as a noob I’m having others mod some lights for me, I know good and well I’d fry things! Thanks for that, sorry she went but, well, wish you’d have had video rolling! Smile

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