Closed the sale - The Defiant "C" flashlight.

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dct73
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luvlites wrote:
dct73 wrote:
I doubt there is anything really wrong with that meter. Readings at 1m can be WAY off when it comes to throwers. Go by your 10m readings and disregard the 1m readings. Like I said in your thread about “bought lux meter, now what” you probably shouldn’t be using it at only 1m anyway.

77Kcd is pretty darn good. If I didn’t have another project coming in the mail right now I’d consider it!


He didn’t take any readings at 1m and only one of the lights was a thrower. And both lights were off by the same factor.

Take a look at some quick and dirty readings I took of six different lights at 5, 10, 15 and 20 feet with a $15 lux meter and notice how all, including the TN31 and HD2010, consistently “obeyed” the 1/r^2 rule, even at 5 feet.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/10277#node-10277

I’ve since taken many more readings from a wider variety of lights with a better lux meter (which I’ll post if/when I have time) and have never seen readings as inconsistent as what O-L posted. That’s not a slam, I love his work and am just trying to help.

Well excuse me. Two meters is still too close for a serious thrower.

DayLighter
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i would love to buy it.. but too bad i don’t own a hobby charger..
now if only it run 26650 batteries Big Smile

The only way to do a great work is to love what you do.

luvlites
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Old-Lumens wrote:
The meter does not have a peak setting, so someone has to be reading the meter, while someone aims the light at it. That’s why I used my wife for the “meter reader”, LOL.
How does that song by the Beatles go? Lovely Rita, meter maid…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se5JLYKQfDU
I have to mount my light in a holder on a table, then go do the reading myself Sad

Here’s how Fenix does it:
“Use the luxmeter to identify the brightest point of the beam pattern and record the highest indicated value. Results are reported in candela. Measurements shall be taken 30s to 2 min of turning on the device.”

luvlites
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dct73 wrote:
Two meters is still too close for a serious thrower.

Not according to the readings I linked you to, or ANSI/NEMA FL 1 (unless you don’t consider the TN31 a serious thrower).
apt323
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According to your numbers in the link there is a 10% + increase in lux from the 5’ mark to the 20’ mark in both the tn31 and the hd2010. Thats why you have to take the reading further back then one meter or even two meters. That is if my calculations are correct after correcting it back down to 1 meter. I think it allows the beam to focus better.
Tn31 at 5’ 110k at 20’ its 122k
Hd2010 at 5’ 37k at 20’ its 42k

Please correct me if I am not understanding somethin correctly.

**Bump for the 3c defiant OL thrower. **

Old-Lumens
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Ok guys, here's the second set of lux measurements.

I did readings myself, at 1 meter, 2 meters, 10 meters and 20 meters.

The lux meter I am using has three possible ranges

  • lux at 1x
  • lux at 10x
  • lux at 100x

 

At 1 meter I had to use the lux at 100x setting to get and the reading was 905  I would think I would multiply that by 100, is that correct? If so, then the reading would be 90,500

At 2 meters I had to use the lux at 100x setting and the reading was 265. That would mean 26,500 and here I am again, right where it was last night. This does not seem correct.

At 10 meters I had to use the lux at 10x setting and the reading was 56, which would mean 560  This does not seem correct.

At 20 meters I had to use the lux at 1x setting and the reading was 127

 

I think the meter is totally inaccurate. Does anyone want to chime in here? I did all the distances twice and got almost the exact same readings both times.

 

I will let y'all go from here. I am done and I like the old way better. It's damned bright.

I took it to work tonight and put it up against the stock version. It beat the pants off the stock light.

My PayPal address: oldlumens (insert the @ sign here) gmail.com

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scaru
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Old-Lumens wrote:

Ok guys, here's the second set of lux measurements.

I did readings myself, at 1 meter, 2 meters, 10 meters and 20 meters.

The lux meter I am using has three possible ranges

  • lux at 1x
  • lux at 10x
  • lux at 100x

 

At 1 meter I had to use the lux at 100x setting to get and the reading was 905  I would think I would multiply that by 100, is that correct? If so, then the reading would be 90,500

At 2 meters I had to use the lux at 100x setting and the reading was 265. That would mean 106000 and here I am again, right where it was last night.

At 10 meters I had to use the lux at 10x setting and the reading was 56, which would mean 56000

At 20 meters I had to use the lux at 1x setting and the reading was 127, which would mean 50800

 

I think the meter is totally inaccurate. Does anyone want to chime in here? I did all the distances twice and got almost the exact same readings both times.

 

I will let y'all go from here. I am done and I like the old way better. It's damned bright.

I took it to work tonight and put it up against the stock version. It beat the pants off the stock light.

Your are forgetting one step, I put the corrected lux readings above. Smile So going off that it is a pretty awesome light that does maybe 65kcd. (Asuming the meter is accurateish)

dct73
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luvlites wrote:
dct73 wrote:
Two meters is still too close for a serious thrower.
Not according to the readings I linked you to, or ANSI/NEMA FL 1 (unless you don’t consider the TN31 a serious thrower).

DrJones is probably our leading expert in this area. According to him:

“Most of you already know that measuring the spot intensity at only 1m distance is not a good idea, as the beam often has not settled to it’s ‘final beam pattern’ in that short distance. Even ANSI/NEMA FL1 demands a minimum distance of 2m; for throwers that is still much too near (I suggest a distance where the spot size is at least 10 times as big as the reflector/lens diameter). “

Old Lumens, I’ll quit side tracking your thread now.

luvlites
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apt323 wrote:
According to your numbers in the link there is a 10% + increase in lux from the 5’ mark to the 20’ mark in both the tn31 and the hd2010. Thats why you have to take the reading further back then one meter or even two meters. That is if my calculations are correct after correcting it back down to 1 meter. I think it allows the beam to focus better.
Tn31 at 5’ 110k at 20’ its 122k
Hd2010 at 5’ 37k at 20’ its 42k

Please correct me if I am not understanding somethin correctly.

**Bump for the 3c defiant OL thrower. **


Your calculations are correct but just because the 20’ readings show an increase in lux (they do for all six lights BTW), that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re more accurate, which is why I take readings at multiple distances and compare them. Also, those differences are within the margin of error for the lux meter, even though the 5ft = 1.5m. It’s not about allowing “the beam to focus better” it’s about measuring past the point where the expansion is spherical.
luvlites
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Old-Lumens wrote:

Ok guys, here’s the second set of lux measurements.


I did readings myself, at 1 meter, 2 meters, 10 meters and 20 meters.


The lux meter I am using has three possible ranges



  • lux at 1x

  • lux at 10x

  • lux at 100x

 


At 1 meter I had to use the lux at 100x setting to get and the reading was 905  I would think I would multiply that by 100, is that correct? If so, then the reading would be 90,500


At 2 meters I had to use the lux at 100x setting and the reading was 265. That would mean 26,500 and here I am again, right where it was last night. This does not seem correct.


At 10 meters I had to use the lux at 10x setting and the reading was 56, which would mean 560  This does not seem correct.


At 20 meters I had to use the lux at 1x setting and the reading was 127


 


I think the meter is totally inaccurate. Does anyone want to chime in here? I did all the distances twice and got almost the exact same readings both times.


 


I will let y’all go from here. I am done and I like the old way better. It’s damned bright.


I took it to work tonight and put it up against the stock version. It beat the pants off the stock light.


I calculated peak beam intensity in candela from your readings and got the same numbers as scaru (90500, 106000, 56000,50800). Not sure why there’s such a big difference… something ain’t right.
luvlites
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dct73 wrote:
luvlites wrote:
dct73 wrote:
Two meters is still too close for a serious thrower.
Not according to the readings I linked you to, or ANSI/NEMA FL 1 (unless you don’t consider the TN31 a serious thrower).

DrJones is probably our leading expert in this area. According to him:

“Most of you already know that measuring the spot intensity at only 1m distance is not a good idea, as the beam often has not settled to it’s ‘final beam pattern’ in that short distance. Even ANSI/NEMA FL1 demands a minimum distance of 2m; for throwers that is still much too near (I suggest a distance where the spot size is at least 10 times as big as the reflector/lens diameter). “

Old Lumens, I’ll quit side tracking your thread now.


That’s fine but the actual ANSI/NEMA FL1 standard will allow the TN31 for example to be tested at 2m. And my readings confirm it’s viable. So we have the standard and measurements versus opinion. I’m not saying distances greater than 2m shouldn’t be used because I do test at multiple distances myself for confirmation, I’m just challenging the conventional wisdom here that only greater distances will give accurate readings.
Old-Lumens
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Well, I think I have let this "sales thread" go to hell completely, so I will let this thread die and maybe try again.. or not.

I think the meter is a piece of crap. I am still fighting the seller over it. I opened a case with ebay, so at least I will get the auction money back.

I'm done, y'all fight it out if you want, but this thread is toast and I started the problem. Live and learn.

My PayPal address: oldlumens (insert the @ sign here) gmail.com

My YouTube Flashlight Video Channel

The BLF Modding Links Thread 

http://imageshack.com/a/img922/1374/jQ2wdL.jpg

 

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