A Perfect Dedome?

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gchart
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I’ve had good luck with a similar method, described in this post on the previous page.

EasyB
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I’ve had trouble warm-gas-dedoming some XPL V6 1A emitters. For some the domes came off clean, for others there was an “inner dome” that stayed very stuck to the phosphor. I gather from reading that V6 0D emitters also act like this.

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1002763#comment-1002763

cmflippen
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Hunter wrote:
Mitko wrote:
Yeah m8, i got my hands of a S4 1A roll, i also got some S4 1D with even better hunting tint yet i do keep them for special occasions Smile
Hi Mitko, is there a way to recognise this old good XPG2 S4 1A leds from new one that have worse performances than old leds?

Yes, take a look at this thread: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/45689

The old ones have 40 clearly visible dots on the die, new ones have more.

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Tom E wrote:

Oopsie, sorry didn’t respond. I’m thinking, pretty sure I’ve had no issues de-doming V6 1A’s, though haven’t in a while. The 0D’s are tough, but thought the 1A’s were ok. I’ve been using the warm gas method – works good for me, and then also am using ZEP Aerosolve II bought off of eBay – faster still. I got some racing fuel though, so next time I dedome, plan on using it with the warm technique – in a jar, sitting in a pot of water on the burner.


for the XPL, maybe it depends on the batch, dunno.

I guess that the problems i had were caused by the infamous 0D led’s, i had few of those laying around.

Ive never tried hot gas dedome, i have few xp-g2 and xpl leds that i need to dedome, i think this is the perfect time to test that out, time is not a factor here, just in search of a good and clean dedome.

gchart wrote:
I’ve had good luck with a similar method, described in this post on the previous page.

I missed this somehow, hot gas dedome is next on my list to try Smile

 Olight i3s, Olight S1, Olight S Mini, JetBeam Jet-1, BLF 348, Astrolux S41S, UF SK-98, Convoy S2+ 3*XP-G2, Convoy S2+ 3*XPL, Convoy S2+ 219CT, Convoy M1, Convoy C8, Brinyte B158, Courui D01, Convoy L6, Noctigon M43

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BobbyMK wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Oopsie, sorry didn’t respond. I’m thinking, pretty sure I’ve had no issues de-doming V6 1A’s, though haven’t in a while. The 0D’s are tough, but thought the 1A’s were ok. I’ve been using the warm gas method – works good for me, and then also am using ZEP Aerosolve II bought off of eBay – faster still. I got some racing fuel though, so next time I dedome, plan on using it with the warm technique – in a jar, sitting in a pot of water on the burner.


for the XPL, maybe it depends on the batch, dunno.

I guess that the problems i had were caused by the infamous 0D led’s, i had few of those laying around.

Ive never tried hot gas dedome, i have few xp-g2 and xpl leds that i need to dedome, i think this is the perfect time to test that out, time is not a factor here, just in search of a good and clean dedome.

gchart wrote:
I’ve had good luck with a similar method, described in this post on the previous page.

I missed this somehow, hot gas dedome is next on my list to try Smile

Hot gas will make short work of the XP-G2s for sure…I haven’t tried it on XP-Ls yet…just XM-L2s, XP-G2s, and XP-E2s. I always slice a + in the dome then suspend it in a jar of gas and let it boil until the dome drops off or is about to drop off. I dedomed 15 XP-G2 S4 0Ds and 9 XM-L2 U4 1As using this method last Saturday. There was no dome left whatsoever…not even around the bond wires. Just make sure you use at least 91% Isopropyl alcohol to wash the gas off of the emitter then canned air to blow any remaining silicone off.

Hunter
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cmflippen wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Mitko wrote:
Yeah m8, i got my hands of a S4 1A roll, i also got some S4 1D with even better hunting tint yet i do keep them for special occasions Smile
Hi Mitko, is there a way to recognise this old good XPG2 S4 1A leds from new one that have worse performances than old leds?

Yes, take a look at this thread: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/45689

The old ones have 40 clearly visible dots on the die, new ones have more.


thanks Thumbs Up
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Mitko wrote:
XHP35 with a hot running muxture ot medical beznine, trimethylphosphate, kerosene, and coresiline

At last a 100% nice results, absolutely no tint shift, !a is even better than 3D

Like 22-24% better than Hi version , nearly no lumen loss( like 5-6%)


If you really have achieved this with almost no lumen loss then I salute you sir! Thumbs Up I was one of if not the first to start dedoming many years ago. Developed many many methods over the years but nothing in my arsenal can dedome these newer LEDs. I have attempted to get some trimethyl phosphate and I’m finding it very difficult. Seems it is hard to get unless you are a research facility or large business. If you don’t mind my asking how were you able to get it?
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saabluster wrote:
If you really have achieved this with almost no lumen loss then I salute you sir! Thumbs Up I was one of if not the first to start dedoming many years ago. Developed many many methods over the years but nothing in my arsenal can dedome these newer LEDs. I have attempted to get some trimethyl phosphate and I’m finding it very difficult. Seems it is hard to get unless you are a research facility or large business. If you don’t mind my asking how were you able to get it?

Yes I remember that times when you started with de doming and making small pocket rockets.
You also did your own hand made copper dtp boards before noctigon and sinkpad.
And of course you held all candela records but I don’t know if you are on the top at the moment.

MEM for example from this forum(I thought that you are under that nick) – he said he invented RA-reflective aperture and that his patent was stolen from Wavien, and he really can produce his own versions of them but he disappeared from forum) and has showed 1,5mcd aspheric test.

Check his post… He really is crazy scientist…

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luminarium iaculator wrote:

Yes I remember that times when you started with de doming and making small pocket rockets.
You also did your own hand made copper dtp boards before noctigon and sinkpad.
And of course you held all candela records but I don’t know if you are on the top at the moment.

MEM for example from this forum(I thought that you are under that nick) – he said he invented RA-reflective aperture and that his patent was stolen from Wavien, and he really can produce his own versions of them but he disappeared from forum) and has showed 1,5mcd aspheric test.

Check his post… He really is crazy scientist…


I’ve seen some of his stuff but was not aware he had a patent on the collar. MEM is definitely not me though;) As far as I know my Victor Enthusiast is still the highest performing production light at 1.3Mcd. My lab projects are waaaaaaay past that however. Big Smile

The dedoming I was performing predated the pocket rockets BTW. That was the first I put it in production lights but earlier works with dedoming were in announced new records although I didn’t specify how I got there.

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saabluster wrote:

I’ve seen some of his stuff but was not aware he had a patent on the collar. MEM is definitely not me though;) As far as I know my Victor Enthusiast is still the highest performing production light at 1.3Mcd. My lab projects are waaaaaaay past that however. Big Smile

The dedoming I was performing predated the pocket rockets BTW. That was the first I put it in production lights but earlier works with dedoming were in announced new records although I didn’t specify how I got there.

Good to know that there is still place for improvements but not from Cree kitchen right? I figured out from last post that you may be making your own led emitter? If so that would be really something… You could earn more on led emitters than on particular super thrower mods…
There are approximately 10 000 modders on the world and we would all need from 10-100 pcs of them for our lights so I am really looking forward for something that can be equally good or better than good old and vanished G2S42B.

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luminarium iaculator wrote:

Good to know that there is still place for improvements but not from Cree kitchen right? I figured out from last post that you may be making your own led emitter? If so that would be really something… You could earn more on led emitters than on particular super thrower mods…
There are approximately 10 000 modders on the world and we would all need from 10-100 pcs of them for our lights so I am really looking forward for something that can be equally good or better than good old and vanished G2S42B.


I don’t want to derail this thread but yes I have been working on making my own LEDs. But not the epi layers. That is way beyond my capabilities. I am just mixing and matching off the shelf components. Swapping phosphor to other LEDs. Getting good enough to have a few hits along with a lot of misses. I can now reliably lift old school Cree phosphors(the good ones). Laying them down and binding them perfectly every time is proving difficult. If not perfect then I get massive thermal quenching.
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Don’t worry no one will get mad for a bit off topic talk here.
And if we all consider just a bit on that it is not off topic at all…

Making our own leds out of mixture of recycled leds is an interesting idea and of course we would need to de dome them for scraping and phosphor collecting.

I like your idea and I hope you’ll manage to crack it out. It will sure be hard… For example here we have interesting pic from Djozz:

So it would be really interesting to know how to put phosphor back on scraped dedomed emitter. My guess is that it should be melted somehow and than poured thinly on emitter surface?…

For that some kind of mold should be used around emitter cube and then when we pour hot phosphor in it and then it should probably be evenly spread under pressure?(some kind of glass above mold which will push off excess phosphor away?)

The thing that I would be concerned in mentioned method is how to scrape and put phosphor back around those tiny + wires on lets say XP-G2 emitter scrape.

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I have read this whole thread. Some parts multiple times and I’m still afraid to ruin my xpl2.2 leds. I might need to just such it up and try it like I did when doing my first xml2. My hesitation is that my results are never like those I see here even after practice and doing everything right. I’m using hot MEK. maybe it’s a weak batch?

saabluster
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saabluster wrote:
Developed many many methods over the years but nothing in my arsenal can dedome these newer LEDs. I have attempted to get some trimethyl phosphate and I’m finding it very difficult. Seems it is hard to get unless you are a research facility or large business. If you don’t mind my asking how were you able to get it?

Never mind Mitko. I found a way. And just for the record it doesn’t contain any of the chemicals you were using. Does this count as a perfect XHP35 dedome? Big Smile

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luminarium iaculator wrote:

So it would be really interesting to know how to put phosphor back on scraped dedomed emitter. My guess is that it should be melted somehow and than poured thinly on emitter surface?…

The thing that I would be concerned in mentioned method is how to scrape and put phosphor back around those tiny + wires on lets say XP-G2 emitter scrape.


I’ll be honest with you. I’m not 100% there but as of now the best I have achieved is attempting to keep the phosphor completely intact. Even just the act of scraping the phosphor off damages the phosphor. I developed a way to do it without scraping.

Buuuut. I still have issues when it comes to transplanting it to the new die. If not perfect thermal quenching kicks in hard. Also on even my best transplant it doesn’t perform quite as good. Been trying to nail down why.

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saabluster wrote:
saabluster wrote:
Developed many many methods over the years but nothing in my arsenal can dedome these newer LEDs. I have attempted to get some trimethyl phosphate and I’m finding it very difficult. Seems it is hard to get unless you are a research facility or large business. If you don’t mind my asking how were you able to get it?

Never mind Mitko. I found a way. And just for the record it doesn’t contain any of the chemicals you were using. Does this count as a perfect XHP35 dedome? Big Smile
!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/saabluster/Flashlight%20stuff/55A...!


Not Bad! Beer

KB1428 “Live Life WOT

luminarium iaculator
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saabluster wrote:
saabluster wrote:
Developed many many methods over the years but nothing in my arsenal can dedome these newer LEDs. I have attempted to get some trimethyl phosphate and I’m finding it very difficult. Seems it is hard to get unless you are a research facility or large business. If you don’t mind my asking how were you able to get it?

Never mind Mitko. I found a way. And just for the record it doesn’t contain any of the chemicals you were using. Does this count as a perfect XHP35 dedome? Big Smile
!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/saabluster/Flashlight%20stuff/55A...!

There is always more than one way to skin a deer Thumbs Up

You probably cut it with scalpel from side to side which allowed better fluid flow and thus better dome degradation?

I did not have any need for such large emitter so far but I am more than sure that I could do same or even better than you guys.

I even managed to de dome Osram Oslon 4715AS emitter

Saabluster,

Where will you put it? This ain’t go to any aspheric light right?

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Saablaster I’m interested to know what method you used Wink

Looks awesome !

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I’m about to do my first dedome. It will be an XM-L2 U2 1A. What would be the easiest method to do? I’d like it to be a bit warmer but hopefully without the green tint shift..

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That dedomed XHP35 looks fantastic! I can't tell, but is the phosphor surface ok? Looks softened up or something, maybe a result of chemical treatments?

Hopefully it's not too labor intensive. Guess that's the ultimate thing we want to achieve - not just one offs that take hours of work, but a repeatable, predictable process. The process can take hours, but if we had to spend hours to do one with high risks, it's not very practical to make in batches.

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I’m gunna be using MEK for a dedome but I just need something answered.
I see you all dedome on the board. Do you then reflow onto a fresh board afterwards or is an alcohol rinse sufficient!

Just an idiot with a soldering iron.

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Thom2022 wrote:
I’m gunna be using MEK for a dedome but I just need something answered. I see you all dedome on the board. Do you then reflow onto a fresh board afterwards or is an alcohol rinse sufficient!

I rinsed with isopropanol after dedoming with MEK on the board, and I’ve not seen any adverse effects.

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Erethryn wrote:
Thom2022 wrote:
I’m gunna be using MEK for a dedome but I just need something answered. I see you all dedome on the board. Do you then reflow onto a fresh board afterwards or is an alcohol rinse sufficient!

I rinsed with isopropanol after dedoming with MEK on the board, and I’ve not seen any adverse effects.

Awesome, dedomed and scraped xpg3 here we come!!!!!

Just an idiot with a soldering iron.

enesrap
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Mitko wrote:
X3

With the same method mentioned above

And with an AR glass the tint drops from 1A to something like 2B, pretty sure most f BLFers will like it, pretty cold for my taste though yet ppl like cold lights

Yes, dding using pure gas changes the tint , however i aitn using gas for that Smile

Last C8 XPG lights came out 190k+ wondering should i post them in the sell section Cash

Excellent Mitko, is the most XP cleanest eh seen, what recommendation can you give me to clean the remaining silicone surplus after putting it in gas to dedomar it? Eh used a toothpick but in several occasions eh cut the 2 wires that go to the phosphorus of the led. I have been told to try compressed air, but I doubt the out of the air will lift the phosphorus of the led. Thank you!

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Mitko's chemical may not leave silicone residues - not sure. For me, I don't consider it necessary or worth the risk to get every trace of silicone off. I'll try to be sure loose pieces are removed, but I won't risk removing stuck silicone around the wires.

enesrap
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Tom E wrote:

Mitko’s chemical may not leave silicone residues – not sure. For me, I don’t consider it necessary or worth the risk to get every trace of silicone off. I’ll try to be sure loose pieces are removed, but I won’t risk removing stuck silicone around the wires.

Thanks friend, I thought the silicon traces somehow affected the projection of the led.

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So… I wonder if anyone in the us or? Would be willing to purchase these items and then distribute them so they could be attainable and affordable on a small scale. I’m guessing there would be a lot of problems that would keep this from happening? Don’t know about shipping chemicals let alone multiple chemicals in the same shipment and … I’m sure this is not possible or yes?

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Erethryn wrote:
Thom2022 wrote:
I’m gunna be using MEK for a dedome but I just need something answered. I see you all dedome on the board. Do you then reflow onto a fresh board afterwards or is an alcohol rinse sufficient!

I rinsed with isopropanol after dedoming with MEK on the board, and I’ve not seen any adverse effects.

Why bother with the IPA, though? MEK evaporates with 0 residue; should be able to even just dribble some MEK over any loose bits instead of using IPA. Even 95% IPA has that nasty remainder of water…

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

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LightRider wrote:
So… I wonder if anyone in the us or? Would be willing to purchase these items and then distribute them so they could be attainable and affordable on a small scale. I’m guessing there would be a lot of problems that would keep this from happening? Don’t know about shipping chemicals let alone multiple chemicals in the same shipment and … I’m sure this is not possible or yes?

Had to look, you’re a Yooper, not overseas or anything, right?

Yesterday I stopped off at my local hole-in-the-wall hardware store to see if I can get some nice powerful solvent. Didn’t make my weekend trip where I could’ve stopped off at Lowes and pick up a gallon of MEK or xylene (the latter which can be used as an octane booster if yer so inclined), so didn’t want to wait another week…

Anyway, I go looking for “some nice powerful solvent that’d eat silicone… something like MEK, xylene, Stoddard’s solvent, whatever you got”. So, I get pointed to the little spray-bottles of “organic” this and “green” that, some crap that doesn’t even list the chemicals and probably doesn’t work that well anyway. Finally, I’m eyeballing the rest of the aisle, and right opposite it are maybe pint cans of both MEK and xylene! Sold! (Well, yah, probably 5× the price-per-gallon as the actual gallon, but…)

Anyway, if I can get it pretty easily in a hw store that carries maybe a half-dozen of each item because of limited space, you should be able to get some fairly easily, too.

“Big” stores like Lowes and Home Despot should have it for sure.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

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Thanks for the reply. I forgot an important part of my post. Facepalm so, ya, I can get MEK. actually that’s what I’ve been using with ok results but nothing like this thrower potion I am reading about Wink

Quote:
muxture ot medical beznine, trimethylphosphate, kerosene, and coresiline

Ya… da UP eh! How you know a’boot dem dare Yoopers?

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