FYI - some 'new' Fujitsu laptop batteries

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ohaya
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FYI - some 'new' Fujitsu laptop batteries

Hi,

FYI, I found this on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220842605858?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3...

it looks like they only have a couple left, but, in case anyone is interested…

Jim

Ubehebe
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Couldn’t resist. Grabbed both. Thanks for the tip! Last thing I need are more pack pulls but I just couldn’t resist the price.

SergioE
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Great find! Any idea what cells & size are in packs?

ohaya
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SergioE wrote:
Great find! Any idea what cells & size are in packs?

Hi,

I have no idea… but am thinking that they are(were) Japanese cells.

Jim

ohaya
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Hi,

Same seller put more up:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-FUJITSU-OEM-HIGH-CAPACITY-BATTERY-FPCBP232AP-FOR-LIFEBOOK-MH380-/321104049736?pt=Laptop_Batteries&hash=item4ac34af648

Jim

ohaya
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BTW, whoever gets these first, can you post back what cells you find in them?

I’ll do the same if I get them FIRST :)!!

Thanks,
Jim

ImA4Wheelr
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Quote:
ohaya wrote:
Same seller put more up:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-FUJITSU-OEM-HIGH-CAPACITY-BATTERY-FP…

Good find. Thank you for passing on the find. I bought one. The seller has a good rep, the six cells should be 2900 mah, and the case says Japan (so they should be good quality cells).

texaspyro
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ohaya wrote:
Same seller put more up

All gone… Party

ohaya
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texaspyro wrote:
ohaya wrote:
Same seller put more up

All gone… Party

Hi,

Maybe check again in awhile. I got email from the seller said that they had like 6-10 more, but seems like they’re putting them up a few a a time for some reason, so they might (I don’t know) put them up again.

Jim

Disclaimer (in case anyone wonders): I’m not associated with the seller, but I did buy a couple myself :)…

comfychair
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4 more gone. You guys are slow! Silly

ohaya
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comfychair wrote:

4 more gone. You guys are slow! Silly

comfy,

Or, you’re TOO fast :)??

Jim

P.S. Man, these better turn out good/well, otherwise…. :(…

comfychair
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They don't have to be anything spectacular to be worth the money. If they are, great - if not, they should still be new cells, which makes them about a kajillion times better than clapped-out used ones.

ohaya
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comfychair wrote:

They don’t have to be anything spectacular to be worth the money. If they are, great – if not, they should still be new cells, which makes them about a kajillion times better than clapped-out used ones.

HOPING :)!!

ohaya
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Hi,

I got the 2 that I ordered in yesterday, and pulled the batteries out of them.

The good news is that the batteries are NCR18650 MH12210,. which from what I can tell are Panasonic 2900 mAh.

The bad news is that, of the 12 pulled, they all showed voltage of ~1.9V :(.

I actually got them yesterday, and I’ve hesitated posting, because of the voltage, and because of the normal advice, which would be to toss all 12 batteries :(…

Let me preface the following with the fact that I know that this is the usual advice.

But, I was (1) ticked that these “new” batteries showed 1.9V, and (2) I really didn’t want to toss them and (3) I still consider myself fairly new to LI batteries, so I was curious…

So, I have an Accucel 6, and I decided to do the following with 2 of the batteries (thus far):

- Charge them up on the Accucel
- Discharge them on the Accucel
- Charge them up again

I will note that I only did one battery at a time, and I was monitoring the charger and the battery, esp. temperature, through the whole process, and was doing this in an area that I considered fairly safe (non-flammable surface, somewhat protected area).

Also, the reason I tried this is that I had found some info/threads on the other forum about re-conditioning very old (time-wise) batteries that had been idled for a long time. Also, those seem to indicate that I should have discharged much deeper than the Accucel would do it, by default, but I didn’t change that, and just let the Accucel do its normal discharge.

This obviously took awhile, especially the 1st charge, about 7 hours total for 2 batteries, but:

- I was able to get both batteries charged to 4.1+ V, open circuit. The 1st charge would bring them to about 3.8+ V. During the 1st charge, on one of the batteries, the charger would stop with “VOL SELECT ERR” occasionally.
- Neither battery temperature rose perceptibly through the charge discharge

At this point, I will probably do the rest the same way over time.

I am NOT recommending this to anyone else, but am just reporting what I did.

Jim

ImA4Wheelr
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Thank you for the report ohaya. I too don’t recommend what you did, but I have done the same many times with no ill effects. Sometimes the batteries are able to attain and hold full “new” battery voltages. I, of course, monitor these batteries closely and don’t use them in high current apps.

I wonder where the not lower than X voltage advice comes from. Is it based on any specific testing? In addition to safety, that information would be good for filing an Ebay claim since the battery is not in new condition as advertised.

I also wonder, if you had used the battery pack in a laptop. Would have the protection circuitry prevented it from charging and being used?

Can anyone with real knowledge in this area please chime in on this?

ohaya
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Thank you for the report ohaya. I too don’t recommend what you did, but I have done the same many times with no ill effects. Sometimes the batteries are able to attain and hold full “new” battery voltages. I, of course, monitor these batteries closely and don’t use them in high current apps.

I wonder where the not lower than X voltage advice comes from. Is it based on any specific testing? In addition to safety, that information would be good for filing an Ebay claim since the battery is not in new condition as advertised.

I also wonder, if you had used the battery pack in a laptop. Would have the protection circuitry prevented it from charging and being used?

Can anyone with real knowledge in this area please chime in on this?

Hi,

Been thinking about it more…

Remember that these are suppose to be NEW batteries, as in “never used”. From their condition and packing when I got it, I now believe that these were actually “new”.

Then, if they are actually new, and thinking about what laptop mfrs recommendations are for a new laptop would be, which is, I believe, to charge up the laptop to full, a couple of times, I think that it may make sense what I had to do. I think that these batteries were actually new, and only charged to a “storage” level, which is what ALL of them were at almost exactly the same voltage, i.e., ~1.9V, and that the “correct” thing, in retrospect, would be to treat them like batteries in a new laptop, i.e., fully charge, then discharge, etc.

I know that that’s what I’ve been told for LAPTOPS, so you’re right, that it is strange that the advice for flashlight batteries would be different? If I had followed that advice, I would’ve already tossed all 12 of the batteries already :(!!

Maybe, the situation is different between “new” batteries that are at low (~1.9V) level vs. “OLD” batteries that have been previously used for awhile, and maybe a long while?

I don’t know the answer to that, but, for now, I will probably go through the same procedure that I described earlier, i.e., fully charge on the Accucel, do a discharge, and then charge again, possibly several times (I think that I’ve seen some pages that said, to do the discharge-charge cycle for maybe 10 times for laptops). Also, I will make sure to monitor the process closely, as I did last night, for the battery temperature, etc.

Anyway, as I said, I’m not recommending any of this, but just reporting what I did, the results thus far, and what I’m planning to do, so take all of this “with a grain of salt”.

Later,
Jim

ohaya
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ohaya wrote:
ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Thank you for the report ohaya. I too don’t recommend what you did, but I have done the same many times with no ill effects. Sometimes the batteries are able to attain and hold full “new” battery voltages. I, of course, monitor these batteries closely and don’t use them in high current apps.

I wonder where the not lower than X voltage advice comes from. Is it based on any specific testing? In addition to safety, that information would be good for filing an Ebay claim since the battery is not in new condition as advertised.

I also wonder, if you had used the battery pack in a laptop. Would have the protection circuitry prevented it from charging and being used?

Can anyone with real knowledge in this area please chime in on this?

Hi,

Been thinking about it more…

Remember that these are suppose to be NEW batteries, as in “never used”. From their condition and packing when I got it, I now believe that these were actually “new”.

Then, if they are actually new, and thinking about what laptop mfrs recommendations are for a new laptop would be, which is, I believe, to charge up the laptop to full, a couple of times, I think that it may make sense what I had to do. I think that these batteries were actually new, and only charged to a “storage” level, which is what ALL of them were at almost exactly the same voltage, i.e., ~1.9V, and that the “correct” thing, in retrospect, would be to treat them like batteries in a new laptop, i.e., fully charge, then discharge, etc.

I know that that’s what I’ve been told for LAPTOPS, so you’re right, that it is strange that the advice for flashlight batteries would be different? If I had followed that advice, I would’ve already tossed all 12 of the batteries already :(!!

Maybe, the situation is different between “new” batteries that are at low (~1.9V) level vs. “OLD” batteries that have been previously used for awhile, and maybe a long while?

I don’t know the answer to that, but, for now, I will probably go through the same procedure that I described earlier, i.e., fully charge on the Accucel, do a discharge, and then charge again, possibly several times (I think that I’ve seen some pages that said, to do the discharge-charge cycle for maybe 10 times for laptops). Also, I will make sure to monitor the process closely, as I did last night, for the battery temperature, etc.

Anyway, as I said, I’m not recommending any of this, but just reporting what I did, the results thus far, and what I’m planning to do, so take all of this “with a grain of salt”.

Later,
Jim

Hi,

E.g.:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2218

Quote:
After 3 full charge and discharge cycles, your battery is ready for the road.

Jim

comfychair
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I suspect that if you had one of the laptops these batteries fit, you could plug it in, let it charge, and it would work fine and you'd never know anything about what the starting voltage was when it came out of the box. I've had new just-bought-from-the-store laptops that took more than 8-10 hours to complete that first charge before first use.

Battery layout is 2p3s, correct?

ohaya
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comfychair wrote:

I suspect that if you had one of the laptops these batteries fit, you could plug it in, let it charge, and it would work fine and you’d never know anything about what the starting voltage was when it came out of the box. I’ve had new just-bought-from-the-store laptops that took more than 8-10 hours to complete that first charge before first use.

Battery layout is 2p3s, correct?

I suspect you’re right.

I’m pretty sure it is 2p3s, but I didn’t get a chance to check the circuitry, because I kind of freaked out when I measured the voltages from the 1st one I opened, like “Why is it 1.9V?”, which is also why I spent most of last night doing that charge-discharge-charge thing. I now know how that other user feels (the person who posted about another battery deal that turned out to appear like a scam!), which, thankfully, I don’t feel like this one was :(…

I have at least one pic that I took, before I discovered the voltage, and then went off and started charging/discharging. I’ll upload the one or ones that I have in a bit.

Jim

ohaya
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ohaya wrote:
comfychair wrote:

I suspect that if you had one of the laptops these batteries fit, you could plug it in, let it charge, and it would work fine and you’d never know anything about what the starting voltage was when it came out of the box. I’ve had new just-bought-from-the-store laptops that took more than 8-10 hours to complete that first charge before first use.

Battery layout is 2p3s, correct?

I suspect you’re right.

I’m pretty sure it is 2p3s, but I didn’t get a chance to check the circuitry, because I kind of freaked out when I measured the voltages from the 1st one I opened, like “Why is it 1.9V?”, which is also why I spent most of last night doing that charge-discharge-charge thing. I now know how that other user feels (the person who posted about another battery deal that turned out to appear like a scam!), which, thankfully, I don’t feel like this one was :(…

I have at least one pic that I took, before I discovered the voltage, and then went off and started charging/discharging. I’ll upload the one or ones that I have in a bit.

Jim

Only one pic:

Jim

ImA4Wheelr
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I think the only way to get 10.8v and 5800mah is 2p3s.

ohaya, has your machine reported capacities on the discharge cycles? I imagine they may be lower in the first cycle or two, but it would be nice to know.

EDIT: Cross posted with your pic. Thanks for sharing that.

comfychair
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So the total mAh/Ah rating of the pack is determined by the number of cells in parallel, right? I thought I had it figured out, then got confused somewhere, trying to get back to where I was before... :Sp

ImA4Wheelr
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Yes, you are correct. The volts add in series and the amps add in parallel. 2P (2,900 × 2 = 5,800) and 3S (3.6 × 3 = 10.8).

EDIT: Not sure why a smiley is showing at the end above.

ohaya
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
I think the only way to get 10.8v and 5800mah is 2p3s.

ohaya, has your machine reported capacities on the discharge cycles? I imagine they may be lower in the first cycle or two, but it would be nice to know.

EDIT: Cross posted with your pic. Thanks for sharing that.

Sorry, I was so flustered by the voltage thing, that I didn’t bother to note the discharge results :(… I know you all are probably getting tired of hearing that, but trying to be candid here.

If you google the NCR18650 and MH12210, it looks like it comes up with a Panasonic 2900 mAh battery, with same wrapping style, so I think that that’s what these batteries are.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PANASONIC-NCR18650-MH12210-3-6V-2900mAh-Li-ion-Battery-18650-NEW-JAPAN-MADE-/121010030410

I have the next set going now, I’ll try to remember to check the discharge.

Jim

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One last question ohaya. Sorry for all the questions. I’m wondering if the “C 9907” is date code. Usually the date codes are in faint characters that are formed by perforations going lengthwise on the side of the cell. Usually the last part is a date code. Do you see anything like that on the side of the cells?

ohaya
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
One last question ohaya. Sorry for all the questions. I’m wondering if the “C 9907” is date code. Usually the date codes are in faint characters that are formed by perforations going lengthwise on the side of the cell. Usually the last part is a date code. Do you see anything like that on the side of the cells?

Hi,

I may’ve mixed batteries from the 2 packs I have, but just pulled one battery, and it has:

Large “C” smaller “Y”, and under that
9926

another one has:

Large “C” smaller “Y”, and under that
9907

That lettering goes around the battery, near the – end of the battery.

So what do those date codes signify? Sounds like both are from 1999?

Jim

ohaya
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BTW, all the batteries have “Made in Japan” on the gray wrappers.

Jim

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They will be much newer. The letters stand for the month and year. Y will be pretty recent, but I don’t have the date codes in front of me. I will get back on that.

I just looked through the Panasonic data sheets and such on these cells. They have all kinds of warnings, but not one mention of taking cells to low voltage being dangerous. The closes thing I could find was the following:

“Overdischarge can damage the performance of the battery. Equip the unit with a mechanism to
prevent overdischarge, especially in situations where the user may forget to turn the equipment off.”

comfychair
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Voltage falling due to long term storage should have much less negative impact than overdischarging it through an actual load, right?

Much better that the cells sit unused for 3 years than sit in a laptop that stays on the charger constantly for 3 years, too.

ohaya
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
They will be much newer. The letters stand for the month and year. Y will be pretty recent, but I don’t have the date codes in front of me. I will get back on that.

I just looked through the Panasonic data sheets and such on these cells. They have all kinds of warnings, but not one mention of taking cells to low voltage being dangerous. The closes thing I could find was the following:

“Overdischarge can damage the performance of the battery. Equip the unit with a mechanism to
prevent overdischarge, especially in situations where the user may forget to turn the equipment off.”

I’m assuming that discharge protection would have been in the Fujitsu battery pack circuitry?

I don’t think these have individual protection circuits. The wrappers on the negative end don’t go “around” to the flat part of the negative end, but only down the side, to within a couple of mm’s of the bottom, so I’m pretty sure about that.

Jim

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Yes the pack's circuitry handles the protection function, and also does the balancing for charging - that's all the crazy little wires going every which way inside.

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