Solarforce S2200 MT-G2

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comfychair
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Laptop adapter is easier, only two wires to mess with, and it turns on just by plugging it into the wall. Snip off the barrel connector and peel back the outer insulation to get at the + and -.

For an ATX power supply, at the 20-pin connector jumper the green wire to any of the black ground wires and the PSU should turn on (you can snip those two wires free from the connector and then to a toggle switch if you want, or splice them together permanently if you want to unplug it to turn it off). Some newer PSUs already have an on/off switch on the back, in that case just splice the green to black. The yellow & black wires at any of the 4-pin molex connectors will be your DC+12v source.

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tatasal wrote:

In my experience, using my iCharger 106B+ hobby charger, it would not matter much as long as both chargers are using the proper cc/cv charging method. Ordinary, constant voltage chargers will charge up to 4.2V, even more, but you cannot be sure how much current was pumped into it. You will notice this is the digital readout of the hobby charger. The 4.17 - 4.2v voltage will be shown in its readout during charging, but if you look at the amount of current pumped into the cell, almost another hour is needed to complete the current (shown in ma) to complete the charge and for proper termination. A cell charged in a cheap, CV only charger might display the same voltage at termination, but its current will most probably be low that that cell will run out of juice much earlier than the cell charged in a charger with the proper, recommended CC/CV method, specially in multi, series cell lights..

 

Thanks tatasal, I had not considered that.  I simply assumed the chargers would be using the correct CC/CV methodology and terminating correctly.  This is a flawed assumption.

However, it is my understanding that the last hour of charging in that algorithm is at a very low current and doesn't contribute significantly to the overall energy pumped in.  There would of course be some differences but I wouldn't have thought it would have caused the cell to run out "much earlier"?

Wouldn't the resting voltage check an hour or so after charging give an indication of this?  Or more than an hour?

Without access to a hobby charger, I guess some spot checks of voltage at various runtimes would be in order to see if there were any serious imbalances developing.  Of course, one would hope that any cells used in series applications were quality protected units.

ohaya
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comfychair wrote:

Laptop adapter is easier, only two wires to mess with, and it turns on just by plugging it into the wall. Snip off the barrel connector and peel back the outer insulation to get at the + and -.

For an ATX power supply, at the 20-pin connector jumper the green wire to any of the black ground wires and the PSU should turn on (you can snip those two wires free from the connector and then to a toggle switch if you want, or splice them together permanently if you want to unplug it to turn it off). Some newer PSUs already have an on/off switch on the back, in that case just splice the green to black. The yellow & black wires at any of the 4-pin molex connectors will be your DC+12v source.

The one I bought from nitro awhile ago came with a laptop adapter, but it also just plugged into the Accucel, i.e., using the original laptop adapter plug.

gadabout
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comfychair wrote:

For an ATX power supply, at the 20-pin connector jumper the green wire to any of the black ground wires and the PSU should turn on (you can snip those two wires free from the connector and then to a toggle switch if you want, or splice them together permanently if you want to unplug it to turn it off). Some newer PSUs already have an on/off switch on the back, in that case just splice the green to black. The yellow & black wires at any of the 4-pin molex connectors will be your DC+12v source.

 

Sorry for getting so off-topic in a thread about a new light but just a quick question comfychair.

I seem to recall reading some years ago that standard computer PSU's needed a dummy load when testing outside of the PC.  Something about a switching power supply being damaged by running with no load. 

Is this no longer the case? Would the hobby charger outputting to a couple of cells really be enough of a load?

Laptop bricks and wallwarts are obviously designed slightly differently.

comfychair
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gadabout wrote:

comfychair wrote:

For an ATX power supply, at the 20-pin connector jumper the green wire to any of the black ground wires and the PSU should turn on (you can snip those two wires free from the connector and then to a toggle switch if you want, or splice them together permanently if you want to unplug it to turn it off). Some newer PSUs already have an on/off switch on the back, in that case just splice the green to black. The yellow & black wires at any of the 4-pin molex connectors will be your DC+12v source.

 

Sorry for getting so off-topic in a thread about a new light but just a quick question comfychair.

I seem to recall reading some years ago that standard computer PSU's needed a dummy load when testing outside of the PC.  Something about a switching power supply being damaged by running with no load. 

Is this no longer the case? Would the hobby charger outputting to a couple of cells really be enough of a load?

Laptop bricks and wallwarts are obviously designed slightly differently.

It depends on the PSU; I think the load issue is just down to a voltage accuracy thing, and the load, if it needs one, is on the +5v line. I don't think it affects the +12v rail's output. I've never run across one that didn't work right without the external load trick though, and I think the ones that have that issue are fairly rare.

ohaya wrote:
The one I bought from nitro awhile ago came with a laptop adapter, but it also just plugged into the Accucel, i.e., using the original laptop adapter plug.

I don't know the Accucel 6 personally, depending on the model some have a barrel socket and others just have leads with alligator clips. The one I have is slightly different (Turnigy MAX80W) and just has the wire/clip input. But there are many variations in barrel connector dimensions so fit isn't guaranteed, it's down to luck. Laptop chargers are universal in that they are all around the right voltage and current to run a hobby charger no matter what style plug they use. Trying to find an adapter with a specific size plug to match a specific socket on a specific charger would be something of a nightmare, I imagine. Most listings will only give the compatible laptop models, and not the actual plug dimensions.

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All great information, and my S2200 and it’s load of Panny cells are on the way so I now feel better prepared to fire up this bad boy with some knowledge behind my belt. I’ve checked with local law enforcement (my neighbor) as to my planned beamshot location and am chomping at the bit to see how this giant performs. Smile

My target is 770 yds. Virtually nothing in between. From some 40’ elevation across water with the lakes dam about 10 yds to the left. So there will be visual 3D confirmation of the distance traveled to beam left, nothing but water to beam right. Unless someone happens to be fishing, then they might take offense! lol

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DBCstm wrote:
All great information, and my S2200 and it’s load of Panny cells are on the way so I now feel better prepared to fire up this bad boy with some knowledge behind my belt. I’ve checked with local law enforcement (my neighbor) as to my planned beamshot location and am chomping at the bit to see how this giant performs. Smile

My target is 770 yds. Virtually nothing in between. From some 40’ elevation across water with the lakes dam about 10 yds to the left. So there will be visual 3D confirmation of the distance traveled to beam left, nothing but water to beam right. Unless someone happens to be fishing, then they might take offense! lol

Are you planning to review it when it gets in? PLEEEEASE :)!

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It pays to wait..

How bright is bright enough...

Runtime VS Lumens...

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I don’t know about a “review” but I’d be more than happy to take some pictures of it, disassemble it within reason and share some beamshots. Essentially Foy has already reviewed it in the S1100, this one has a different emitter and probably different UI in the driver, not something that’s gonna show up in pictures though. I know the UI is different because the selector switch on the side (the one that glows green with good charge and red when low) goes through Hi-Med-Lo as a default, but a 2 second hold on this button gets you into the strobe and beacon modes. Nice job, hiding those. Don’t mind them being there just hate cycling through em to find Lo.

So, will this site work for beamshots? This was taken before sunrise so it’s a bit dark…but that gate tower is 770 yds away. Should be a good test and actually a bit far away for my competitor the HD2010.
DBC_April 29, 2013_054023 blf

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My S2200 is in the States, has gone through sorting in San Francisco and is on the way to Texas! Smile

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What you described sounds like a review to me :)..

And, that site looks great, but don’t fall in the water!

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Look at this thread for a pre-review, Foy gave the S1100 a thorough going over, and it’s the same light with some mods. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/21272

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DBCstm wrote:
I don't know about a "review" but I'd be more than happy to take some pictures of it, disassemble it within reason and share some beamshots. Essentially Foy has already reviewed it in the S1100, this one has a different emitter and probably different UI in the driver, not something that's gonna show up in pictures though. I know the UI is different because the selector switch on the side (the one that glows green with good charge and red when low) goes through Hi-Med-Lo as a default, but a 2 second hold on this button gets you into the strobe and beacon modes. Nice job, hiding those. Don't mind them being there just hate cycling through em to find Lo. So, will this site work for beamshots? This was taken before sunrise so it's a bit dark...but that gate tower is 770 yds away. Should be a good test and actually a bit far away for my competitor the HD2010. DBC_April 29, 2013_054023 blf

Really looking forward to your review.  The Crelant 7G10 has been somewhat of a disappointment to me.  I'm hoping it's just a matter of them not driving the LED hard enough.

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DBCstm wrote:
Look at this thread for a pre-review, Foy gave the S1100 a thorough going over, and it's the same light with some mods. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/21272[/quote]

It's the same light with a fundamentally different LED that's built for a fundamentally different purpose. If you're looking for a laserbeam thrower, you'll be disappointed with the MT-G2. If you want something that makes you laugh every time you switch it on, and go around to random strangers and say "dude, check this out!", you will love it.

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So, Comfychair, are you saying the MT-G2 won’t have the throw of the XM-L2 in the S1100? I’m not looking for that “laser beam” pencil thin thrower, but would like a nice enough hot spot for it to throw with a huge compliment of spill.

The reflector design with it’s diameter and depth are very much targeted at throw, so if the larger MT-G2 is going to nullify that, why bother? TIR optics on an XM-L2 give flood if that’s wanted.

Now you’ve got me thinking it won’t hit that gate tower at 770 yds. Sad Not a big deal really, 500 yds or even a great amount of light at 300 yds would still tickle me and perhaps cause some coyotes to cease existence.

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comfychair wrote:

DBCstm wrote:
Look at this thread for a pre-review, Foy gave the S1100 a thorough going over, and it’s the same light with some mods. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/21272

It’s the same light with a fundamentally different LED that’s built for a fundamentally different purpose. If you’re looking for a laserbeam thrower, you’ll be disappointed with the MT-G2. If you want something that makes you laugh every time you switch it on, and go around to random strangers and say “dude, check this out!”, you will love it.

This is what the Elektrolumens Triple XM-L2 in a 3D Maglight does, with a modified 9A battery drain and something in the neighborhood of 3000 lumens through TIR optics.

Edit: If the MT-G2 causes the S2200 to have a similar floody beam it will be up for sale the following day.

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No, it will not have the throw of a XML in the same size reflector - just compare the die sizes between the two. They're completely different. BUT, it is still a very tight beam, and still throws farther than anything I have around here to aim it at. It reaches out something like 3 times as far as a 'good' SkyRay King, even though they're both close to the same amount of light. And don't forget, a 2000+ lumen SRK will be using better than 2 amps to each LED, while the S2200 is only 3-3.3ish. A MT-G2 at the same total power would make the SRK seem like a 3D Maglite with an incandescent bulb.

But throwers are very strange beasts and their fans are rather strange, too... sacrificing output and practicality for extreme distance for nothing other than comparing it to other lights built for the same purpose... I just don't get it. I'll take a usable beam over a white laser every time.

I was not at all happy with the S1100 when it still had the XML/XML2 in it. I fkin' LOVE it with the MTG2. Love

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comfychair wrote:

DBCstm wrote:
Look at this thread for a pre-review, Foy gave the S1100 a thorough going over, and it’s the same light with some mods. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/21272

It’s the same light with a fundamentally different LED that’s built for a fundamentally different purpose. If you’re looking for a laserbeam thrower, you’ll be disappointed with the MT-G2. If you want something that makes you laugh every time you switch it on, and go around to random strangers and say “dude, check this out!”, you will love it.

comfy,

I’ve seen you, among others say that (it’s the same), but thought that was a generality.

Are the S2200 and S1100 really the same physical host from each other? Aside from the emitters, are the drivers exactly the same also?

If so, then SF is charging like $30 premium just for the MT-G2 emitter vs. the XM-L?

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DBCstm wrote:
comfychair wrote:

DBCstm wrote:
Look at this thread for a pre-review, Foy gave the S1100 a thorough going over, and it’s the same light with some mods. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/21272

It’s the same light with a fundamentally different LED that’s built for a fundamentally different purpose. If you’re looking for a laserbeam thrower, you’ll be disappointed with the MT-G2. If you want something that makes you laugh every time you switch it on, and go around to random strangers and say “dude, check this out!”, you will love it.

This is what the Elektrolumens Triple XM-L2 in a 3D Maglight does, with a modified 9A battery drain and something in the neighborhood of 3000 lumens through TIR optics.

Edit: If the MT-G2 causes the S2200 to have a similar floody beam it will be up for sale the following day.

I have a feeling it won’t be as floody as the Elektrolumens Triple XM-L2. A tentative prediction: the difference between the S2200 and S1100 is that the MT-G light throws a hugeass hotspot and has brighter spill with excellent tint; the reflector’s prodigious depth precludes it being a true flooder. That said, I (tentatively) reckon it’ll be in the neighborhood of ~60kCd and 500 meters of ANSI throw (distance to .25 lux). Yakkity yak, we’ll find out soon enough Wink

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Thanks for that confirmation Comychair, thought I was gonna get another wall of light. If you’re that pleased with the swap over, I probably will be as well.

I don’t like a light that has nothing but spot. I want to see what’s in the surroundings as well as what’s way out there…don’t want anything sneaking up on me while I’m illuminating one small area.

Jim, the UI is different in the driver and the power output to the emitter is likely different as well. We’ll see. And the only reason it’s a $30 difference at the moment is because the new one’s on sale and so is the old one.

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DBCstm wrote:
Thanks for that confirmation Comychair, thought I was gonna get another wall of light. If you’re that pleased with the swap over, I probably will be as well.

I don’t like a light that has nothing but spot. I want to see what’s in the surroundings as well as what’s way out there…don’t want anything sneaking up on me while I’m illuminating one small area.

Jim, the UI is different in the driver and the power output to the emitter is likely different as well. We’ll see. And the only reason it’s a $30 difference at the moment is because the new one’s on sale and so is the old one.

Hi,

Ahh. Ok, thanks for that info. No pressure, but I’m thinking that the S2200 may be my next light, depending on how your “test” goes :).

BTW, SF said they were taking a 2 week vacation (must be nice :)!). Did you get yours after they had gone out?

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Man that s2200 does look nice. I like both this one and the Crelant. Eager to see some reviews.

I like copper

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The body is the same between S1100-S2200. Driver UI is different (press & hold to get blinkie modes). 2200 lumens on Match's graph took about the same amperage as I get with mine, which is using the S1100 stock driver, so if there's a difference in power it's likely to be very slight.

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Hikelite wrote:

Here’s an overlay.

Forgive my peabrain, but I do not get this easywhite business. Are all MT-Gs in the 5000k range?

I like copper

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Haterade wrote:

Forgive my peabrain, but I do not get this easywhite business. Are all MT-Gs in the 5000k range?


EasyWhite 2-Step falls within the small blue quadrangles and 4-Step EasyWhite falls within the larger red ones. “Steps” refers to quadrangles approximating a MacAdam ellipse (smaller = better). For instance, 4-Step 5000k EasyWhite ensures you don’t get stuck with the tints that fall in the extremities of 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D. 2-Step EasyWhite ensures tint deviates even less than 4-Step from the black body line (desirable).
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A note of caution, there are definite differences in tint with MTG2 leds.

The one Crelant used in the 7G10 is just a tad warmer vs xmlt6.  Meanwhile the MTG2 used in the EAW OldLumens made, produces a much, much warmer, more beautiful color.

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infinitusequitas wrote:

A note of caution, there are definite differences in tint with MTG2 leds.

The one Crelant used in the 7G10 is just a tad warmer vs xmlt6.  Meanwhile the MTG2 used in the EAW OldLumens made, produces a much, much warmer, more beautiful color.


IIRC, Old used a 4000k MT-G2. Crelant probably used a 5000k MT-G2.
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The MTG2's "5000k" is somehow very different from the XML2 & XPG2's "5000k". I generally hate both those in that tint, too yellow-brown for my unsophisticated eyes, but the MT-G2 is just byoootiful.

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gadabout wrote:

tatasal wrote:

In my experience, using my iCharger 106B+ hobby charger, it would not matter much as long as both chargers are using the proper cc/cv charging method. Ordinary, constant voltage chargers will charge up to 4.2V, even more, but you cannot be sure how much current was pumped into it. You will notice this is the digital readout of the hobby charger. The 4.17 – 4.2v voltage will be shown in its readout during charging, but if you look at the amount of current pumped into the cell, almost another hour is needed to complete the current (shown in ma) to complete the charge and for proper termination. A cell charged in a cheap, CV only charger might display the same voltage at termination, but its current will most probably be low that that cell will run out of juice much earlier than the cell charged in a charger with the proper, recommended CC/CV method, specially in multi, series cell lights..

 

Thanks tatasal, I had not considered that.  I simply assumed the chargers would be using the correct CC/CV methodology and terminating correctly.  This is a flawed assumption.

However, it is my understanding that the last hour of charging in that algorithm is at a very low current and doesn’t contribute significantly to the overall energy pumped in.  There would of course be some differences but I wouldn’t have thought it would have caused the cell to run out “much earlier”?

Wouldn’t the resting voltage check an hour or so after charging give an indication of this?  Or more than an hour?

Without access to a hobby charger, I guess some spot checks of voltage at various runtimes would be in order to see if there were any serious imbalances developing.  Of course, one would hope that any cells used in series applications were quality protected units.

The last hour in a proper CC/CV charger contributes about a third of the total energy pumped into cell. In the digital real-time read-out of my hobby charger, you can see that although the voltage pumped is already in the 4.17 to 4.2V vicinity, the current is still way behind, usually by almost a third of its actual capacity, gradually increasing. So removing a cell that has reached 4.2v early on does not mean it has reached its full capacity, the current pumped will gradually decrease to about 1/10th of the charging rate you set before termination.
Also, a hobby charger will also tell you the health of your cell. Your cell may get to 4.17 -4.2V but you will also know how much current it stored by doing a discharge capacity test. You will notice this is a light that has a timed turbo mode. I have a SC600 that does turbo for exactly 5 min, then a step-down. Some of my battered, tired laptop cells cannot sustain the turbo mode’s 5 min run, dropping to High anytime much earlier in, not finishing the 5min run.

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I think I am getting it now. MTGs are still binned by X,000K but tend to be tighter binned with less deviation from the black body line… so the tint is “purer”.

That makes more sense. I think 4,000K would be my preference. Wonder what Solarforce uses? Probably 5,000.

I like copper

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