I'm shocked by this Shocker... (de-domed now, more info)

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Nightbird95
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Tom E wrote:

Yes, got photos — ohh, got her all open now!! The heat gun did the trick. Should start another thread… Lot of pics on the tear down.

And all this time I was thinking that Sup Beam is a level higher than the other Chinese manufacturers when it comes to QC. :~

Tom E
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Nightbird95 wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Yes, got photos -- ohh, got her all open now!! The heat gun did the trick. Should start another thread... Lot of pics on the tear down.

And all this time I was thinking that Sup Beam is a level higher than the other Chinese manufacturers when it comes to QC. :~

HHmm, don't think so... New thread here on the K40 tear down with pics: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24182

 

Nightbird95
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Tom E wrote:

Hhmm, 3 dark spots at 2 meters. Hhmm. Didn’t notice that – I’ll re-check this evening. Tailcap amps remained the same? I’m thinking you should have gotten double the kcd, or close to double, because I’m thinking that’s what I’m seeing, but my amps are way higher, and using U2’s.

Just finished re-installing my BTU reflector. Wink

A closer examination earlier revealed that the reflector was not properly seated over the LEDs. I placed layers of kapton tape over the copper stars to ensure that the reflector won’t short with the lead wires. The result is that my centering rings cannot be fitted properly over the LEDs because the tape was too thick. I removed the excess tape leaving a single layer over the lead wires allowing the centering rings to fit properly and the reflector to be properly seated over the LEDs.

Upon testing its beam, the dark spots were already gone. The misalignment and improper seating was the culprit of my ugly beam earlier.

I also took its lux readings at 6 meters and the average is 6265 lux which is equivalent to 225 KCD. A 17% increase over the improperly seated/aligned reflector and a 69% increase over the stock light. :bigsmile:

bibihang
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Nightbird95 wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Hhmm, 3 dark spots at 2 meters. Hhmm. Didn’t notice that – I’ll re-check this evening. Tailcap amps remained the same? I’m thinking you should have gotten double the kcd, or close to double, because I’m thinking that’s what I’m seeing, but my amps are way higher, and using U2’s.

Just finished re-installing my BTU reflector. Wink

A closer examination earlier revealed that the reflector was not properly seated over the LEDs. I placed layers of kapton tape over the copper stars to ensure that the reflector won’t short with the lead wires. The result is that my centering rings cannot be fitted properly over the LEDs because the tape was too thick. I removed the excess tape leaving a single layer over the lead wires allowing the centering rings to fit properly and the reflector to be properly seated over the LEDs.

Upon testing its beam, the dark spots were already gone. The misalignment and improper seating was the culprit of my ugly beam earlier.

I also took its lux readings at 6 meters and the average is 6265 lux which is equivalent to 225 KCD. A 17% increase over the improperly seated/aligned reflector and a 69% increase over the stock light. :bigsmile:


Sorry I don’t understand something here, you got 225kcd after dedoming the LEDs, the lux numbers seems a bit low for a dedomed XM-L2 BTU Shocker…

Tom E got around 180kcd by just simply swapped the LEDs into XM-L2 on Sinkpad with stock BTU driver. Or is it you did not mount your LEDs on Sinkpad/Noctigon?

Nightbird95
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bibihang wrote:

Sorry I don’t understand something here, you got 225kcd after dedoming the LEDs, the lux numbers seems a bit low for a dedomed XM-L2 BTU Shocker…

Tom E got around 180kcd by just simply swapped the LEDs into XM-L2 on Sinkpad with stock BTU driver. Or is it you did not mount your LEDs on Sinkpad/Noctigon?

Well that’s what I got after swapping my stock XM-L LEDS with dedomed XM-L2 T6 1Bs on ordinary copper MCPCBs. I did not use Noctigon or Sinkpads, just ordinary copper MCPCB. I ordered my XM-L2 T6 1Bs from Simon Mao and my copper MCPCBs from LED-DNA.

The lux readings of my stock Shocker (XM-L) was only 2690 at 6 meters or 133 KCD. It increased to 3870 lux at 6 meters or 192 KCD when I swapped dedomed 3 XM-L2 T6 1Bs on copper MCPCBs in it. It further increased to 4540 lux at 6 meters or 225 KCD after realigning and re-seating the reflector properly over the LEDs.

Tom E
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Yes - there's a couple of major differences there - T6 vs U2, direct thermal path copper boards vs copper boards with dielectirc layers. Other issues may be the way we measure for throw - I always hunt for the highest reading whcih is usually not the dead center. Most do this because that's what the standard says or implies - peak beam intensity.

Nightbird95
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Actually I followed your tip of looking for the highest lux readings within the hotspot and in my tests so far its usually between the center and the edge, not the center, of the hotspot.

Therefore I can still improve the performance of my BTU without changing drivers by simply installing better XM-L2s and direct thermal copper boards? Shocked

Anyway, I am already contented with its performance, for now, because it has surpassed my modified K40 already. The K40 uses the same dedomed XM-L2 T6 1B LED. I ordered a handful of these LEDs from Simon. My priority for now is getting this K40 to perform like (or at least closer to) the ones you & vinh worked on. :bigsmile:

Nightbird95
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Took the lux readings of my BTU in my office (yes my office) at 11 meters distance (I can only get to 6 meters at home) a while ago and I’m getting 3381 (average of 5 measurements) lux or 409 KCD at 1 meter. Shocked

I guess the readings I took at home at 6 meters is not accurate since it only gets me 225 KCD! The BTU modding I did wasn’t bad after all. Smile

bibihang
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Nightbird95 wrote:
Took the lux readings of my BTU in my office (yes my office) at 11 meters distance (I can only get to 6 meters at home) a while ago and I’m getting 3381 (average of 5 measurements) lux or 409 KCD at 1 meter. Shocked

I guess the readings I took at home at 6 meters is not accurate since it only gets me 225 KCD! The BTU modding I did wasn’t bad after all. Smile


Now we are talking!
Nightbird95
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Yeah! :bigsmile:

Unfortunately, my K40 readings which is 252K (2081 at 11 meters) still sucks compared to those done my TomE & vinh. Sad

bibihang
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You did the K40 mod by yourself? Did you do the resistor mod like what they do?

Also does your BTU Shocker has more neutral tint now?

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bibihang wrote:
You did the K40 mod by yourself? Did you do the resistor mod like what they do?

Also does your BTU Shocker has more neutral tint now?

Yes I did them all with the patient coaching of the experts here like TomE.

I used XM-L2 T6 1B LEDs from Simon Mao on my BTU Shocker, Sup Beam K40 and Small Sun ZY-T08. I dedomed all LEDs by ‘marinating’ them in gasoline. All three flashlights give the same tint which is greenish neutral white.

For the K40, I did a direct-wire like TomE did, i.e. a jumper wire was connected over the sense resistors and all lead wires were replaced with AWG 22 from IOS. I’m getting 3.77 Amps at 11.67 volts at the tailcap but I only get 2.55 Amps at the LED. I think something is wrong with my K40 driver. The mod only gets me to 252 KCD as opposed to 400+ KCD for TomE who did the same mods. Sad

For the BTU Shocker, I reflowed the XM-L2 LEDs on copper MCPCBs (not Noctigon or Sinkpad), made a mirror finish on my pill using 1000 grit sandpaper, and replaced all lead wires with AWG 22. This mod gets me to 409 KCD.

For the T-08, I also did a direct-wire and replaced all wires with AWG 22. I also replaced its lens with AR lens from CNQG which is a millimeter thinner than the stock lens. To cover up for that and since I don’t have a 25 mm copper MCPCB, I used the stock 25 mm aluminum MCPCB but added a 1 mm copper heat sink behind it and a 2mm copper heatsink inside the pill. This mod gets me to 208 KCD. It can still be increased because I’m only getting 2.41 Amps at the tail at 4.16 volts for the direct-wire. I’ve read others using Nanjg drivers and getting currents as high as 4.5 Amps. I used a V10+ 4 Amps driver before and I loved the ramping but I can only go to 2.01 Amps at 4.12 volts at the tail that’s why I switched back to its original driver. Smile

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Now these 400k’s sound nice and what I was hoping/expecting to see. Cool.

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if you sell these or will mod one
LMK prices

Tom E
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I'm working on 3 right now - with one I'm concentrating on, I'm having focusing issues with the dark areas in the center of the beams - throw # is in the high 300's, not 400's.  Need to do more tweaking -- this takes a lot of time. I don't think I'll be doing any more than I already committed to - too much time and effort.

I'm thinking using 20 gauge wires is hurting - should have used 22 or 24 to lower the profile of the wires over the PCMCB's -- the wires is what the reflector sits on when tightened up. I'm gonna try sanding down the back of the reflector and maybe sanding down the 3 plastic LED alignment pieces to maybe cut down on blockage of light beams.

Nightbird95
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What I did with my lead wires that posed a problem in ‘seating’ the reflector was remove the thick silicon skin, flatten the wires a bit, then enclose them with kapton tape. I did not wrap the tape around, I just merely folded it over the ‘flattened’ wire. Smile

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hhmm!! Good idea!! Believe it or not, I stopped at Harbor Freight last night on my way home from work and bought this: http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-x-36-inch-belt-6-inch-disc-sander-97181.html. Plan on taking down the back of the reflector a little to see if that helps. Also, want to sand down, a little, the plastic LED alignmnet pieces - thinking they partially block some output as well - done it before on other lights and it helped.

But -- gotta look at what you did first. What gauge wire did you use? I used 20 gauge on the long wires to the driver, and 22 gauge for the 2 star to star wires. What I did different this time was angle the wires to overlap the star more because last time, I had a partial ground on an exposed wire to the reflector. So for this time, I got more wire insulation on the top of the star but less risk of grounding -- can't win...

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I’m using AWG 22 wires from IOS. I had some problems with the lead wires passing over the 20 mm copper stars.

I haven’t tried AWG 20 wires yet so that grinder sander might still be useful. Smile

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I should have used the 22 gauge for the driver as well - don't think the 20 gauge makes any difference -- should have had detailed notes on all these mods... argh! Also got a Shocker in from JOE that vinh mod'ed - it's got a worse out of focus condition than mine right now so I'll need to re-do that one as well.

Oh --- comparing these side by side, the vinh one is supposedly U2 1C's de-domed and mine is IOS U2 1A's de-domed and what a tint difference!! The 1C's came out pretty dark yellow. Still wonder if they were actually T6 3C's -- so much yellow when de-domed...

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Wow, very attractive numbers!

I’m surprised the light doesn’t get too hot. Smile

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ryansoh3 wrote:
Wow, very attractive numbers! I'm surprised the light doesn't get too hot. :)

It gets freak'n hot for sure, but it's a big heavy head - biggest, heaviest around...

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My 6.5A ish K40 seems to be getting hotter quicker than the modded BTU. Big Smile

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Nightbird95
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So the XM-L2 U2 1As from IOS has better tint when de-domed? I’m currently using XM-L2 T6 1Bs on my Shocker, K40 & T08 and I’m not sure whether to upgrade to XM-L2 U2 1As or XM-L2 U2 1Cs from IOS.

Does JOE’s Shocker have the doughnut beams at 2 to 3 meters. I had that problem before when my reflector was not properly seated.

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ryansoh3 wrote:
My 6.5A ish K40 seems to be getting hotter quicker than the modded BTU. Big Smile

Mine does too. I think it because the BTU has a a lot more mass of metal to ‘absorb’ the heat.

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Nightbird95 wrote:
So the XM-L2 U2 1As from IOS has better tint when de-domed? I'm currently using XM-L2 T6 1Bs on my Shocker, K40 & T08 and I'm not sure whether to upgrade to XM-L2 U2 1As or XM-L2 U2 1Cs from IOS. Does JOE's Shocker have the doughnut beams at 2 to 3 meters. I had that problem before when my reflector was not properly seated.

Yes -definitely visible at 2-3 meters and the center beam looks ugly even out at 5-7 meters. Couple of weird things on vinh's mod: he replaced the carrier springs but didn't copper braid them - resulting amps was low - don't think the spring replacements helped at all. When I took the same cells, moved them into a copper braided Shocker carrier, amps went way up. Also, he used thermal epoxy under the stars that looks like Fujik, and they all moved and left a trail of epoxy to the left of each star -- same thing I see in a factort Shocker. It seems to be from tightening the bezel, the reflector spins along with the glass and o-ring.

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I agree, de-doming 1C tints and such usually end up quite crappy, yellowish, sometimes greenish.

1A is a much better starting point IMO

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Yes - 1A's seem to come out well de-domed. I've been de-doming TN31's and my K40, but I believe they come with 1C's, so they do come out a bit yellow. With the de-domed 1C Shocker, it 's really dark yellow though. I could look at the exposed LED and the phoshor appears to be a darker yellow that a 1A, and only other time I noticed that is on a de-domed T6 3C, so I'm not so certain it's 1C's as vinh said they were. He buys the emitters from IS and they offer both U2 1C's and T6 3C's bare - no 1A's unfortunately. IOS has 1A's, but not bare, but his pre-mounted on Noctigons are a lot cheaper that IS's bare emitters.

With domes, the warm T3's and T4's beams look a lot better - don't notice any yellow at all, but I see yellow in 1C's and 3C's.... weird

Nightbird95
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Tom E wrote:

Nightbird95 wrote:
So the XM-L2 U2 1As from IOS has better tint when de-domed? I’m currently using XM-L2 T6 1Bs on my Shocker, K40 & T08 and I’m not sure whether to upgrade to XM-L2 U2 1As or XM-L2 U2 1Cs from IOS. Does JOE’s Shocker have the doughnut beams at 2 to 3 meters. I had that problem before when my reflector was not properly seated.

Yes -definitely visible at 2-3 meters and the center beam looks ugly even out at 5-7 meters. Couple of weird things on vinh’s mod: he replaced the carrier springs but didn’t copper braid them – resulting amps was low – don’t think the spring replacements helped at all. When I took the same cells, moved them into a copper braided Shocker carrier, amps went way up. Also, he used thermal epoxy under the stars that looks like Fujik, and they all moved and left a trail of epoxy to the left of each star — same thing I see in a factort Shocker. It seems to be from tightening the bezel, the reflector spins along with the glass and o-ring.

I tightened the reflector retaining screw real good first before tightening the bezel to prevent or minimize the twisting of the reflector. Excess twisting of the reflector also cuts the silicon skin of the lead wires.

Nightbird95
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RaceR86 wrote:

I agree, de-doming 1C tints and such usually end up quite crappy, yellowish, sometimes greenish.

1A is a much better starting point IMO

Tom E wrote:

Yes – 1A’s seem to come out well de-domed. I’ve been de-doming TN31’s and my K40, but I believe they come with 1C’s, so they do come out a bit yellow. With the de-domed 1C Shocker, it ‘s really dark yellow though. I could look at the exposed LED and the phoshor appears to be a darker yellow that a 1A, and only other time I noticed that is on a de-domed T6 3C, so I’m not so certain it’s 1C’s as vinh said they were. He buys the emitters from IS and they offer both U2 1C’s and T6 3C’s bare – no 1A’s unfortunately. IOS has 1A’s, but not bare, but his pre-mounted on Noctigons are a lot cheaper that IS’s bare emitters.

With domes, the warm T3’s and T4’s beams look a lot better – don’t notice any yellow at all, but I see yellow in 1C’s and 3C’s…. weird

So I guess I’ll stay away from 1Cs and 3Cs then. I’ll get the 1As on Noctigon from IOS. Thank you RaceR86 & TomE! Smile

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Oh - vinh's light had no screw in it, it was totally gone! Fortunately I found one that fits, just got to cut it down. But yes, I'm doing the same thing - tightening it up good. I got in a Shocker from the factory that had the stars twisted around so bad, one partially covered the wire hole and cut the silicon on one of the wires. The light worked but had lower output than expected and as I got from the others.

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