I'm shocked by this Shocker... (de-domed now, more info)

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Tom E
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Here's pics of the re-work on the reflector, updated from previous (post #134).You should be able to notice the gouges from the Harbor Freight rotary tool (not dremel) are tighter to the LED holes and extend more towards the center. When I dropped the reflector onto the LED's, it sat down flat, nice. I wanted to avoid sharp edges from cutting wires, so I angle trimmed the edges then sanded all the edges down:

 

The driver:

 

Mounted, there's some slop but the retaining ring secures it down and it tightens up pretty good. I've been using CRC 2-26 in this area:

rdrfronty
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Tom, I do believe you’ve covered about every trick and tweak known to man to get these supershockers performing like you do.
I played a little more last night with my two shockers – my new BTU Supershocker(4260L & 477K) and my older BTU Shocker(3760L & 184K). Both lights were created by Tom E, I need to add. It was interesting comparing the two outside. Shooting them at a treeline about 150m away. First thing you notice is the tint. The new dedome shocker is a fairly warm, where as the older shocker is cool white. Both are fine to my eyes though with the dedomed shocker being a pleasant warm and domed shocker pure white. Next thing you notice after about 10 seconds is the dedomed shocker starts getting a little warm. The domed shocker was was still cool. But that’s to be expected with the dedomed light pushing 6A per LED, for a total of 18A. That’s a lot of power coming through that light and heat is the obvious by factor of that. Good thing these BTU’s are big heavy lights to help safely and properly get that heat dissipated. Now big & heavy is a good thing Smile
Anyway, both lights are very impressive. Both have awesome flood and both have awesome throw. After that, you do obviously notice the much more intense hotspot of the Supershocker. At 150m it was pretty darn bright. Flood coverage is still about the same on both, but a little brighter on domed BTU. The slight lack of light in the flood, and I do mean slight, on the Supershocker obviously is gathered up and concentrated in the center for the awesome throw.
What I think is awesome about these modded BTU’s is just how much area is lit up. Even the dedomed Supershocker with a 477Kcd literally lights up everything in front of you. And even though it has an intense spot, that spot isn’t well defined. It just slowly gets less intense the further away from the center you get. As apposed to some of my other serious single LED throwers like the TN31vn, K40vn, and SBT70 powered SR90. Those 3 lights all have VERY intense spots, very well defined one. And they all have a nice spill. However you have an immediate and serious drop of of lux from that spot to the spill. And the spill on those lights generally isn’t too usuable. Mainly I think that’s from the bright hotspot messing with your eyes and not allowing you to see much in the greatly diminished spill.
The Supershocker doesn’t have that issue. You see everything VERY well from the center until the light basically stops in the sides. You do have some slight rings for the last few degrees on the outside that is dim, as is typical for most triple LED lights. But 95% of the coverage from these lights is nice and bright. Like I said above you do see a slight loss in spill lux for the Supershocker vs the domed shocker, but its still very impressive.
So Tom I do believe all your hard work has paid off. My original BTU is still one of the most impressive lights I’ve ever held in my hands that still retains full regulation while still retaining decent runtime and worry free operation. And the Supershocker is simply a work of art. Getting 4260L and 477Kcd out of a LED light is unquestionably amazing. Nothing even comes close to it in the LED market. We’ve had 3 HID’s since we’ve started this hobby. A 35Wt Ryobi, a 85wt Yezl, and 60wt FF4. The Ryobi get spanked bad. My stock BTU even beat it. Now the 85wt Yezl, modded one at that, gives the Supershocker a run at least. But still gets beat soundly. The Supershocker lacks about 440 lumens vs the Yezl on high, but that slight difference is killed with the 477kcd of the BTU vs 291Kcd of the Yezl. Next up is the FF4. Now the Supershocker and 60w FF4 are a pretty even match. The FF4 does easily beat the Supershocker on high with 7000L even squeaks past it in medium with 5200L. The Supershocker does still at least stay in the lumen run with 4260L and takes the win in throw with 477Kcd vs 430Kcd of the FF4. Now the FF4 does over better runtime with the 4 cells and lower amp requirement. But the FF4 does have very limited runtime on high too. And then you got that annoying warmup time HID’s require. Takes a good full minute for the FF4 to get close to full power. By then you’ve used 1/3 of your allowed 3 min high time. So basically I say these two lights are a draw. And I think that’s saying something. The FF4 is likely the best performing non short-arc HID on the market. For a LED to even compete with it, and in this case & and in my opinion match it – is simply quite impressive.
Thanks Tom for the awesome light (lights in my case)!!!!!!

MRsDNF
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Thanks for the extra info to you all. Its amazing reading about all your experiences with these lights that most of us will never own.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

blueb8llz
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that is absolutely amazing! i still cant really believe it myself. that is crazy high lumens for something that throws that damn far.
i cant imagine how the beam looks. it must light up a good decent area close by and also see a pretty big hot spot hundreds of meters away.
cant wait to see beam shots on this bad boy foreals. one of the baddest lights out there right now!

RMM
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Quick question for you Tom E or whoever has experience with one of these: are you using 16mm or 20mm stars for these mods? I read in an earlier thread that the stock stars are 16mm, but that 20mm will fit. Is that correct?

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LinusHofmann
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RMM wrote:
Quick question for you Tom E or whoever has experience with one of these: are you using 16mm or 20mm stars for these mods? I read in an earlier thread that the stock stars are 16mm, but that 20mm will fit. Is that correct?

I’ll jump in here quickly but go by Tom’s final word on the matter. There is tonnes of space on that emitter plate, 20mm stars should work fine and would be my preference.
Have you got yourself a shocker project on the go as well? hehe Silly

skyrider1
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I could be wrong but it looks like the pictures posted in the previous page are 20mm noctigons.

Tom E
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LinusHofmann wrote:
RMM wrote:
Quick question for you Tom E or whoever has experience with one of these: are you using 16mm or 20mm stars for these mods? I read in an earlier thread that the stock stars are 16mm, but that 20mm will fit. Is that correct?
I'll jump in here quickly but go by Tom's final word on the matter. There is tonnes of space on that emitter plate, 20mm stars should work fine and would be my preference. Have you got yourself a shocker project on the go as well? hehe :P

Oh - Yes, always used 20's, and yes - stocks are 16's. My last 2 were mods of mods, so, I de-domed existing ones on SinkPAD's, but my last full mods I've been using Noctigon's. Really dunno bout any differences, but possibly the SinkPAD's do very little, slightly better. OF course my favorite tint to de-dome is a 1A. The 1C's come out too yellow. 0D would be better, but not worth dropping from a U2 to T6 bin just to get a 0D tint.

Now I'm been tweaking the super shocker mod all along. With the IOS driver, back and forth with 22 gauge vs 20 gauge wires, and whether to use the thermal pad the driver comes with, or pot it with Fujik epoxy... Someone posted interesting info bout pads and potting, that they are pretty ineffective unless connected to a heat sink in close proximity. So, I'm thinking it may not be doing much, but hope it doesn't make it worse...

RMM
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I just pulled the trigger on a Shocker. I sold or am selling some other lights to pay for this thing but I just couldn’t resist. I don’t know how much I’ll actually end up using it since it’s so big but I had to try my hand at modding this thing. I have a good blueprint right here in this thread. Not looking to do anything as innovative as Linus Smile

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Tom E
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Recently did a couple of super Shocker mods to Shockers I previously modded, before I knew what I know now, or thought I knew, and might know better now... You know what I mean, or used to mean... Smile 

I had one major problem with my reflector modding:

Took it a little too far, so now I'm doing it differently. Bought this kit from FT:

 

Not so aggressive on the cuts near the LED holes now -- worked out well. Then de-domed the emitters:

Picture light provided by a XM-L2 U2 1A:

Picture light provided by a XM-L2 T3 6A1:

 

Cleaned up and mounted using AS5:

Some other stuff used:

RMM
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Thanks for the tips! I’ve got the same sort of bits and am even using the same harbor freight rotary tool. Those type of bits work well on aluminum because they don’t load up easily.

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unknown00101
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Offtopic: How do you like that rotary tool?

RMM
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It’s been pretty good for me so far. A good value. I’ve had some of the cheaper genuine Dremel models in the past and IMO this is on par. As with anything harbor freight, wait until it goes on sale and then stack your 25% off coupon on top of the sale price. The cheaper rotary tool from harbor freight is a piece of junk.

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ImA4Wheelr
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Nice tip Tom E.  I bought and received that same set, but have not tried it yet.  Nice work on that reflector.  You're much braver than me.   I've really avoid reflector modding ever since grinding a couple holes in a HD2010 reflector.

unknown00101
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RMM wrote:
It’s been pretty good for me so far. A good value. I’ve had some of the cheaper genuine Dremel models in the past and IMO this is on par. As with anything harbor freight, wait until it goes on sale and then stack your 25% off coupon on top of the sale price. The cheaper rotary tool from harbor freight is a piece of junk.

This one right? $25 shipped after coupon… hmm.

RMM
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Yep. I think I paid like $16 for mine (in store). Sometimes the sales are better than others.

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scotlarock
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That’s a good looking mod and light you have there…who is the lucky owner?

Tom E
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scotlarock wrote:
That's a good looking mod and light you have there...who is the lucky owner?

Smile - ok, you got me... It's yours... Frown

Yes, looking real good. Went smooth for the most part, once I got the ball rolling...

------------------------------------------

I love my "dremel" from HF! I do a ton with it, usually more good than damage... For the FT set of tips, a whole lot cheaper than the official dremel tips, and like the variety. I only used one so far but it held up well on 2 Shockers.

bibihang
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Check in!! I’m late to the Super Shocker party but I have just built one for myself!! :bigsmile:

rdrfronty
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bibihang wrote:
Check in!! I’m late to the Super Shocker party but I have just built one for myself!! :bigsmile:

A BTU party is a fun one too!
unknown00101
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rdrfronty wrote:
bibihang wrote:
Check in!! I’m late to the Super Shocker party but I have just built one for myself!! :bigsmile:
A BTU party is a fun one too!

Ain’t no party like a BTU party cause at a BTU party you leave blind. 8)

bibihang
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unknown00101 wrote:
rdrfronty wrote:
bibihang wrote:
Check in!! I’m late to the Super Shocker party but I have just built one for myself!! :bigsmile:
A BTU party is a fun one too!

Ain’t no party like a BTU party cause at a BTU party you leave blind. 8)


Imagine the ceiling spotlights at the party are Shockers. J)

Well I have to thanks Tom E and many other members in BLF for giving me advices on building this dedomed Shocker. I was so afraid to make any mistake as the host ain’t cheap, so I did spam a lot of PMs to Tom for help. I have already owned a stock Shocker more than 6 months ago but this one… just got it done in last night!

Dedomed XM-L2 U2 1A on Noctigon, 22AWG wires everywhere, DRY driver, copper braided batteries carrier…

Tom E is the DJ! 8)

EDIT: No good cells with me now so no measurements yet at the moment, sorry folks.

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Figured this would be as good of place as any to post this.

I just replaced the LEDs in my Shocker and I'm really amazed how you can put up with modding them Tom E.  This thing is a pain to work on.  It's "done", but I still think the reflectors need to sit deeper.  I'll have to take more material away from the underside of the reflector.  I actually cut the corners on the MCPCB down to the copper so the button top bolts sit down rather low.  My dedomes are pretty bad though.  Did the gasoline trick, then scraped away at the silicone around the emitter, not realizing right away that there is a 3rd bond wire on the side.  They all seem to still be intact though, phew.  Used some LED Seal and the coating isn't very even.  Maybe I should have applied more than one coat.  Using the stock BTU driver still, so that will be the next thing to be replaced.

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RMM wrote:
It’s been pretty good for me so far. A good value. I’ve had some of the cheaper genuine Dremel models in the past and IMO this is on par. As with anything harbor freight, wait until it goes on sale and then stack your 25% off coupon on top of the sale price. The cheaper rotary tool from harbor freight is a piece of junk.
100% agreed, NO torque whatsoever! Either a light touch to keep up the RPM’s or it bogs down BAAAAAAAD!

I think I might snag that red one vs the little $6 rotary tool from HF that I have…just doesn’t “cut” it Big Smile

Oh and I thought I would just throw this in because Silly

bibihang
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JonnyC, I think putting bolts in there is not a great idea as they would make contact with the reflector, causing the reflector not being able to sit down lower.

From your last picture the light appears to be whitish, is that what it is or it is just the camera setting? Because a dedomed LED should have yellowish (neutral) tint.

JonnyC
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It's a lot warmer than it looks - that photo was just taken with my phone.

Actually, the bolts sit about as high as the solder connections, which I filed down.  Either way you need to take material off of the reflector to get it to sit down far enough.

RMM
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Those solder connections still look like they could be flattened out quite a bit.  Lately I've been using a hot iron, some flux, and a flat blade screw driver to get them extremely flat.  Take the iron and heat the fluxed joint until it's hot (silicone wire makes this MUCH easier!) then quickly follow up with your screwdriver to flatten it out.  With the flux and hot iron the wires will flatten out over the pad fairly easily.  You can then take a sharp blade and trim the insulation on the top of the wire (the silicone downside) so it is much thinner.  I generally trim it to the wire, or close to the wire, then use an insulating gasket.  Those bolt heads look like it would take a lot of extra clearance to get the reflector flat.  

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bibihang
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I have modded one Shocker and I got the solder joint down real flat and the reflector was able to sit in deep enough just as stock. I did not remove any material from the reflector.

By the way what gauge of wires did you use? I use 22AWG and they are thin enough to allow the reflector sit down more while still able to deliver 5.5A to each LED. The LED and reflector positioning part can be tricky, I cannot be assured that I will do this right for the second time though.

JonnyC
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I should have gone with 22 awg, but I used 20 awg silicone (which is a bit thicker).

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I admit I didn’t read all the replies, but I chose not to because I want to give my own opinion before I’m skewed by those who are probably more experienced/biased, but I as a flashlight guy who’s been doing this stuff for a few years have come to the realisation that the “wow” factor wears off very quickly when the limitations and cost and other caveats come into play.

I like lights that work every time, for a long time, and provide a long term impression of the thought and foresight that went into their creation.

A big bang followed by a big frustration is fun for those of us that are always learning. Not so fun for everyone else.

Hope that makes sense.

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