Led Driver test:: Nanjg 102, Nanjg 105c and East 060A driver.

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Bort
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HKJ wrote:

Bort wrote:
i thought of that too, if the same LED is used for all single LED drivers then it makes the tests a lot more comparable and we can discern slight anomalies in drivers when comparing different tests Smile

I was planning on using the XPG for all drivers with 1.5A or less in led current and the XML for anything up to 3A.



That is completely reasonable
I was thinking it would be a massive undertaking, but a chart of voltages for XP-G, XM-L and XM-L2, i have long suspected different tints have different forward voltages (and maybe different bins might as well for the same tint), however instead of testing doens of chips, how about a few common ones, an XP-G2 R5, XM-L T6 3C and U2 1A and U3 1C, and XM-L2 T6 4C and U2 1C

Links:
xp-g2
http://intl-outdoor.com/cree-xpg2-r5-3c-led-20mm-mcpcb-p-703.html
http://intl-outdoor.com/cree-xpg2-r5-2b-led-16mm-mcpcb-p-704.html

xm-l
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001906/1136804-cree-xm-l-t6-3c-...
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001903/1287502-cree-xm-l-u2-1a-...
http://intl-outdoor.com/cree-xml-u3-1c-led-16mm-mcpcb-p-593.html

xm-l2
http://intl-outdoor.com/cree-xml2-t6-4c-led-14mm-mcpcb-p-757.html
http://intl-outdoor.com/cree-xml2-u2-1c-led-12mm-mcpcb-p-743.html
http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-xm16-mcpcb-cree-xml2-u2-1c-led-p-746.html

i know this would be a different project, so its just an idea

HKJ wrote:
Bort wrote:
Can i also suggest the Qlite 3.04A driver to test, i assume it will give identical current shifted results to the 2.8A 105C but it would be nice to have confirmation

Please: shop and sku or a link.


http://intl-outdoor.com/qlite-reva-71358-multiple-modes-circuit-board-30...

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Bort wrote:
That is completely reasonable I was thinking it would be a massive undertaking, but a chart of voltages for XP-G, XM-L and XM-L2, i have long suspected different tints have different forward voltages (and maybe different bins might as well for the same tint), however instead of testing doens of chips, how about a few common ones, an XP-G2 R5, XM-L T6 3C and U2 1A and U3 1C, and XM-L2 T6 4C and U2 1C

...

i know this would be a different project, so its just an idea

No.

To get a good idea of Vf it is necessary to test a couple of leds of each type (It varies due to production tolerances).

I will not expect any Vf differences due to tint (That is variations in phosphor), but bins might have an impact on Vf.

 

Bort wrote:

http://intl-outdoor.com/qlite-reva-71358-multiple-modes-circuit-board-30...

I will put it on the list.

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Bort
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HKJ wrote:

Bort wrote:
That is completely reasonable I was thinking it would be a massive undertaking, but a chart of voltages for XP-G, XM-L and XM-L2, i have long suspected different tints have different forward voltages (and maybe different bins might as well for the same tint), however instead of testing doens of chips, how about a few common ones, an XP-G2 R5, XM-L T6 3C and U2 1A and U3 1C, and XM-L2 T6 4C and U2 1C

i know this would be a different project, so its just an idea

No.

To get a good idea of Vf it is necessary to test a couple of leds of each type (It varies due to production tolerances).

I will not expect any Vf differences due to tint (That is variations in phosphor), but bins might have an impact on Vf.


i had the same conversation a few hours ago with another forum member, there is even an off chance you get a high end of tolerance T6 and a lower end of tolerance U2, we would never know without several of each chip tested.
Perhaps a similar test, 3 to 5 XM-L2 U2 all the same tint just to see what the forward voltage is, or perhaps any chip of the same bin/tint that you may already have

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

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“The driver will reduce the current when it gets to hot (8 linear drivers on a small PCB do get hot very easily), as can be seen at 4 volt and above.”

Yes, this is why must to solder the driver to the pill. I always wonder when I see a driver mod like this:

unique engrish language... Smile

 

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Now I see

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Thank’s a lot for your effort, HKJ. This provides great information for choosing drivers, and for understanding them.

I’d like to see charts for the LD-2C which seems to be the successor to the LD-29, the latter is already on your list.
http://intl-outdoor.com/ld2c-3a-12-cell-circuit-board-p-732.html

It has similar specs, nice modes and is smaller. Most interesting: whereas the LD-29 seems to underperform in single cell mode (only 2,5-2,6A), this is not mentioned with the LD-2C. So there’s still hope…

If you could test both, LD-29 and LD-2C, in comparison and in both voltage-ranges, would be great.

I’d gladly provide you with my new, unused, untouched LD-2C from IOS that came the other day. PM me your address if you want to use it. I wanted to fiddle with it myself but your rig is much better and results are comparable that way. Or PM me your PP-address, I second the idea of Matjazz.

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Again, thanks for a good, informative report.
Strange that you have a 3.04A variant of the 105C. A variant that Fasttech should not have in stock (8×0.38A).

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Thank you HJK for doing all this work! Your results for the Nanjg 105C confuses me though, could anyone please help me understand what’s happening here?

I have read forum members here (Old Lumens springs to mind for one, when he was modding the 3 and 4 AA to “D” battery carriers) trying to use three AA Eneloops to achieve 2.8A at the LED and finding that they weren’t getting anywhere near 2.8A but, when they used four AA Eneloops, they hit the 2.8A easily, and it remained “regulated” at 2.8A for a reasonable time.

Their driver would have been seeing something roughly around the 4.8 volt mark from four Eneloops under full load, but your graph shows that by 4.5 volts the output has apparently dropped back down to 1A? Why do your results differ so greatly from their real world results? Is it really just due to the heat build-up of the driver you tested?

This exact driver is rated from 3 to 4.5 volts. I realise that 4.5 volts is not their ideal input voltage, and a lot of that will get burnt off as heat, but why would it be rated to 4.5 volts if it couldn’t produce the required current at that voltage?

Please understand I am not trying to devalue the work you have done here!!! I just can’t quite make sense of it all.

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HKJ, Did you get a sense for how fast the 7135’s overheat when not properly heat sinked?

I know it would depend on a lot of factors, but just wondering how fast current would drop in a worst case situation after light if flipped on with fully charged cells.

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benz, the sag at higher voltages is likely due to heat. The driver is floating in space with no thermal contact. In a flashlight, the driver ring is sitting on the pill and this conducts heat away from the chips. The thermal tabs (big Gnd pin) is right there on the edge which will make a huge difference in board temperature.

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With the drivers floating in the air there is very little cooling for such a small pcb, I believe that it overheated in maybe 30 seconds.

Mounted in a flashlight with prober contact to the aluminium, it will be much better.

This is one aspect that I cannot test properly. Even if I mounted a piece of aluminium on the driver, it would not be a prober test, because the actual cooling will depend on the actual flashlight and how it is mounted in it.

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I have ordered some drivers, see post #2.

It will probably be a month before I am ready to do the reviews.

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sixty545 wrote:
Again, thanks for a good, informative report. Strange that you have a 3.04A variant of the 105C. A variant that Fasttech should not have in stock (8x0.38A).

I did include the fasttech sku number, you can check with it.

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HKJ wrote:

sixty545 wrote:
Again, thanks for a good, informative report. Strange that you have a 3.04A variant of the 105C. A variant that Fasttech should not have in stock (8×0.38A).

I did include the fasttech sku number, you can check with it.

Yes, I know, but your 7135’s are marked 38P (380 mA) in your photo. Fasttecs photo shows 350 mA type, giving 2.8A as stated in the specs.

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sixty545 wrote:
Yes, I know, but your 7135's are marked 38P (380 mA) in your photo. Fasttecs photo shows 350 mA type, giving 2.8A as stated in the specs.

The photo (and test) is of the one I received from them (I do not have any other drivers laying around at the current time).

I do not know if 38P is for 380mA, datasheet says 340mA is marked with A.

 

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HKJ wrote:

sixty545 wrote:
Yes, I know, but your 7135’s are marked 38P (380 mA) in your photo. Fasttecs photo shows 350 mA type, giving 2.8A as stated in the specs.

The photo (and test) is of the one I received from them (I do not have any other drivers laying around at the current time).

I do not know if 38P is for 380mA, datasheet says 340mA is marked with A.

 


38P is 380 mA. That’s why you get around 3.0A in your measurements.
I wonder if all of their stock of that sku number is in fact 3.04A drivers. That would be an opportunity.
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sixty545 wrote:
38P is 380 mA. That's why you get around 3.0A in your measurements. I wonder if all of their stock of that sku number is in fact 3.04A drivers. That would be an opportunity.

They do not have an A printed on them, that could also mean 380mA or rather between 340 and 380mA.

I would have expected the 38P to be a datacode, i.e. week 38 in year P.

Do you have any documentation saying that 38P is the current?

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HKJ wrote:

sixty545 wrote:
38P is 380 mA. That’s why you get around 3.0A in your measurements. I wonder if all of their stock of that sku number is in fact 3.04A drivers. That would be an opportunity.

They do not have an A printed on them, that could also mean 380mA or rather between 340 and 380mA.

I would have expected the 38P to be a datacode, i.e. week 38 in year P.

Do you have any documentation saying that 38P is the current?

Don’t want to trust others experience without proof – eh?
To find specs you have to know the maker and find his specs sheets which I can’t.
But look at the V2 driver 3.04A at Kaidomain. You can’t see anything from the pictures but the 7135’s are marked “38K” the same way as yours “38P” (I have one in my hand right now). This is a common way to mark the bin and the letter is not relevant, but often a package code.
If you don’t trust me now that you have a 3.04A driver then it is your loss.

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sixty545 wrote:
Don't want to trust others experience without proof - eh?

I do tend to trust datasheets more than random Internet postings (I do not know your level of experience). But I can see the one on FastTechs website is marked 35F, this does kill my date guess.

sixty545 wrote:
If you don't trust me now that you have a 3.04A driver then it is your loss.

It is not really a loss for me, just some other numbers in my test. The "low" current version has the advantage that it runs slightly less hot, with many drivers close together it might allow it to run longer at full brightness.

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HKJ wrote:

sixty545 wrote:
Don’t want to trust others experience without proof – eh?

I do tend to trust datasheets more than random Internet postings (I do not know your level of experience). But I can see the one on FastTechs website is marked 35F, this does kill my date guess.

sixty545 wrote:
If you don’t trust me now that you have a 3.04A driver then it is your loss.

It is not really a loss for me, just some other numbers in my test. The “low” current version has the advantage that it runs slightly less hot, with many drivers close together it might allow it to run longer at full brightness.


I agree with HKJ, no one is saying your out to spread misinformation, but it does happen, there are many posts by people who did not understand something correctly and explained it to a new member with mistakes, or people who came up with wrong conclusions based on many factors, with no malicious intent or occasionally with intent.
When you have built a reputation as a respected member and a reliable source of information then people are more likely to take you at face value (there are many members who people trust for technical advice, including HKJ), but the adage trust but verify does also come in handy, and a datasheet is something that a company is using to drum up business so they are generally used as a source of verified information.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

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Bort wrote:
I agree with HKJ, no one is saying your out to spread misinformation

Correct, I have not rejected his specification, I would just like to see some documentation for it. In my first post about the AMC7135 I did link to the datasheet from ADD, where it specifies the A for low current version.

ADD might have changed the way they mark the chips (Datasheet is from 2006) or the 7135 might be from another manufacturer.

 

When I start to test all the drivers from intl-outdoor, I might be able to see what is correct (If some of the uses the low current driver).

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When I get started on testing these drivers, it would probably be a good idea with some sort of index or table of the tested ones.

I was thinking something like this:

NameTypeMin. input VMax. input VLedsLed currentMax. modesPWM
3 to 4.2 volt 800mAh driver (East 060A)Buck3.34.2111none
AA/AAA battery 550mA driver (Nanjg 102)Boost0.91.310.371none
3 to 4.5 volt 2800mAh driver (Nanjg 105c)Linear2.94.5135xxxHz

Types:
Buck: Driver uses an inductor to decrease the voltage, input current is less than output current.
Boost: Driver uses an inductor to increase the voltage, input current is larger than output current.
Linear: Driver uses a linear chip (like 7135) to reduce the voltage, input current is the same as output current*.
Direct: No current regulation (except resistance) is present, input current is the same as output current*.

All driver types can use pwm for brightness regulation, the first 3 can also use linear regulation.

*Except for current for the control circuit.

 

It is possible to copy the table to a spreadsheet and sort on different columns.
Any comments?

 

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Great info here, HKJ. Thanks for making the time to do it all! Smile

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You should be able to cut and paste it straight to Excel. Just tried your table and it worked on my computer.

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Great work, very interesting, thank you. Is there a way to monitor the driver temperature during testing? I would be interested to see what performance drop there would be due to high temps, also the performance gains when heatsinked well. Or maybe point out which drivers are more temperature sensitive than others.

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jonl wrote:
Is there a way to monitor the driver temperature during testing? I would be interested to see what performance drop there would be due to high temps, also the performance gains when heatsinked well. Or maybe point out which drivers are more temperature sensitive than others.

No, it would require the driver to be mounted on a heatsink.

I try to do the test rather fast, to avoid heating the driver. Looking at the efficiency you can estimate how many watts is lost in the driver.

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Now I am just waiting for the drivers to arrive, the led test modules are ready:

 

The wires and current test resistor adds about 11mOhm resistance, i.e. at 3A I will have an error of 0.033 volt. I expect there are more variations between leds than that.

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Drivers has arrived:

Any last minutes ideas, before I start testing?

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HKJ wrote:
Any last minutes ideas, before I start testing?

Yes, check if they have modes as advertised (number and order L->H or H->L)…
Thanks

 

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While testing modes, a quick test of the memory? Some say last mode memory and actually give us next mode, which most of us can’t stand!

Thanks for doing this, will be watching closely for the results!

Do you have a Q-Lite 3.04A? This is my preferred driver at the moment, quiet, dependable, love the default modes.

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