POLL: Your favorite Chinese knife?

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dinoboy
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POLL: Your favorite Chinese knife?
Ganzo knives
13% (21 votes)
Enlan knives
27% (43 votes)
Sanrenmu knives
23% (37 votes)
Tekut knives
4% (6 votes)
Bee knives
22% (36 votes)
Navy knives
3% (5 votes)
Inron knives
6% (9 votes)
Harnds knives
3% (5 votes)
Total votes: 162

Time to become part of the corruption game — k. ©2013

Edited by: dinoboy on 01/03/2014 - 17:36
dinoboy
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POLL5 is live.

Note:

this recycled thread can be reached by surfing to http://bit.ly/dreamcharger

alternatively, you can reach BLF polls by surfing to http://budgetlightforum.com/poll


Dear reader,

the (changing) poll questions refer to the **** dream charger (for round batteries) project and its parameters and specifications. If you have voted already in a previous poll, e.g. in POLL1, then you could cancel your old vote and re-submit your new selection with respect to the new poll question (POLL2). Otherwise, never mind since it cannot be expected that *everybody* from the preceding polls follows the suggested procedure and updates his/her selection with regard to the updated poll question. At the end of the day the questions (POLL1, POLL2, POLL3, ..) and their poll options are more of an incentive for discussion and for leaving your opinion on the current topic.

Please share your thoughts, thanks.

Cheers, dino.

 


POLL4: You Dream these days?

(POLL4 RESULT: Something better, e.g. dreamcharger.)

We surely are looking into universal chargers that is multi chemistry with both LiIon and NiMH support, aren't we? Well, Thrunit has come up with such a charger, Soshine probably has such a thing too, we all have the Nitcore and there are tons of i4 imitations, XTAR recently released several new models of interest, and let's not let hobby chargers out of sight. Do you know any other relevant universal charger? And don't even mention Efest ****! Silly

Oh, you're not happy with the above current selection of universal chargers, they are not what you've been really dreaming about, are they? Then don't be shy and vote for waiting for something else, a future dream charger to be released. That's what this entire thread is about.

Maybe you don't want to wait, maybe it's urgent and you're impatient, maybe you don't believe in the existence of such a thing as a dream charger, maybe you don't trust promises made by a green dino girl, etc., so you're buying one off the current market selection.

Well, i am tellin ya. Your bad! If you don't trust dino, then you should at least give the squirrel a chance Wink


POLL3: You Dream what else?

(POLL3 RESULT: charger should feature Capacity reading w/ discharge.)

Assuming that your charger is very fast, very accurate, otherwise flawless, well-built, not cheap, and long-lasting, then it has the most important basic qualities but is still far from being called a 'dream charger'. So the third question is the discussion and inclusion of a realistic set of fancy features which most other chargers don't have and which would make the product more advanced, innovative or special than the competition.

The poll options have been collected from the XTAR thread. Since the poll does not allow for multiple choices, feel free to vote for 1 single coolest feature or post what else you've been dreaming about. Just keep in mind that having more fancy features will also increase the production cost; in other words, if you wish to have so many fancy features, then you must also be willing to pay a premium for them.


POLL2: You Dream Charger most important basic quality?

(POLL2 RESULT: charger should be Very accurate.)

Second question to proceed with in the product design is the prioritization of the charger's essence. One needs an ordered list of essential basic key qualities which serves as strict guideline during the design process at the drawing board since sometimes certain compromises need to be accepted in favor of the more important properties. Sometimes all criteria cannot be fulfilled at the very same time.

Assuming that the dream charger is officially announced and on the ad paper the specs, looks and price are intriguing given that the product lives up to your, in this moment generated, expectations, then which 2 or 3 basic qualities are the very very most important to you, after having paid the asking price? Maybe you could even single out the most important character which your newly purchased product should feature.

To me, i don't care much about max charge rate or that it performs super-duper accurately like a FLUKE dmm. Warranty/Guarantee is imho nothing intrinsic to a product itself and sometimes even superseded by national regulations; Zebralight grants 1.0yr warranty and it does not deter folks from buying it at insane EUR-prices. So my personal top expectations are (in order of descending priority): 1. charger must be very very well-constructed and well-built with top quality components and parts, nothing cheap nor sub-standard (this will also ensure a long-lasting life, just without guaranteed warranty on paper!), 2. it should be a mature product from the initial release (hardware revision v1.0 RTM) with a long track record of testing, and thus operate absolutely flawlessly with no bugs, shortcomings, nor nothing, 3. since we call it a dream charger, it must have a set of special functions already, e.g. digital display with capacity measurement, etc. Beyond these special functions, any additional unexpected extra fancy functions are welcome as long as they don't compromise 1. and 2.


POLL1: You Dream Charger max current (per channel)?

(POLL1 RESULT: charger should have 2.0-3.0A max per channel.)

The Dino, the Girl and the Squirrel (2013)

First question to start a design with is the specification of the max current per channel. It's a key parameter afaik.

The new XTAR XP4 charger delivers a max of 4x1.0A and accepts 4x 26650 afaik. I am thinking that a universal charger which accepts up to 4x 26650 should have 2000mA per channel. That's 8.0A total. Is that realistic?

Please cast your vote so that XTAR's next release is nearer to our idea of a dream universal charger, thanks!

Time to become part of the corruption game — k. ©2013

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Rated to 3a, that way components will be oversized and understressed most of the time. 2a per channel minimum if it accepts 26650 but 3a deffo better.

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Why does the XP4 look so Jetbeamy?

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dinoboy wrote:

why doesn’t the XP4 have 3 status LED’s like the jetbeamy and nitecory?

Maybe the single LED changes colour depending on status?

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40 amps per channel or 70 amps slaved together… can charge 20 lithium cells at one time.

http://www.progressiverc.com/icharger-4010duo.html

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dinoboy wrote:

Jeansy wrote:
Rated to 3a, that way components will be oversized and understressed most of the time. 2a per channel minimum if it accepts 26650 but 3a deffo better.

that’s a very good answer from a user’s point of view, thanks.

looks like XTAR’s XP4 is a misgeburt from the very beginning!

Dream charger also needs to be the usual 12vdc (off-grid use), fed from a wall wart. 4chs at 4v and 3a = 48w wall wart, that’s pretty big, double what I’ve seen on most budget chinese chargers.

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dinoboy wrote:

How many colors?

the nitecory can distinguish 4 different states, here the li-ion states:

Quote:
I was wondering at which voltage the LED’s blink, on my latest i4 II sample with no serial number (fake?) the stats are:
Intellicore i4 v2 (fake?)
full LED’sblinkingvoltage minvoltage max
012.750V3.596V
113.596V4.143V
214.143V4.20V
304.207V4.217V

nyoj

Hmm, four colours, flash or no flash. Strobing all colours = fully charged!

An OLED display wouldn’t be too expensive and could show lots of detailed info.

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3 steps
200-300mA for 16350 (500-800mA)
700-800mA for 18650 (2200-3400mA)
1500-2000mA for 26650 (3500-4500mA)

4 steps
250mA
750mA
1500mA
2000mA

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dinoboy wrote:

Chloe wrote:
An OLED display wouldn’t be too expensive and could show lots of detailed info.

Close, but I was thinking more like this.

Milan
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How about 0.1A or 50mA?
Once you buy hobby charger you are not limited by amps.
Problem with normal chargers is that I can’t use them for small batteries because of high current.

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Milan wrote:
How about 0.1A or 50mA? Once you buy hobby charger you are not limited by amps. Problem with normal chargers is that I can't use them for small batteries because of high current.

 

+1

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dinoboy wrote:

Chloe wrote:
Close, but I was thinking more like this.

i see. like this.

Silly

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I’m surprised 1.5a seems quite common on a 26650 or even 32650 charger. Votes seem to dictate at least 26650.

I haven’t read up on Li-ion charging but is it similar to some other chemistries in that a middle current can be a bad choice as termination is hard to identify for the charger and thus overcharge is very possible?

A really low that is safe long term works I guess but at levels that low you are looking at 12hr+ charging time (and who wants to sleep with the charger on!)

A relatively high charge rate that the manufactures say a cell will safely accept is best to aid termination and keep times realistic.
.

Edit;

Infact DigiKey specify a 1c charge rate, so a 26650 ideally around 4A!

Quote:
If the battery is deeply discharged (for example, to below 3 V) a small “pre-conditioning” charge – around 10 percent of the full charge current – is applied to stop the cell overheating until it is able to accept the full current of the constant current phase. During the constant current phase, the battery is charged at 1 C or less, (where 1 C equals the maximum current the battery can supply for one hour; for example, for a 2 Ah battery, C = 2 A). The constant current phase continues until the battery voltage reaches 4.1 V.

Source: http://www.digikey.com/us/en/techzone/power/resources/articles/a-designe...
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I'm with Texaspyro, none of the choices have high enough numbers

kreisler
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i am not the only one who masters the art of stealth deletion, thanks ezarc Silly

 

i haven't voted yet. still undecided. i think the hardcore charging people incl HKJ prefer 3.0A?

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kreisler wrote:
i haven't voted yet. still undecided. i think the hardcore charging people incl HKJ prefer 3.0A?

No, 2A for a slot is enough. With 18650 I nearly always uses 1A. With 26650 the 2A current is fine for standard charge, many of the 26650 batteries could accept 3A or 4A for a quick charger (i.e. with slight damage to the battery), but I have not seen a need for that.

Making higher charge current in a charger will also make it more expensive, especially if you need PFC correction (Required at higher power levels).

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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HKJ wrote:
, especially if you need PFC correction (Required at higher power levels)

Are you required to have PFC over a certain power in Denmark? I’d be surprised if even a 4a, 4 channel charger required one. Would be nice tho.

I agree 2a is enough but more would be nice, who knows what’s around the corner and the ability to rapid charge if really needed would be nice.

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Jeansy wrote:
HKJ wrote:
, especially if you need PFC correction (Required at higher power levels)
Are you required to have PFC over a certain power in Denmark? I'd be surprised if even a 4a, 4 channel charger required one. Would be nice tho.

Yes, it is above a certain power level, the rules are common for EU.

I do not know exactly at what power, probably somewhere between 60 watt and 100 watt. A 4A 4 channel charger might be around the limit.

 

Jeansy wrote:
I agree 2a is enough but more would be nice, who knows what's around the corner and the ability to rapid charge if really needed would be nice.

What is around the corner, might required other voltages. I prefer to charge at safe current levels and then more batteries at the time.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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Jeansy wrote:
I agree 2a is enough but more would be nice, who knows what’s around the corner and the ability to rapid charge if really needed would be nice.

That’s how I thought about it too, plus I know the 2A ~ .5C is better for the battery but 3A is under 1C and should be able to accept that charge …shouldnt really damage a 4200mAh 26650 battery until 4.3A should it?

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B42 wrote:
I know the 2A ~ .5C is better for the battery but 3A is under 1C and should be able to accept that charge ...shouldnt really damage a 4200mAh 26650 battery until 4.3A should it?

That depends on the actual battery, then 1C charge rate is rule of thumb, not a specification or a law.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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B42 wrote:
Jeansy wrote:
I agree 2a is enough but more would be nice, who knows what’s around the corner and the ability to rapid charge if really needed would be nice.

That’s how I thought about it too, plus I know the 2A ~ .5C is better for the battery but 3A is under 1C and should be able to accept that charge …shouldnt really damage a 4200mAh 26650 battery until 4.3A should it?

IMO, damage at 1c will be minimal, it would be interesting to see cycles compared between 0.5 & 1c.
Above this damage will get progressively worse, ie on the 4200mAh, 4.3 amps would be so close to 1c I doubt a difference would be noticed

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HKJ wrote:

B42 wrote:
I know the 2A ~ .5C is better for the battery but 3A is under 1C and should be able to accept that charge …shouldnt really damage a 4200mAh 26650 battery until 4.3A should it?

That depends on the actual battery, then 1C charge rate is rule of thumb, not a specification or a law.

Right, I figured it was somewhat standard for the chemistry and based on that? But I guess there is no telling with the Chinese cells what is inside as to chemical composition and how they really stand up unless you tried it.

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B42 wrote:
HKJ wrote:

That depends on the actual battery, then 1C charge rate is rule of thumb, not a specification or a law.

Right, I figured it was somewhat standard for the chemistry and based on that? But I guess there is no telling with the Chinese cells what is inside as to chemical composition and how they really stand up unless you tried it.

Not only Chinese cells, the Panasonic 2900 and 3100mAh cells are 0.3C charge current. The new 3400mAh cell has been upgraded to 0.5C.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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HKJ wrote:
No, 2A for a slot is enough. With 18650 I nearly always uses 1A. With 26650 the 2A current is fine for standard charge, many of the 26650 batteries could accept 3A or 4A for a quick charger (i.e. with slight damage to the battery), but I have not seen a need for that.

Making higher charge current in a charger will also make it more expensive, especially if you need PFC correction (Required at higher power levels).

Thanks HKJ for your valuable input, your technical view is as always highly appreciated.

Since you like the 2A, i have voted for 2.0A now too!

Silly

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HKJ wrote:
Making higher charge current in a charger will also make it more expensive, especially if you need PFC correction (Required at higher power levels).

PFC = installing more capacitors? If so I can see how it would cost more.

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Chloe wrote:
"PFC":http://www.energy-in-motion.com/PFC.html = installing more capacitors? If so I can see how it would cost more.

That is not enough today, a full compensation requires an activate circuit that will regulate the current draw.

 

Here is some more explanation (It is technical): http://www.fairchildsemi.com/an/AN/AN-42047.pdf

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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HKJ wrote:
That is not enough today, a full compensation requires an activate circuit that will regulate the current draw.

my PC power supply, engineered in Gemany, has it.

active PFC:

 

kreisl wins Silly

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kreisler wrote:

HKJ wrote:
That is not enough today, a full compensation requires an activate circuit that will regulate the current draw.

my PC power supply, engineered in Gemany, has it.

It would be illegal in the entire EU, if the PFC was missing or you would have a very low power PC.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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HKJ wrote:
It would be illegal in the entire EU, if the PFC was missing or you would have a very low power PC.

So what would you think about an integrated power supply (no power adapter!) in a dream charger with 4×3.0A output, say ~50-60Watts. Should it have active PFC too? Smile

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kreisler wrote:

HKJ wrote:
It would be illegal in the entire EU, if the PFC was missing or you would have a very low power PC.

So what would you think about an integrated power supply (no power adapter!) in a dream charger with 4×3.0A output, say ~50-60Watts. Should it have active PFC too? :)

As I wrote above, I do not know exactly where the limit is today.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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