26650 battery help needed for 15x

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18sixfifty
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26650 battery help needed for 15x

Does anyone have suggestions for a protected 26650’s for a 15x that has been souped up. It works great with king kong unprotected but I need something protected that has higher drain than a trustfire protected because it’s popping the protection on them. This is a light that takes 4 batteries and I suspect it’s direct drive on high. It’s wired with three of the emitters to the positive wire in series and then four more emitters to each of them. So four batteries per five emitters. I wired it with 20 gauge wire. I sold it, but the guy needs advice on which batteries to buy and he doesn’t want to run unprotected batteries in it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

RaceR86
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KK 4000 protected from CNQ might be a good option. Never seen a test on them. But expect performance like KK, but generally 0,1V lower voltage due to protection circuit. Battery length might be an issue?

There is also the Soshine 26650, but they are probably not as happy with high current+ as the KK. Id guess they are out due to that. They were testet here. They are very long too! In that same thread some IMR cells were mentioned. Those might be an even better option than the protected KK for your light (but then there is obviously lower capacity).

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18sixfifty
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RaceR86 wrote:

KK 4000 protected from CNQ might be a good option. Never seen a test on them. But expect performance like KK, but generally 0,1V lower voltage due to protection circuit. Battery length might be an issue?

There is also the Soshine 26650, but they are probably not as happy with high current+ as the KK. Id guess they are out due to that. They were testet here. They are very long too! In that same thread some IMR cells were mentioned. Those might be an even better option than the protected KK for your light (but then there is obviously lower capacity).

Thanks I’ll check that out.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

ImA4Wheelr
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I'm not a battery guy, but it sounds like you need IMR's.  They don't come with protection, but are supposed to be safer as long as one follows the normal safety conventions.  Less capacity is probably why you sound like you are avoiding them though.

18sixfifty
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

I’m not a battery guy, but it sounds like you need IMR’s.  They don’t come with protection, but are supposed to be safer as long as one follows the normal safety conventions.  Less capacity is probably why you sound like you are avoiding them though.

I think he just wants as many options as possible. I agree that IMR’s are probably the best bet. Although I think the protected king kongs would work to. But I don’t know if I would take the chance when the IMR’s will work for sure and they have a lot of capacity when there is four of them.

Any suggestions on where to buy the IMR’s?

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

B42
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RaceR86 wrote:

KK 4000 protected from CNQ might be a good option. Never seen a test on them. But expect performance like KK, but generally 0,1V lower voltage due to protection circuit. Battery length might be an issue?

There is also the Soshine 26650, but they are probably not as happy with high current+ as the KK. Id guess they are out due to that. They were testet here. They are very long too! In that same thread some IMR cells were mentioned. Those might be an even better option than the protected KK for your light (but then there is obviously lower capacity).

Those KKs say 2-5A discharge? Can’t be right for KKs can it?

Also, INR, not IMR is the safer high discharge afaik. True?

18sixfifty
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B42 wrote:
RaceR86 wrote:

KK 4000 protected from CNQ might be a good option. Never seen a test on them. But expect performance like KK, but generally 0,1V lower voltage due to protection circuit. Battery length might be an issue?

There is also the Soshine 26650, but they are probably not as happy with high current+ as the KK. Id guess they are out due to that. They were testet here. They are very long too! In that same thread some IMR cells were mentioned. Those might be an even better option than the protected KK for your light (but then there is obviously lower capacity).

Those KKs say 2-5A discharge? Can’t be right for KKs can it?

Also, INR, not IMR is the safer high discharge afaik. True?

I don’t know for sure but according to the batterywiki site IMR is Safer than INR but INR is still supposed to be safe chemistry and won’t runaway and discharge from use but can if punctured, incinerated etc.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

blueb8llz
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i use kk 4000 inr’s because i was told they are safer.

but i would tell the guy to just purchase these MNKE’s instead, they are hard to come by and they sell out quick
http://edcplus.com/mnke-imr26650-3700mah-p-5.html
i bought my mnke’s here and they are the real deal.

18sixfifty
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blueb8llz wrote:
i use kk 4000 inr’s because i was told they are safer.

but i would tell the guy to just purchase these MNKE’s instead, they are hard to come by and they sell out quick
http://edcplus.com/mnke-imr26650-3700mah-p-5.html
i bought my mnke’s here and they are the real deal.

Thanks.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

gords1001
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enerpower cells would do it but with the shipping they’d cost almost as much as the light.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=26115600...

18sixfifty
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gords1001 wrote:
enerpower cells would do it but with the shipping they’d cost almost as much as the light.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=26115600...

Wow they must use gold instead of Cobalt or Nickel. Are they IGR’s Wink

They do look they they would do the trick though.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

B42
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gords1001 wrote:
enerpower cells would do it but with the shipping they’d cost almost as much as the light.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=26115600...

Wow, is it my imagination, or have Enerpower cells gone up in price? I was looking at them a while back and we had almost a possible group buy but they couldnt lower the price much. Another problem with them Werner brought up back then was the 8A discharge rate, they could not go higher as I remember, and with 15× 2A thats OK, but 15× 2.2A+ and it’ll pop protection…

gords1001
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is the light 15 emitters in parallel though? it reads to me that the emitters are wired series/parallel, I think they have gone up in price, I’d have to check on uk ebay because I know they were £33/pair plus shipping.

I also seem to remember the cells would do more than 8a but that’s where the protection tripped, its still, as far as I’m aware the highest limited protection circuit, what I’m saying is, if they wont do it, you might have to rule out protection circuits.

I also dont think I could get them shipped here then ship them across to you for less unfortunately.

I do know I want some, but almost a hundred quid for six is a bit much for me lol

gords1001
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just checked, their £36/pair on uk ebay or best offer with free shipping, I might have to put a bid in once I’ve sorted my PayPal out, its not verified yet and I’ve hit this years limit lol

B42
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gords1001 wrote:
is the light 15 emitters in parallel though? it reads to me that the emitters are wired series/parallel, I think they have gone up in price, I’d have to check on uk ebay because I know they were £33/pair plus shipping.

I also seem to remember the cells would do more than 8a but that’s where the protection tripped, its still, as far as I’m aware the highest limited protection circuit, what I’m saying is, if they wont do it, you might have to rule out protection circuits.

I also dont think I could get them shipped here then ship them across to you for less unfortunately.

I do know I want some, but almost a hundred quid for six is a bit much for me lol

Yeah thats exactly what stopped me last time…very steep.

I think it was said above its actually 3 sets of 5 wiring. HJK’s test showed 6.5A in the 3400 panasonic cells that were tripped, so we know its at least drawing over 26A. I’m questioning the wiring setup though, if its say just 27A that it will draw, thats 9A to each set of 5?

gords1001
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i think I’m being thick……

three groups of five parallel wired emitters in series.

does that not mean we “just” need the cells and driver to supply 15a to the circuit? assuming we’re aiming for 3a/emitter? or am I not understanding?

Werner
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There are no real good possibilities, i know you dont want to hear it but it is like it is. These lights never have undervoltage protection. here is the devils circle: You need high maximum current because otherwise you would carry unused mass=> buy good batteries for high current=>they are empty fast=>need undervoltage protection=>there are no good batteries with good protection=>leads to lower current=>carry 2 kilos for a 3000lumen light I am away from 26650 in series lights because of this fact, the new multiemmiter light from kaidomain looks promising with 3p2s configuration. back to topic The enerdan groubuy price was 22Euro, so i would say the ebay link is similiar...maybe a bit more expensive with shipping and so on.... It looks like the circuit can handle more current but they don`t guarantee it. You have the 4s light so with 8A you get 110W, I would call this acceptable. I guess in reallife you get less current as the drivers are dissapointing. So go for the enerdan cells... I have not understand how the leds are wired.

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18sixfifty
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There are three emitters that are wired in series. So it goes + + + and then off of the three negatives four more emitters are wired in series. So what is that 3S5P? I got a large jump in lumens when I wired it with 20 gauge wire and put the copper on the spring. I am guessing that it’s direct drive but I don’t know if it’s true or not because it does work with two batteries it’s just not bright that way. I never tried it with protected batteries. I just didn’t think of it. It didn’t seem to be making any of the batteries that I used overheat and I have had that happen before when I was really pushing the amps through them.

Let’s say for the sake of argument that it’s 3S5P direct drive with 4 cells. How many amps would that be? I have NO idea how to figure something like that out.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

B42
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gords1001 wrote:
i think I’m being thick……

three groups of five parallel wired emitters in series.

does that not mean we “just” need the cells and driver to supply 15a to the circuit? assuming we’re aiming for 3a/emitter? or am I not understanding?

No you aren’t, that’s exactly what I’m saying: how could it pop protection in 4×26650s with 5A discharge and 4×18650s with 6.5A discharge in that configuration…I’m thinking it has to be parallel…

Werner
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That would give you a lot of amps, super duper lot of amps…

Has it pwm in high?

I have the 9xT6 which is direct drive with 3 batteries and 3s3p LEDS , but on high it has still PWM. This beast pulls 9-10A, the battery voltage goes down a lot so it sinks a lot fast.

If the LEDs are 3s5p, than every group gets 1/5 of the current through the batteries, so 10A*1/5=2A.
And every LED gets 1and1/3 of the voltage, so it is like a single XML on direct drive with 1.33 batteries…so it will see a lot current.

gords1001
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as werner points out, if it were 15 in parallel you’d need what? 45a? I just dont see that, as 18sixfifty says, its definitely series/parallel, but if its direct drive on high, it’ll pull much more than 3a/emitter string. This is starting to give me a headache, I’m going to end up going getting a note pad and pen to doodle on if I carry on.

I am thinking now that it probably is direct drive on high and that’s why it had crap weak assed wiring to start with, it naturally limited the current to an acceptable level, rather than build a boost driver that could go 16v in 45v out lol

hell, even asking for a 15a buck driver is pushing whats available, never mind the poor 1.5a omten clicky at the dark end, I guess we are at the limit of whats feasible in a portable aluminium tube at this point.

18sixfifty
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gords1001 wrote:
as werner points out, if it were 15 in parallel you’d need what? 45a? I just dont see that, as 18sixfifty says, its definitely series/parallel, but if its direct drive on high, it’ll pull much more than 3a/emitter string. This is starting to give me a headache, I’m going to end up going getting a note pad and pen to doodle on if I carry on.

I am thinking now that it probably is direct drive on high and that’s why it had crap weak assed wiring to start with, it naturally limited the current to an acceptable level, rather than build a boost driver that could go 16v in 45v out lol

hell, even asking for a 15a buck driver is pushing whats available, never mind the poor 1.5a omten clicky at the dark end, I guess we are at the limit of whats feasible in a portable aluminium tube at this point.

When I first re-wired it and popped in on high with the king kongs in it, I turned it right back off thinking I was going to fry the emitters. But I did it again and left it on and it was great. I took it for a few walks and it’s a beast. That was with 4 ICR’s they didn’t get hot either. The light did but only if I left it on high for a long time. On medium it’s still a ton of light and really ran nice. I did notice at the end of one long walk that it didn’t seem as bright as when I left. That also made me think it was direct drive.

Oh and it runs on two cells about half as bright if that of what it does with four.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

Werner
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So i just played a bit with my multiemmitter light(3S3P XML just a fet as a driver with pwm on high) and it lights up a bit on 2 cells as well but very dim some hundred lumen maybe.
Of course I have tested it with 4 cells…it was on moderate 7.8A tailcap as I added a xtar 18650…multimeter showed short 11A light was insanely bright…zero. All is fine just the protection of the xtar kicked in…

So if it is direct drive and 3s5p than it will suck a lot of current, and I truely belief that reducing resistance helped a lot as with 10A a resistance of 0.1ohm steals a whole volt… and of course it should be bright like the sun.

Enerdan sells the raw 26650 for 8.5euro
good price.
and 19.30euro(about24.5$) for the protected
int shipping FedEx WorldWide Standard (2-10 Working days) for 16,90€(21.60$)

Gtamazing
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What about the Keeppower 26650 from doingoutdoor. The info says the protection trip is good for 15.1A

Werner
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Nice find, it definitely looks acceptable on the first look but


HKJ test
 

10A discharge curve is not so promising…more like crap…so here we are there is no protected cell which handles 10A and more without having bad points. That’s because high drain cells have no protection, what makes sense for most cases but not in multiemitter lights with series cells(is it called series or serial?)

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Wow,the keeppowers really shit the bed at 10A. I never payed any attention to the 10A curve, I bought them for a 1.2A discharge light.

Is it possible to add your own protection circuit to a cell like the MNKE

B42
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Gtamazing wrote:
Wow,the keeppowers really shit the bed at 10A. I never payed any attention to the 10A curve, I bought them for a 1.2A discharge light.

Is it possible to add your own protection circuit to a cell like the MNKE

Almost Enerpower prices for poor performance. I’d say that so far, Enerpower and adding a circuit if at all possible are the best bets so far for protection in 26650 8A+ output.

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18sixfifty wrote:
Does anyone have suggestions for a protected 26650’s for a 15x .

what? you have one 15 xm-l flashlight?

pictures of inside please, the heat transmission is good? how many mm of thickness of aluminum under the leds?

I think no way to run the 15 leds at max power with 2 or 3 protected batteries, the protection circuit don’t will resist the current

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Elektrolumens’ Moli cells?

BLF ≠ B-grade Flashlight Forum

 

gords1001
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the molicells are unprotected.

bdiddle
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Powerizer 26650 cells, cause protection is over rated Silly

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