eBay adjustable CC/CV module for 4.3v cell charging?

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Ramblings
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Looks like this is going to be added to my collection.

Seems like the most appropriate method for a good 4.3V charger.
Not sure if I should get two, another being for 4.35V. 

Powered via re-purposed computer PSU.
Not sure what I'm going to use for battery host yet. 

Thanks for the research boys.

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People do not light a lamp and then hide it away, instead they put it where it gives lig

garrybunk
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Ramblings wrote:
Not sure what I'm going to use for battery host yet.

In post #20 above - Here's the single bay one I was looking at for a "host".  (US Plug version)  May not be enough room for this board though.

-Garry

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If you're planning to hide the board away inside the ex-charger case, I have to warn you these are not set-and-forget type devices, you'll want to check and adjust at least the voltage each time you use it. The current setting seems to stay reasonably on target but the voltage adjustment is awful touchy.

And there's no problem with charging multiple cells at a time, given they're the same make/model and their starting voltages are within a range of .04-.06v.

 

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Well that stinks!

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Overclocker
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that doesn’t seem to be a true cc/cv charger. i.e. should STOP charging once the current drops to around 10% of initial current. so if you leave that overnight it will trickle charge which actually hurts the cell

comfychair
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If the cell is fully charged and at 4.30v on its own, and the board's output is set to 4.30v, how is it going to do anything to the cell but just sit there with no current flowing either direction? It will just hold it at 4.30v.

Of course, if you set it to a higher voltage to increase the charge current/shorten the charging time then it would try to keep the 4.30v cell at 4.32 or whatever, which I agree, would be not good for it.

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comfychair wrote:

If the cell is fully charged and at 4.30v on its own, and the board’s output is set to 4.30v, how is it going to do anything to the cell but just sit there with no current flowing either direction? It will just hold it at 4.30v.

Of course, if you set it to a higher voltage to increase the charge current/shorten the charging time then it would try to keep the 4.30v cell at 4.32 or whatever, which I agree, would be not good for it.

hi i’m not sure if you fully understand how lithium ion charging should be done. it’s not just a simple cc/cv. the charge controllers also SHUT DOWN the current once the current drops to a certain threshold in the CV phase. typically 10% of the CC value

ever noticed how the current gets smaller and smaller as you approach the 4.30v mark? the problem is right there: the current (albeit small) keeps flowing for a long long time. that’s why a proper charge controller cuts off before that happens e.g. if CC is 500ma then once the current drops below 50ma then charging is terminated

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Yes, and a charger that does the CV phase correctly also outputs a voltage higher than the cell's fully charged voltage, otherwise the current is so small it takes forever. See HKJ's charger review graphs. A charger that outputs .05v higher than the cell's final voltage MUST shut off when current drops below 10%, otherwise the cell would be overcharged if not removed. If the charger's voltage is equal to the cell's voltage when fully charged the charger IS essentially 'shut off'.

If you can live with the longer than normal charge times due to setting charger voltage no higher than cell final voltage, then it's a cheap option for a 4.30/4.35v charger, and is probably better than a cheap pre-built charger for those same higher voltage cells. Many of them are junk, too. But at least this one is adjustable, the limitations can be worked around.

I have been using a different board for charging anyway, one of the 10A buck regulators. It has to be done manually, not a problem as I can have it right beside me and monitor the DVOM. With the cells at 4.20v off the hobby charger I move them to the DIY setup to finish. Doing 4 at a time in parallel I set the initial current limit to 2A (starting from 4.20v, on their own they won't take that much current anyway with the voltage limited to 4.32v, 4 in parallel will draw a little over 1A) and voltage to 4.31-4.32. As the cells get full the voltage will blip up to 4.33, I then turn it back down to 4.31-4.32 and keep doing that until the voltage stops rising above the set point. When finished they settle in right dead on at 4.30v.

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I asked HKJ about the termination current:

HKJ wrote:

Werner wrote:
What happens if the cells are charged with less termination current? I have seen you always charge them until 0.1A…

Lower termination current will charger the cells more.

I have been testing it: http://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryChargeVoltageCurrent%20UK.html

I am also not sure if it harms the cell in any way, I have a pair of the LG 3000mAh cells which can be charged to 4.35V and I have charged them only 5 times with a normal charger to 4.2 and then used a bench power supply with voltage adjusted to 4.35V and current regulation set to 1A so it is a CC/CV charger.
I unplugged them after hours the current displayed was small(i dont trust the power supply display to say how many mA were still flowing) …. after resting they show 4.3V

I also thought about using smaller constant voltage as a work around, but i guess some tolerances are okay so i dont care.

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Finally got my board thrown together. I am using a 12 volt switching power supply that I had sitting in the closet, with magnet leads on the battery. Using Chinese banana plugs for the connections (I already had a bunch). I had an E09 tin sitting around that I wasn’t going to use for anything else that I decided would be a good candidate for a case.

Is it a flashlight?

Nope! Charger Smile . I used some Fujik under the chip to secure it to the tin. It seems to be transferring some heat because the tin gets warm around the board. I put a little Kapton tape over the exposed metal on the board, just in case.

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

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Looks nice RMM!

-Garry

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Ramblings
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comfychair wrote:

the pads on top and bottom are not connected!

I soldered mine only on top and it works fine. I tested for continuity and they're the same node.

Also, in other news.

The charge indicator light is really quite simple and is absolutely no measure of voltage.
It states pretty specifically that the default is to switch off the LED after the current drops below to a multiple of the CC value.
I set mine to 0.01 of the CC value (I set my CC value to 1.499A - because I couldn't get exactly 1.5A) 
My CV is set to 4.35V and my UR18650ZTAs as-is from FT settle above 4.34V. 

Here is a pic of mine.
I power it using my modded PSU for my hobby charger.
I use XT-60s for connections and the battery holder is about to get replaced with a gutted charger with a slide that can fit protecteds and 26650s.

 

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This is one that's buck and BOOST.

Link here.


This may or may not be helpful to people.

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My module came today with Swiss post.
Sadly I have just build something different with my battery holder…

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Thanks for share this info, I have one of this circuits…

Zebralight Spark Princeton Inova Petzl Maglite Bushnell a lot of Cree XM-L Lights 18650's Intl-outdoor 3400 Panasonic 3100 Hobby Charger

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I like these cradles, I can solder everywhere so resistance is no issue. Just glued the circuit with a bit of hot glue on top.
The voltage pot seems indeed a bit touchy, or maybe my multimeter isn’t good enough for measuring hundredth of volt.

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I accidentally connected a flat-top battery the wrong way because it was too dark and I was careless.

Lots of smoke and bad smells ensued. I saved the battery (only dropped down to 3.64V from 3.98V) and the next day I tested that the internal resistance was barely a few mOhms higher than the rest, so I charged it back up and it was fine.

But I've bought meself a slightly different one with voltmeter and ammeter built in. I bought two.

Also, to safeguard against my stupidity, I bought a toggle switch and a circuit breaker.

I figured that a battery protection PCB wouldn't work properly if the battery itself polarity was reversed. Looked into some diodes, including shottkies and non-synchronous rectifying circuits, but they all were designed for the battery to be the only source and the protection only hand in mind the power coming from the battery.

So only circuit would be set at 4.29V, the other at 4.19V, the toggle switch would be on the input side of the charging circuit, and the circuit breaker on the battery side of the charger. Pics when done.

You are the light of the world. Like a city on a hill, you cannot be hidden.
People do not light a lamp and then hide it away, instead they put it where it gives lig

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Ramblings. What are the white connectors on the ends of the displays?

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

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Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

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I actually have no idea.

I can't take a picture of mine, because I fried the first one, but when it was functional, all I did was connect the in and out using the screw junctions and everything worked fine.

I'll get out my multimeter and check when I get the next one. 

You are the light of the world. Like a city on a hill, you cannot be hidden.
People do not light a lamp and then hide it away, instead they put it where it gives lig

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comfychair wrote:

I found a listing for the same board from another seller with a slightly more clear description, and a nice labeled photo:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300853743826

http://75.65.123.78/LM2596S_p04.png

Battery use:

    Make sure of the voltage and current of the battery you need to charge
    Adjust the constant voltage potentiometer to make the output voltage same to the charge voltage
    Potentiometer Adjustment Direction: Clockwise (increase), counterclockwise (decrease)
    Use the multimeter in 10A current scale to measure output short-circuit current, and adjust the current potentiometer to make sure the output current to the expected charging current value
    The charge current of transfer lamp is default 0.1 times of the charging current (constant current value)
    Connected to the battery and try to charging (for previous 5 steps, module input terminal is connected to power source, output load is NOT connected to batteries)


oh wow…nice find!

Thanks

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Came across these…built in displays for input and output voltages w/ ammeter 5A
(a little more pricey than the ones without the display)
2PCS – $15.96

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400691989349

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WarHawk-AVG wrote:
Came across these…built in displays for input and output voltages w/ ammeter 5A
(a little more pricey than the ones without the display)
2PCS – $15.96

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400691989349

I Use these for my pink LG,s works very well I quick charge with my hobby charger first then finish with this little module.I parallel 4 batts at a time .

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I wonder what the serial interface is…in the picture with the laptopbattery it is connected…?
Has anyone more information?

Single piece for 8$ http://www.ebay.com/itm/5A-Adjustable-CC-CV-Display-Step-Down-charge-Mod...LED-Panel-Voltmeter-Ammeter-/400544557141?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d4250e855&tfrom=400691989349&tpos=unknow&ttype=price&talgo=origal

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gauss163 wrote:
Those two wires are the SMBus clock and data lines, which is how a Smart Battery Charger communicates with a Smart Battery. e.g. a laptop charging its battery. For an introduction see the Battery University article Inner Workings of a Smart Battery

I’ve been meaning to test if that module supports Smart Battery charging. If anyone else beats me to it please do report here. If it does, it would make for a very cheap universal laptop battery charger (they normally cost at least $60 USD or so on eBay). Such universal chargers are handy if one repurposes laptop batteries for other applications (without tearing them down to harvest the cells).

Do you happen to repurpose packs in that way? I wonder how best to interface with the blade connector.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
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gauss163 wrote:
Yes, I do use laptop battery packs as universal power supplies. For more info see "this prior post.":http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?374514-How-to-charge-... Good link, thanks. I'll wade a bit deeper into that thread soon!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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Maybe you guys could request a “free sample” charging board from Texas Instruments

4.3vdc Li Ion Charge Controller chip

http://www.ti.com/product/BQ24018/description

eas
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gauss163 wrote:
Those two wires are the SMBus clock and data lines, which is how a Smart Battery Charger communicates with a Smart Battery. e.g. a laptop charging its battery. For an introduction see the Battery University article Inner Workings of a Smart Battery

I’ve been meaning to test if that module supports Smart Battery charging. If anyone else beats me to it please do report here. If it does, it would make for a very cheap universal laptop battery charger (they normally cost at least $60 USD or so on eBay). Such universal chargers are handy if one repurposes laptop batteries for other applications (without tearing them down to harvest the cells).

I don’t think those are SMBus. As you say, SMBus, which is based on I2C and can support multiple devices, uses one line for clock (SC), the other for data (SA). The lines on that PSU are labelled RXD & TXD, which looks more like a traditional bi-directional serial port.

Has anyone explored that power supply further? I think someone on Youtube mentioned that they couldn’t get anything interesting to happen with that connector.

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I have one of those 10 A buck converters and that was my plan b for my project if i failed to pas 1 million cd with 4.2 volt. i was going to use 2×18650 in series and get whatever desired current to the led with using it. it looks a very decent driver this only that have to be careful with output range you set up otherwise i broke one xml t6 very easy with only 5v input. but i succeed in my project so i have this driver waiting for something else now Smile

some of my actual experiments and reviews:
UF-T20 review and mod —->http://budgetlightforum.com/node/30186#node-30186
My EBRZM, over 1 million cd thrower—-> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/30274#node-30274
Ervin’s try (2nd. Annual BLF Scratch Made L

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Overclocker wrote:
comfychair wrote:

If the cell is fully charged and at 4.30v on its own, and the board’s output is set to 4.30v, how is it going to do anything to the cell but just sit there with no current flowing either direction? It will just hold it at 4.30v.

Of course, if you set it to a higher voltage to increase the charge current/shorten the charging time then it would try to keep the 4.30v cell at 4.32 or whatever, which I agree, would be not good for it.

hi i’m not sure if you fully understand how lithium ion charging should be done. it’s not just a simple cc/cv. the charge controllers also SHUT DOWN the current once the current drops to a certain threshold in the CV phase. typically 10% of the CC value

ever noticed how the current gets smaller and smaller as you approach the 4.30v mark? the problem is right there: the current (albeit small) keeps flowing for a long long time. that’s why a proper charge controller cuts off before that happens e.g. if CC is 500ma then once the current drops below 50ma then charging is terminated


Charge pattern per cell in a Li Ion is almost identical to that of a properly charged lead acid battery (which just happens to have 6 cells in it

The current goes down on its own as the charging medium saturates (thus the full point being the current flow is not 10% of the battery capacity) , the constant current is there to limit MAXIMUM charge rate, otherwise just limiting voltage charging could be easily done with a constant voltage regulator, but the amount of current the battery will absorb initially will very large, dangerously large if not limited)

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery

Notice the constant current dashed portion of the graph, voltages are different per cell naturally, but the constant current aspect is the charge pattern that determines the “fullness” of the battery

I use one of these to charge my daughters 6vdc lead acid battery in her little power wheels car, set to 2.35vdc per cell, then feed the output thru a HF multimeter, short the leads adjust max current rate to say 1A or less, then tie into the battery, you can watch the volts drop, current goes up…but after a while as the current draw lowers the voltage levels out at the set rate, then as the current decreases to around 10% of maximum rated mAh of the battery, then its full, nice thing is with lead acid you can set a float voltage or approx 2.25vdc per cell (13.8 for a 6 cell “12vdc lead acid battery” and leave it indefinitely as the battery no longer absorbs current at the lower voltage setting.

Quote:
Apply 13.8V to any nominally 12V lead-acid battery and it will take just the current needed to keep itself in tip top condition, and it will be ready to deliver its full capacity instantly. Applying a constant potential is called ‘float charging’ and lead-acid batteries are almost perfectly suited to it.

In fact if you charge at 4.2vdc, you can “float voltage” a Li Ion cell at 4.1vdc but the Li Ion chemistry and construction is very different and complex…it’s best to just charge then remove the charge from Li Ion where lead acid can be floated indefinitely
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/power/float-charging-lithiu...

You can charge a 4.35vdc Li Ion cell on a 4.2vdc charger, it just won’t saturate fully, or ever maximum charge, it will be perfectly fine to use but won’t ever be at it’s full maximum mAh rating.

Manually charging a battery is possible…but it must be monitored CONSTANTLY, these Li Ion chargers the IC does the monitoring for us

They do offer Li Ion charging IC’s that charge at 4.35vdc…but you have to build the board yourself
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/34254

Take this charger above, gut it, tie in the above linked charging module w/ a 4.35vdc MCP73834 (the MCP73833 is the 4.20fixed output chip) and it will charge those batteries at the correct CC/CV rate (also the Xtar MC1 is a good little host unit as well)

More or less this

wight
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WarHawk-AVG wrote:
[snip]They do offer Li Ion charging IC’s that charge at 4.35vdc…but you have to build the board yourself
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/34254

Take this charger above, gut it, tie in the above linked charging module w/ a 4.35vdc MCP73834 (the MCP73833 is the 4.20fixed output chip) and it will charge those batteries at the correct CC/CV rate (also the Xtar MC1 is a good little host unit as well)[snip]

The MCP73833 and MCP73834 are both available in the 4.35v flavor, the suffix is actually the designation to look at: MCP73833-NVI/MF

The “I” designates temperature range (for the safety cutoff I think?), the MF designates the package as DFN, and the NV tells us everything else: voltage, termination current, preconditioning current, safety timer, recharge threshold, etc. If there’s a pattern, I don’t see it: the two letter code used seems to be an arbitrary code assigned to a particular set of options. The only 4.35v option is “-NVI/MF”.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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