Group Buy: TERMINATED by Niwalker

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KenCam
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In a previous life, I worked within an industry which fell under the scrutiny of European Union competition law which,as far as I recall,generally prohibits MAP. BUT,exemptions exist in circumstances where a franchise agreement is in place (in accordance with the usual myriad of “subject to…“s drawn up by and only understood by the Brussels lawyers) and of course the manufacturers exert both distribution and price control through these arrangements.

The bottom line? MAP is outlawed in the EU but… you can get round it!

p.s. I had never before heard of Niwalker. I have now and I don’t think they will be on the Christmas wish list

sb56637
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Hi everyone,

I understand the frustration here, and I respect your rights to voice your opinion about the manufacturer in question. However, the BLF Rules about profanity and rudeness do still apply, even in irritating or negative situations. Please respect these rules at all times, as they will contribute to a much more enjoyable environment for everyone around here.

I tried to remove all occurrences of profanity in this thread, but please PM me if I missed any.

Also, thanks to the majority of the posters here who did watch their language despite their frustration.

Thanks a lot, have fun!

Budget Light Forum ...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!

Old-Lumens
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AmandaLee5431 wrote:
We have made copies of Fxxx words for our record.

I had to laugh at that. If you need help with translation of the english slang words, just let me know.Wink

 

The only words you need to learn are "NO MAP" at BLF.

My PayPal address: oldlumens (insert the @ sign here) gmail.com

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Racer
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Old-Lumens wrote:

AmandaLee5431 wrote:
We have made copies of Fxxx words for our record.

I had to laugh at that. If you need help with translation of the english slang words, just let me know.Wink

 

The only words you need to learn are “NO MAP” at BLF.

That gave me a chuckle as well, probably because what they said could have been interpreted about a hundred different ways.

InfinitusEquitas
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Old-Lumens wrote:

AmandaLee5431 wrote:
We have made copies of Fxxx words for our record.

I had to laugh at that. If you need help with translation of the english slang words, just let me know.Wink

 

The only words you need to learn are "NO MAP" at BLF.

Thanks for making me laugh.  Again Big Smile

xed888
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So Vinh bought a bunch of MTG2 Niwalkers and is modding and selling them: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?371182-WTS-My-2-Must-Have&p=4287192#post4287192

And some of our most vocal anti-Niwalker members have joined in on the buy! :bigsmile:

ryansoh3
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That’s just great.

So Vihn can sell them but cellguy can’t?

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tatasal
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Now it’s clear. When Niwalker smelled something nice, they bypassed Cellguy, and did it themselves. Dealers of Niwalker, TAKE NOTE. You’ve been had.

ryansoh3
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xed888 wrote:
And some of our most vocal anti-Niwalker members have joined in on the buy! :bigsmile:

LOL! Big Smile

BLF ≠ B-grade Flashlight Forum

 

jmpaul320
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lol

i signed up before the light was announced

i have to raise money by selling lights if i want this one

not giving up my spot yet, but im not 100% what im doing yet

Would you mind keeping the wrong flashlight?
Best wish, May
Tmart service team

 

Soumil wrote:

PLEASE HELP ME GEARBEsT! IM LITERALLY CRYING!

 

ryansoh3
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It’s interesting how a lot of people sign up for the light without knowing what it is, or the price, for that matter.

Surely I’m missing something.

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MountainKing
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xed888 wrote:
And some of our most vocal anti-Niwalker members have joined in on the buy! :bigsmile:

lmao. no honour.

Never ever forget and forgive. Niwal**er new kid on the block trying to act tough.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24847
Do not support this brand.

DINODIRECTSCAM COMPANY. DO NOT BUY
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11324?page=2#comment-254983

MountainKing
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ryansoh3 wrote:
That’s just great.

So Vihn can sell them but cellguy can’t?

maybe he was the one who complained and offered those cheap asses a better deal …

Never ever forget and forgive. Niwal**er new kid on the block trying to act tough.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24847
Do not support this brand.

DINODIRECTSCAM COMPANY. DO NOT BUY
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11324?page=2#comment-254983

ryansoh3
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It’s best not to point fingers at anyone, but this whole situation is rude and unacceptable, at least to me.

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Pulsar
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Kind of smells like my x40 sales thread...

ryansoh3
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Aww man, we need to have a vets section so that we can talk in private. :~
PM sent.

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vinhnguyen54
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I don’t follow up on what happened to Cellguy and MAP. All I know is NiWalker wont sell lights to his website. I contacted them after Cellguy wsas ban from selling the Vostro. I even ask Cellguys if they would sell me like 10 direcrly and he said they wont even talk to him anymore. He said he would ask for me anyways. I never heard back so I contacted Niwalker to become their dealer. They ask if I have anything to do with the website and I said I am just a modder who buy lights and I don’t know anything about is website. So they said OK they can sell it to me. I am interested in becoming a dealer with a variety of brands and not just Niwalker.

I dont have time to complain to any Dealer about anything so they can sell things to me instead of anyone eles. That’s ridiculous. So think before you accuse someone of what’s going on.

vinhnguyen54
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Niwalker wants to sell their lights to everyone and as much as possible. What good it is for their business to sell me a few to me and not someone eles?! However, They can’t sell to you if you violate their rules. Again, I don’t follow on what happened so i am not exactly sure how the rules was broken.

Tom E
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Hhmm, Wayne provided the GoingGear.com link when he revealed it, so he went thru that dealer most likely - interesting... Very different situation than dealing w/Niwalker direct. Probably $140-$150 or so cost for qty 15, sell for $200-$225 w/shipping, resistor mod and probably almost no cost for parts. Still, a fair deal for most guys not into modding. Wayne still has to take the risks

Ooops, better to hear it direct, thanks Wayne!

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Confront me for answers before making any accusation towards me!

DB Custom
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In almost any story, there is an aspect that is unknown to the majority. Something that got left out of the telling. And, many times, a crucial element to the play of things.

We don’t know the many specifics of this one. I have to agree with Ryan, it doesn’t look good on face value.

Vinh was going to help cellguy out, now he’s the one doing the deal? There’s obviously a lot missing in our story.

And still, there’s so much to be learned here…

tatasal
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Hi Wayne,

In all fairness, this debacle has nothing to do with you at all. So please don’t worry about yourself.

If you try to read several threads in this forum, this is all about the effects of MAP to flashlight buyers who just wanted to have a better deal for their money. It has been raging here every now and then, everytime the MAP policy comes into play.

Most of us here are just disappointed because several group buys had been cancelled, some dealers have been punished, all because of MAP policy which to some of us has deprived us of the opportunity to buy lights at a much lower price.

In fact, I was only minutes away from ordering with Cellguy’s GB and have it addressed to you for modding when Cellguy suddenly announced the cancellation. (What held me back was between the choice of LEDs!)

So go on with your whatever arrangement you have with any manufacturer and don’t worry about the discussions here, for it’s never directed towards you.

EDIT: cancelled GBs

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/22095—-(the first cancelled Vostro GB) http://budgetlightforum.com/node/22431—-Crelant 7G10 http://budgetlightforum.com/node/22359—Solarstorm
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tatasal wrote:
Hi Wayne,

In all fairness, this debacle has nothing to do with you at all. So please don’t worry about yourself.

If you try to read several threads in this forum, this is all about the effects of MAP to flashlight buyers who just wanted to have a better deal for their money. It has been raging here every now and then, everytime the MAP policy comes into play.

Most of us here are just disappointed because several group buys had been cancelled, some dealers have been punished, all because of MAP policy which to some of us has deprived us of the opportunity to buy lights at a much lower price.

In fact, I was only minutes away from ordering with Cellguy’s GB and have it addressed to you for modding when Cellguy suddenly announced the cancellation. (What held me back was between the choice of LEDs!)

So go on with your whatever arrangement you have with any manufacturer and don’t worry about the discussions here, for it’s never directed towards you.

+1

I still do not fully understand what is going on behind the scenes with niwalkers dealings with cellguy etc.

frankly i dont care either, because it doesnt really matter or affect me anymore.

I got quite frustrated at niwalker for pulling the plug on this and the way they handled it.

Group buy is back on now through vinh, I can get my light now if i want…

no problems as far as im concerned Smile

Would you mind keeping the wrong flashlight?
Best wish, May
Tmart service team

 

Soumil wrote:

PLEASE HELP ME GEARBEsT! IM LITERALLY CRYING!

 

cellguy
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vinhnguyen54 wrote:
I don’t follow up on what happened to Cellguy and MAP. All I know is NiWalker wont sell lights to his website. I contacted them after Cellguy wsas ban from selling the Vostro. I even ask Cellguys if they would sell me like 10 direcrly and he said they wont even talk to him anymore. He said he would ask for me anyways. I never heard back so I contacted Niwalker to become their dealer. They ask if I have anything to do with the website and I said I am just a modder who buy lights and I don’t know anything about is website. So they said OK they can sell it to me. I am interested in becoming a dealer with a variety of brands and not just Niwalker.

I dont have time to complain to any Dealer about anything so they can sell things to me instead of anyone eles. That’s ridiculous. So think before you accuse someone of what’s going on.

I can clarify things a bit, but be assured Vinh is not cutting me out or going behind my back here. After the initial meltdown of the GB I emailed Niwalker to see if a solution could be reached. I reiterated my stance I was not violating any known MAP policy and I would not allow them control of the final price. However, I recognized it was their prerogative on whether or not to sell me lights.

Vinh did indeed contact me to see about the availability of purchasing a quantity of lights. At that time I had no idea how bitter Niwalker was or was not about the fallout of the GB and just responded that I would reach out to them and see if they wanted to do business.

Niwalker did respond with an initial willingness to fulfill the order provided the lights would be sold at or above MAP after Vinh’s modification. They also mentioned that Vinh reached out to them direct with an order inquiry. This was last Thursday and the first day of their Autumn Harvest Celebration so Tony said he would provide a quote when they returned to the office.

I did respond to Vinh with this information and it sounds like he just missed that email. I simply wanted to know if he preferred to work through me or direct with Niwalker. If Niwalker was willing to sell direct to him there was no incentive for us to partner – I would not be able to add any value to the deal and there are no hard feelings.

While Niwalker could still provide me the proforma invoices I requested, I suspect any business partnership we may have had is now over. The last note in Tony’s email requested I edit the Title of this thread removing Niwalker’s name. I declined to do so and have not heard back since.

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xmint
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vinhnguyen54 wrote:
Niwalker wants to sell their lights to everyone and as much as possible. What good it is for their business to sell me a few to me and not someone eles?! However, They can’t sell to you if you violate their rules. Again, I don’t follow on what happened so i am not exactly sure how the rules was broken.

Well to the crux, the question is whether Niwalker’s alleged use of a ‘MAP’ policy is a get round to enforce a retail price maintenance, anti competitive policy (again alleged).

RMP in Europe and I believe the US, was made illegal many years ago though MAP (in its correct form) was not banned.

Therefore the question is; has Niwalker with the action it has taken in this instance (that) we are discussing here, used MAP to enforce an anti competitive action?

IF they have done so, and you become a dealer for them are you tacitly agreeing to their actions?

May be worthwhile investigating in more detail their actions and policy’s before becoming one of their dealers or indeed selling any of their products.

I personally do not believe that you were in any way instrumental in the collapse of the GB and hope that at least in this sorry affair, it has been established, that you are not the one that complained, and that is made apparent to all.

It would be good to actually find out who the parties were, that actually complained so we could boycott them. I will be boycotting any Niwalker product in the future for their actions in negating this GB, as I would hope others would do so too.

The views in this post are mine, they are views and beliefs only, and not to be taken as facts.

xmint
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jmpaul320 wrote:
tatasal wrote:
Hi Wayne,

In all fairness, this debacle has nothing to do with you at all. So please don’t worry about yourself.

If you try to read several threads in this forum, this is all about the effects of MAP to flashlight buyers who just wanted to have a better deal for their money. It has been raging here every now and then, everytime the MAP policy comes into play.

Most of us here are just disappointed because several group buys had been cancelled, some dealers have been punished, all because of MAP policy which to some of us has deprived us of the opportunity to buy lights at a much lower price.

In fact, I was only minutes away from ordering with Cellguy’s GB and have it addressed to you for modding when Cellguy suddenly announced the cancellation. (What held me back was between the choice of LEDs!)

So go on with your whatever arrangement you have with any manufacturer and don’t worry about the discussions here, for it’s never directed towards you.

+1

I still do not fully understand what is going on behind the scenes with niwalkers dealings with cellguy etc.

frankly i dont care either, because it doesnt really matter or affect me anymore.

I got quite frustrated at niwalker for pulling the plug on this and the way they handled it.

Group buy is back on now through vinh, I can get my light now if i want…

no problems as far as im concerned Smile

Really!! the way Nilwalker have acted and you don’t care? And no problem!! ???

The views in this post are mine, they are views and beliefs only, and not to be taken as facts.

xmint
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I will be writing to a local MEP to find out if it would be possible to ban commercial imports from companies that misuse MAP as a back-door to enforce RPM in the EU. Prosecuting them would seem impractical as they (companies) don’t appear to have actual trading headquarters in the EU.

Maybe others living in the US might raise the same topic with local authorities over there, as anti competitive practices are I believe very much frowned on. Would these days the Better Business Bureau get involved?

Edit: ‘commercial’ not ban on personal imports

The views in this post are mine, they are views and beliefs only, and not to be taken as facts.

jmpaul320
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xmint wrote:
jmpaul320 wrote:
tatasal wrote:
Hi Wayne,

In all fairness, this debacle has nothing to do with you at all. So please don’t worry about yourself.

If you try to read several threads in this forum, this is all about the effects of MAP to flashlight buyers who just wanted to have a better deal for their money. It has been raging here every now and then, everytime the MAP policy comes into play.

Most of us here are just disappointed because several group buys had been cancelled, some dealers have been punished, all because of MAP policy which to some of us has deprived us of the opportunity to buy lights at a much lower price.

In fact, I was only minutes away from ordering with Cellguy’s GB and have it addressed to you for modding when Cellguy suddenly announced the cancellation. (What held me back was between the choice of LEDs!)

So go on with your whatever arrangement you have with any manufacturer and don’t worry about the discussions here, for it’s never directed towards you.

+1

I still do not fully understand what is going on behind the scenes with niwalkers dealings with cellguy etc.

frankly i dont care either, because it doesnt really matter or affect me anymore.

I got quite frustrated at niwalker for pulling the plug on this and the way they handled it.

Group buy is back on now through vinh, I can get my light now if i want…

no problems as far as im concerned Smile

Really!! the way Nilwalker have acted and you don’t care? And no problem!! ???

yes, i dont care.

i got upset because they were interfering with perfectly legal/normal practice, preventing me from getting a good light at a good price

i am now getting the light i wanted, at a good price

anything else that happened in between is pretty much inconsequential from my point of view…. other peoples problems – etc.

Would you mind keeping the wrong flashlight?
Best wish, May
Tmart service team

 

Soumil wrote:

PLEASE HELP ME GEARBEsT! IM LITERALLY CRYING!

 

xmint
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jmpaul320 wrote:
xmint wrote:
jmpaul320 wrote:
tatasal wrote:
Hi Wayne,

In all fairness, this debacle has nothing to do with you at all. So please don’t worry about yourself.

If you try to read several threads in this forum, this is all about the effects of MAP to flashlight buyers who just wanted to have a better deal for their money. It has been raging here every now and then, everytime the MAP policy comes into play.

Most of us here are just disappointed because several group buys had been cancelled, some dealers have been punished, all because of MAP policy which to some of us has deprived us of the opportunity to buy lights at a much lower price.

In fact, I was only minutes away from ordering with Cellguy’s GB and have it addressed to you for modding when Cellguy suddenly announced the cancellation. (What held me back was between the choice of LEDs!)

So go on with your whatever arrangement you have with any manufacturer and don’t worry about the discussions here, for it’s never directed towards you.

+1

I still do not fully understand what is going on behind the scenes with niwalkers dealings with cellguy etc.

frankly i dont care either, because it doesnt really matter or affect me anymore.

I got quite frustrated at niwalker for pulling the plug on this and the way they handled it.

Group buy is back on now through vinh, I can get my light now if i want…

no problems as far as im concerned Smile

Really!! the way Nilwalker have acted and you don’t care? And no problem!! ???

yes, i dont care.

i got upset because they were interfering with perfectly legal/normal practice, preventing me from getting a good light at a good price

i am now getting the light i wanted, at a good price

anything else that happened in between is pretty much inconsequential from my point of view…. other peoples problems – etc.

Dear oh dear, Suggest you think that through to what it actually means for all of us in the future including YOU.

Good luck with the ‘I’M alright jack’ stance……..

The views in this post are mine, they are views and beliefs only, and not to be taken as facts.

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xed888 wrote:
So Vinh bought a bunch of MTG2 Niwalkers and is modding and selling them: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?371182-WTS-My-2-Must-... And some of our most vocal anti-Niwalker members have joined in on the buy! :bigsmile:

I'm not sure I'll proceed, but I joined before knowing what it was.  (Safe bet it would be something good considering Vinh's other lights.)

My stance remains the same, I'll never buy a stock new Niwalker.  Ever.  

A modded light, secondhand, that's altered (which is what that GB is) that I'm not so sure about.  It benefits the modder, and at present the modder (afaik) has no obligations at all to Niwalker except those he already met, in sending them a payment.

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