Group Buy: TERMINATED by Niwalker

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Tumbleweed48
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A while back I watched a bunch of seagulls in a helluva squabble over a piece of tin foil. None of the needed it, and it wasn’t any good for anything anyway – but because one had it, they all wanted it enough to fight over it.

Damnedest thing I ever saw.

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS
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oRAirwolf wrote:
Sirius9 wrote:
This thread should be renamed to: “R.I.P. Niwalker” Big Smile

We’ll see after Tom E is done with my BK-FA01 Wink

I would bet that Tom or Vinh should be pushing 550K after they get done with it.

xmint
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jmpaul320 wrote:

it means nothing for any of us here as far as i can tell

vinh has already paid for the lights – niwalker could care less at this point what he does with them

it doesnt matter if i choose to buy one from vinh second hand (modded) or not

one of the other 10 people waiting in the “standby” queue get one if i withdraw – niwalkers already got their money

The problem in my view is that it does mean an awful lot for all of us here. At first glance a manufacturer flexing muscles, a small business and a few enthusiasts deprived of a few quid savings from the purchase of a number of lights. Nothing really concerning!!!

But lets consider things not in isolation but in an overall picture.. Over the last few months the use of MAP by various manufactures has escalated to now where I believe it is being used as an excuse to manipulate the minimum price that can be charged for a light. Which is in blatant disregard to laws in place to prevent such actions.

Early on this year I bought a TM26 taking advantage of an offer made my a US company run by some members on this forum. Shortly after the offer had to be withdrawn due to someone dobbing the offer to the manufacture who proceeded to successfully remove the offer.

This was followed by more instances including but not only Fasttech’s tribulations. There is also in place a deal that effectively prevents anyone in the US from purchasing a particular light from anyone but the US dealer. Not just anyone supplying that product as a competitor based in the US but from any commercial seller anywhere in the world. This takes away choice from anyone in the US. Ah nothing serious only a marginal light. But that situation plus these so called ‘MAP’ enforcements have set some IMV very dangerous presidents.

All of which are in my view wholly detrimental to us as enthusiasts wishing to get value and a bargain and choice. If this use of MAP to manipulate not just advertised price but actual selling price continues and escalates, all of us are going to suffer.

A line has to be drawn to show the manufactures that we as consumers will not tolerate the sort of behaviour we are seeing. That just because they operate outside the legal jurisdiction of the US and EU that their actions that try to enforce a minimum price that an item can be sold for, cannot and will not be tolerated by us, and that trying to do so will bring about at least a boycott of their products.

If we do not make noise and take a stand. Things are going to get worse for all. The manufactures at the behest of some of their not good dealers are going to make it very difficult for us to get anything below MRP.

If anyone chooses in this case to purchase a Niwalker product, that is totally up to them, personal freedom is all. Though I must say I am surprised at Vinh

The views in this post are mine, they are views and beliefs only, and not to be taken as facts.

xmint
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AmandaLee5431 wrote:
Well borked let me try to explain you,

First we did clearly stated to Cellguy that all dealers must stock our products. He should not start any selling activity on any Niwalker products as he is not being approved by us yet. This kind of selling behavior is not accepted. However since the GB has started already we wanted to fulfill this order as we understand BLF community is very upset right now. We were in a discussion with Cellguy and offered some solutions to him but he just refused everything we told him. But We still wanted to work with him and we told him to remove Niwalker on the thread title but he didn`t do that. As we were not the one don`t want to proceed.

We want to sell lights as many as possible, 15 Vostro lights we sold to Vinh means nothing us. These lights are for your guys. We just can`t stand to work with a dealer that can not communicate so we decided to work with Vinh directly.

Everyone has their point of view I think we have made the best solution for this situation

Hopefully I`ve explained you well.

Interesting, Let us clear things up once and for all

1. Will you STATE CATAGORICLY that at NO time have Niwalker tried to, or did ENFORCE or STIPULATE a MINIMUM price that your lights can be SOLD for.

2.Will you STATE CATAGORICLY that At NO time have Niwalker used a MAP policy to INFLUANCE or try to INFLUANCE the price that one of your products is sold at, by a dealer not just its advertised price.

3. Will you STATE CATAGORICLY that Niwalker would NOT try or actually prevent a dealer from selling one of your products at below your MAP, should that dealer wish to do so. IF they conform to the EU and USA’s legislative definition of a MAP policy.

The views in this post are mine, they are views and beliefs only, and not to be taken as facts.

Pulsar
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I am guessing we dont want to name any names like FireFoxes 4 or Lips... Which I believe also came from CPF

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Tumbleweed48 wrote:
A while back I watched a bunch of seagulls in a helluva squabble over a piece of tin foil. None of the needed it, and it wasn't any good for anything anyway - but because one had it, they all wanted it enough to fight over it. Damnedest thing I ever saw.

  Love it .

       καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν

                            

       Dc-fix diffuser film  >…  http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42208

B42
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Boaz wrote:

Tumbleweed48 wrote:
A while back I watched a bunch of seagulls in a helluva squabble over a piece of tin foil. None of the needed it, and it wasn’t any good for anything anyway – but because one had it, they all wanted it enough to fight over it. Damnedest thing I ever saw.

  Love it .

That is a good comment, forget where I saw it used before, very effectively. Dont think it quite applies here though, there is a big fuss yeah, but nobody needs any of these lights, so if that’s your argument, everybody needs to shut up about everything Smile And if you cant go complain about lights on BLF, where are you going to complain? But you are right, I’m very late to the party, I dont want it (although I may have wanted a modded one by Vin before this), and I’m just here to complain about the actions of companies that use MAP while I wait for someone! Think of it as your voting stub.

rojos
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Those complaining about MAP have not read the thread obviously.

This reminds me one time in college, there was a student organized protest against increased tuition. It made a lot of noise and started getting some attention.

A group of pot heads saw the protest, didn’t really know what it was about, but they saw it had an anti-establishment vibe and decided to join in with their “legalize Marijuana” picket signs. And next thing you know, a protest that had been legit immediately became a farce.

In case you didn’t get my meaning, the anti-MAP cranks that have joined this thread are the pot-heads from my illustration.

This thread wasn’t about MAP.

The real problem was that the manufacturer refused to sell to a small retailer in order to preserve its relationship with a larger retailer. And then, as things progressed, instead of acting like adults, both parties acted like children.

That was the problem, not MAP.

rojos
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Am I the only one who wishes that retailers and manufacturers would stop taking their fights public on our forums.

All that sh*t should be taken care of between them. Airing their laundry out it public just makes me question the professionalism of both parties.

One of the reasons that I like Illumination Supply and have been very impressed with them is that the one time they were involved in something like this, they took care of it very quietly and didn’t make a stink about it. I thought those are the kind of guys that I want to buy from, because if I ever have a problem with them I know that they’ll deal with it maturely.

I wish more retailers would have the sense to be as discreet.

Pulsar
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rojos
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Lol…

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rojos wrote:

This thread wasn’t about MAP.

The real problem was that the manufacturer refused to sell to a small retailer in order to preserve its relationship with a larger retailer. And then, as things progressed, instead of acting like adults, both parties acted like children.

That was the problem, not MAP.

I get MAP, and don’t have a problem with it. I will not buy a light if it’s too expensive, and I don’t think it’s worth it. Problem solved. But the Niwalker dealt with it is the problem. Not classy.

I can’t say I knew much about Niwalker before this thread. So at least it got my attention.

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS
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Life will go on. Think of it like kids fighting over the last cookie in a cookie jar. Somebody is gonna get that cookie. And somebody ain’t going to be happy and throw a fit. After 8 pages here, I think it’s time to let it go.

B42
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Yeah lots of fighting did go on. However when one reads the thread, part of the issue is a MAP disagreement. One party says yes, another says no. However we have Vin picking up the sale looks like at a higher price after mod, which isn’t fought about by Niwalker, so that tends to indicate Niwalker isnt telling the truth about the claimed MAP issue. Also not classy yes. So yeah the fighting isnt great, but still Booooo to Niwalkers attitude and MAP! And sick the Knights that say Ni on them! Smile

tatasal
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Damn,…. these BLF potheads! haha

kronological
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rojos wrote:
Am I the only one who wishes that retailers and manufacturers would stop taking their fights public on our forums.

All that sh*t should be taken care of between them. Airing their laundry out it public just makes me question the professionalism of both parties.

One of the reasons that I like Illumination Supply and have been very impressed with them is that the one time they were involved in something like this, they took care of it very quietly and didn’t make a stink about it. I thought those are the kind of guys that I want to buy from, because if I ever have a problem with them I know that they’ll deal with it maturely.

I wish more retailers would have the sense to be as discreet.

Best comment to date.

No one, after lighting a lamp, puts it away in a cellar nor under a basket, but on the lampstand, so that those who enter may see the light.

My Reviews: Ma

MountainKing
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Never forget!

Never ever forget and forgive. Niwal**er new kid on the block trying to act tough.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24847
Do not support this brand.

DINODIRECTSCAM COMPANY. DO NOT BUY
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11324?page=2#comment-254983

greatbigwall
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Niwalker are real idiots. These group buys of maybe 20 lights put them into the hands of enthusiasts who post here which is just free advertising. Instead they want to compete with the same 10-15 established manufacturers at the same few distributors, which is guaranteed fail. Who the hell is going to buy Niwalker over Solarforce, Eagletac, etc, without putting their name out there for better product? Now everyone knows them for screw over the community. So dumb.

LSX
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greatbigwall wrote:
Niwalker are real idiots. These group buys of maybe 20 lights put them into the hands of enthusiasts who post here which is just free advertising. Instead they want to compete with the same 10-15 established manufacturers at the same few distributors, which is guaranteed fail. Who the hell is going to buy Niwalker over Solarforce, Eagletac, etc, without putting their name out there for better product? Now everyone knows them for screw over the community. So dumb.

I agree completely. Who cares if they were going to be sold cheaper than they wanted. Niwalker were going to get the money they wanted and they would have had a whole bunch of their lights out there in the hands of people in a position to really spread the name of the brand. Let’s be honest, without forums like this how many high powered led lights would be getting sold anyway? The way I see it, had they just let this buy go ahead they would have done a world of good for their brand instead they have pissed off a lot of people and have tarnished their own brand before they have really even made a name for themselves. Not the best start. Eagletac it is for me.

DB Custom
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I think I favor MAP, I mean, the idea of it. It’s about us, after all, isn’t it?
Majority Always Prevails! Smile

The Majority Always Prevails
When looking for deals and great sales
They gather their might
To see through the night
And boycott the minority fails.

Calmaja
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AmandaLee5431 wrote:
Hey guys we would like to make things clearly here. We do not/will not support any people who trying to get fast cash out of a sales. We do not mind GB activity as we know this will grow our customer base but this has to go through an authorized dealer only. Don’t you think anyone who wants start GB should have discussed with us before anything they planning to do? We are sorry for so many troubles here but please understand why we are doing this.Thanks

AmandaLee5431 wrote:
Well borked let me try to explain you,

First we did clearly stated to Cellguy that all dealers must stock our products. He should not start any selling activity on any Niwalker products as he is not being approved by us yet. This kind of selling behavior is not accepted. However since the GB has started already we wanted to fulfill this order as we understand BLF community is very upset right now. We were in a discussion with Cellguy and offered some solutions to him but he just refused everything we told him. But We still wanted to work with him and we told him to remove Niwalker on the thread title but he didn`t do that. As we were not the one don`t want to proceed.

We want to sell lights as many as possible, 15 Vostro lights we sold to Vinh means nothing us. These lights are for your guys. We just can`t stand to work with a dealer that can not communicate so we decided to work with Vinh directly.

Everyone has their point of view I think we have made the best solution for this situation

Hopefully I`ve explained you well.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24847?page=4#comment-467988

tatasal wrote:
This is Niwalker’s email to the original Vostro GB that I organized that was also cancelled:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/22095

Please stop your group buy activity on your site. You are not an authorized dealer selling our products. If you wish to work with us you need to at least follow our MAP.

We won`t offer you any Niwalker products as for now.

Best regards,

Tony Sung | General Manager

Just read the entire thread, from my point of view, this is about MAP.

Let’s see standard price of Niwalker’s products later Smile

MountainKing
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As rightly pointed out by others, there is no way I’m going to buy ‘quality’ HIGH PRICED flashlights without proper review by fellow forum members (here or elsewhere) and the brands I am most certainly going to go to are definetely fenix, zebra, quark, eagletac, possibly nitecore.
Jetbeams are kinda expensive. Olight never really stuck a chord with me. Sunwayman brand name is just lame. Lumintop never bought but could consider. I might be missing out others but the 4 mentioned above are my definete favourites.

As regards to new entrants such as the one mentioned above, there should have been overwhelming positive reviews and a good price ( for being a new entrant) for me to even consider it. That said, if the price point is more or less that of an established brand product with a similar competing product, I know where my money will go…

Never ever forget and forgive. Niwal**er new kid on the block trying to act tough.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24847
Do not support this brand.

DINODIRECTSCAM COMPANY. DO NOT BUY
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11324?page=2#comment-254983

rojos
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Calmaja wrote:
tatasal wrote:
This is Niwalker’s email to the original Vostro GB that I organized that was also cancelled
Just read the entire thread, from my point of view, this is about MAP.

tatasal’s thread had an advertised price. This thread did not. This thread was not about MAP.

tatasal
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rojos wrote:
Calmaja wrote:
tatasal wrote:
This is Niwalker’s email to the original Vostro GB that I organized that was also cancelled
Just read the entire thread, from my point of view, this is about MAP.

tatasal’s thread had an advertised price. This thread did not. This thread was not about MAP.

Correct. That is the reason why l resurrected my old thread, just to show the difference.
Calmaja
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rojos wrote:
tatasal’s thread had an advertised price. This thread did not. This thread was not about MAP.

For me basically about MAP because they refer to MAP as part of settlement for this GB.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24847?page=4#comment-467988

rojos
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Calmaja wrote:
rojos wrote:
tatasal’s thread had an advertised price. This thread did not. This thread was not about MAP.

For me basically about MAP because they refer to MAP as part of settlement for this GB.

Just because MAP was mentioned does not mean it was what the problem was really about.
MAP was used as an excuse to stop the sale, but it was merely an excuse.
The real reason was something else.

tatasal
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rojos wrote:
Calmaja wrote:
rojos wrote:
tatasal’s thread had an advertised price. This thread did not. This thread was not about MAP.

For me basically about MAP because they refer to MAP as part of settlement for this GB.

Just because MAP was mentioned does not mean it was what the problem was really about.
MAP was used as an excuse to stop the sale, but it was merely an excuse.
The real reason was something else.

Again, you are correct.

Sirius9
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Are you still talking about Niwalker!!! I already forgot about them, as if they never existed Big Smile

 

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS
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They are selling like hotcakes over at CPF. Wink

tatasal
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ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS wrote:
They are selling like hotcakes over at CPF. Wink

Yeah, but it could be selling a LOT MORE with the original Cellguy/Vinh combination than with the current Niwalker-intervened price.

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