Sold out: $20 HD2010 & $15 Convoy C8 copper pills

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ryansoh3
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Sold out: $20 HD2010 & $15 Convoy C8 copper pills

The last Convoy C8 has some aesthetic blemishes and thus qualifies for free untracked shipping. (Sold.)

Those who want extra room for HD2010 additional 2x AMC stacking:
1x Tom E
2x troisanh
1x LinusHofmann
1x DBCstm
1x HarleyQuin
2x crnkin
1x FmC
2x leafeye
1x scotlarock

I’ve ordered 25 3x (total) AMC edition HD2010 pills and 15 2x (total) AMC edition pills. Smile
Let me know if you want to be on this list!

Comparison:

Taking payments:

I’m taking payments now until the stock runs out.

Please use this form to guide you through the payment process:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1gS-hwz_6ze33ydM-Ib9aE4jS3yazCOA1H-ezTF2...

Please feel free to PM me or comment below if you have any questions.

Update 10/29/2013 KST:

I’ve just returned from the machine shop and put a down payment for 40 HD2010 and 30 Convoy C8 copper pills.

Here are the changes (from the samples) that are going to be applied:
-The HD2010 pill’s surface will be flat, not drilled(as seen in the photos). The positive and negative lead holes will be diagonally cut from the edges of the 17mm driver slot to the 20mm LED PCB contact plate.
-Increase the LED PCB contact plate by 1mm for the HD2010 so that the LED would be correctly focused.

-The top height of the Convoy C8 pill will be increased by 1.5mm to increase thermal mass without compromising proper assembly.

The machinist quoted 8-10 days for the preparing and machining process from today.

_________________________________________________________

Pre-order form here now online!
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1rYuU4ty2w-wS-f49kmkoI3l1TsWFOIGGohbexCB...

Update 10/28/2013 KST:

I’ve just returned from the machine shop with samples of HD2010 and Convoy C8 pills.

They’re very hefty, as seen in the photos:
HD2010 original:

HD2010 copper:

Convoy C8 original:

Convoy C8 copper:

Here’s some comparison shots of the HD2010 copper pill:



As you can see, the amount of copper shaved off is minimized without compromising clearance.

More photos:

There’s a lot of copper above the driver, so if you’re stacking AMC7135 chips, it may not fit.
In the sample HD2010 pill, there’s 3mm of clearance for components above the driver PCB.

If you stack one more layer of chips, I think they’ll touch the pill, but you’ll still be able to press fit them. (Plus, the chips are then heatsinked.)


The HD2010 copper pill can now accept 20mm SinkPad/Noctigons without any problems.

In the final edition, the pill contact surface will be flat, unlike in this sample.
The LED wire path will be diagonal, so that it will connect from the edges of the 17mm driver slot to the 20mm PCB surface.

Here’s some shots of the Convoy C8 pill:

The drivers will be press fit. The retaining rings and their threads have been removed to improve thermal capacity as well as minimize cost.

Here’s how they look assembled:





I’ll post up a pre-order form in a couple of hours.

Pricing will be $20 for the HD2010 pill and $15 for the Convoy C8 pill.
Base shipping will be $3 and add $1 per additional pill to anywhere in the world and add $3 if you want tracking.

The goal is 50 units combined. If we reach 100 units, they will be $18 and $13 respectively.
45 out of 50 units claimed.
There’s not set deadline, but the faster we sign up, the earlier we get our pills.
The machining time is 4 days and the shipping time is 8-14 days.

Cheers!
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hey BLF,

I asked vestureofblood how he would feel about others selling copper pills, and he suggested that I do a feeler thread to gauge interest for different pills.

So I created a quick survey where members can share what hosts they’re interested in.

The results of this will be viewable to everyone, and I hope that this can be used by other machinists to see what members want.

This is not binding of course, just a feeler so that other members and I have a starting point.

Here’s the survey: http://jo.my/copperpills

Here’s the summary of the results: http://jo.my/copperpillssummary

Here’s the response sheet: http://jo.my/copperpillsresponses

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Edited by: ryansoh3 on 03/30/2014 - 01:13
Bort
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Which C8?
If it will fit a convoy c8 that might interest me

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ryansoh3
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Yeah, the pills of the different “brand” C8’s might not be compatible with each other.

I currently have a Convoy C8 from FastTech, so that wouldn’t be a problem.

Edited the form, thanks. Smile

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Jayc
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Where’s the SolarForce luv?
> <”
At any rate, I submitted my data.

ryansoh3
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Thanks for your responses guys.

Seems like the Convoy C8 and the P60 pills are the most popular.

I’m just wondering, are all P60 pills compatible with each other?

I have a P60 pill from FastTech but not sure if it’s compatible with other pills…

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Ouchyfoot
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I don’t see the point of a copper P60 pill unless it is totally redesigned. They don’t really make contact with the flashlight body to dissapate heat. It would have to be designed to eliminate that big ground spring, and fit snugly into the body tube.

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Copper P-60 pills are being made, professionally silver plated and with either a center hole for triple board or the more conventional reflector style with 2 holes at the sides.

Contact member mattaus. This is not a new thing for Matt. Wink

Ouchyfoot, which tube? This is why they don’t fit snugly, they’re made to be able to fit a wide variety of brands. Make it a bit small and it fits everything, a little too big and it fits nothing.

Cut a 7/8” wide strip out of the last beer can you tossed. Wrap it in a circle around your pinky, drop it in the tube. Try to put your drop-in inside. Remove and cut short lengths off the strip until the pill fits. Voila! Problem solved.

Ouchyfoot
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DBCstm wrote:
Make it a bit small and it fits everything, a little too big and it fits nothing.

Cut a 7/8” wide strip out of the last beer can you tossed. Wrap it in a circle around your pinky, drop it in the tube. Try to put your drop-in inside. Remove and cut short lengths off the strip until the pill fits. Voila! Problem solved.


If you have to shim it with beer cans or copper tape it kind of negates the beauty of a custom copper pill.
Best to stick with a popular light type that the pill threads into the head.
A P60 copper pill would only be worthwhile if it was designed for a specific host. Say an L2P, and exactly fit tightly into that host. Not really worth while. Easier to use a copper star and jam a piece of copper pipe in the body to fit the pill.
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Yeah, I hear ya. Matt’s are beautiful, but of course that disappears when you cram it into a host. Then it’s all about functionality. Someone needs to invent a clear host. Wink

ryansoh3
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We have some varied expectations, from $2 per pill to $110. Big Smile

So I current have these two pills with me, I’ll just ask my local machinist for a quote for both. I’ll just tell him to duplicate them in copper.


Do you guys think it’s necessary to have the retaining ring shown in the third pic to be in copper as well?

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DB Custom
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The retaining ring wouldn’t have to be in copper, but I wish there were one on the HD2010 pill, it would greatly simplify grounding the driver in that one.

The “pill” in my M8 is an external part as well, it’s literally the middle section of the light. It has more area’s of threading as the head and battery tube connect directly to it, with o-ring seals, it’s finned, so I would expect it to be in the $110 range, it’s also larger in diameter so would require a larger piece of expensive copper. I will be having Matt make this one for me when I can get the funds available from my manager’s coffer. (The wife)

FWIW, the machine shop down the street took a look at the M8 pill and wanted to take it in to the the guy that programs the CNC machine, said it’d probably be over $200 with it’s complexity. I think he wanted to program the machine and start selling them! Can’t say as I blame him, as it’s a nice part.

What I can’t figure out, is why they spend the extra time and cost machining out the middle of these pills? Why not leave it more solid? Beautiful pill, thin shelf for the star to sit on. What’s up with that? I put a 1/2” of copper under it, which helps, but it’s nothing compared to the entire pill being made of copper. Smile

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ryansoh3 wrote:
We have some varied expectations, from $2 per pill to $110. Big Smile

So I current have these two pills with me, I’ll just ask my local machinist for a quote for both. I’ll just tell him to duplicate them in copper.

Do you guys think it’s necessary to have the retaining ring shown in the third pic to be in copper as well?


It would be nice if you would make ​​c8 pill for 20 mm star
troisanh
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Bore led/star to fit 20mm please.

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Why bore the pill for a larger star? Why not use a smaller star and let the pill do the work? Reflow the star to the pill while putting the emitter on the star, it’s all one piece, absolute best thermal path. A 16mm star easily does that with no need for that extra 2mm all the way around. My 2 cents.

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Hmm… I just measured the diameter of the star placement base and I thought it would be a stretch for the C8 because its outer diameter is already pretty small, but I think it would be possible for the HD2010.

The OD of the HD2010 pill is larger and the star base diameter is already pretty big at about 18mm.

DBCstm, would there be a better thermal path to the pill if there was a greater contact area between the star and the pill?

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leaftye
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Don't just copy the HD2010 pill.  Allow it to take a 20mm star and 17mm driver, but with enough mass underneath to allow the pill to be bored out to accommodate a 20mm driver.  You could ask MRsDNF for the design, then you'd have a pill that's better than what vestureofblood did with his pills, and it'd have more thermal mass too.

 

Another replacement pill could be for Convoy, especially if there's a pill that's used for multiple popular lights.

The low mode should be lower.

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I’m no specialist in this stuff, but it seems to me that the heat is going to follow as direct a line as it’s allowed to. The tiny emitter base is where it’s coming from, if allowed to flow into the pill freely it will have an angle of travel much like the light that flows from the emitter, or a 125º emission angle. I’ve seen charts that indicated that to be so. Thermal imaging was used to show that heat flows into the heat sink at almost exactly the same conical pattern as the radiance of light out the front.

That is , unless it’s bottlenecked, then it has no choice but to mushroom out looking (as it were) for the way out. Given a nice copper pill, with the star soldered to it, the heat is going down before it goes out. So a larger star won’t see any real heat until the sink starts seeing saturation.

leaftye
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Maybe so, but some of us would still prefer to use a larger star.  It's a lot easier to fit a 16mm star in a 20mm hole than the other way around.  If I have the choice between a HD2010 pill that doesn't fit a 20mm star and a pill that does like the one vestureofblood made, I'd go with the one that does.

The low mode should be lower.

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A 16mm copper star in a copper pill is exactly the same as a 20mm copper star in the same size copper pil. A flashligh doesn’t know where the star ends and the pill begins. It’s all copper.

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leaftye wrote:

Don’t just copy the HD2010 pill.  Allow it to take a 20mm star and 17mm driver, but with enough mass underneath to allow the pill to be bored out to accommodate a 20mm driver.  You could ask MRsDNF for the design, then you’d have a pill that’s better than what vestureofblood did with his pills, and it’d have more thermal mass too.

 

Another replacement pill could be for Convoy, especially if there’s a pill that’s used for multiple popular lights.


I’d love to help but I never used a standard battery tube with a new pill. My battery tubes were made to suit longer pills. It would not be hard to measure up though.

 

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leaftye
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A bigger star also helps prevent shorts with the reflector when thicker wires are used.

The low mode should be lower.

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leaftye! The issue of the reflector on the HD2010’s shorting out on the connections is much more easily handled with the larger star. I had forgotten that I enlarged the pill in mine for a 20mm star but then, I’ve done so many things to mine it’s hard to remember just exactly where it does stand. lol

Reckon I ought to get a new one and start over. Wink

leaftye
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So what’s the ETA for something like this?  I’d order more if there was more lead time.

 

It doesn’t look like the Convoy pills isn’t practical like I was hoping for by looking at these pictures.  That would have been real slick if their lights were modular.

 

I doubt many, or any, others would be interested, but I’d like copper pills for the A8 clone and F13. I believe both these lights use the same pill.

The low mode should be lower.

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Anyone know if the Fandyfire HD2010 pill is different to the Ultrafire HD2010?

From the picture ryansoh3 posted above, it looks like the UF takes a larger driver, or at least has a thicker wall for the driver cavity. The topside appears to be the same.

MRsDNF wrote:
I’d love to help….

Would you love to help a fellow Aussie, & also keep Aust. Post working, by sending me up one of those copper HD2010 slugs???? Wink

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I’m not seeing the benefit of a copper pill.

Other than for soldering too.

Tom E measured no appreciable difference between a copper c8 pill and a brass equivalent, there’s pretty much your best and worst case scenario, I can see replacing alu with a more easily solder able alternative but its not going to magically improve your light over the improvements a direct bonded copper star will make, and its just as easy to silver solder a copper star to a brass pill as it is to solder a star to a copper pill, you still have a junction there and lead/rosin solder is a pretty crap thermal conductor tbh.

Good luck with this either way, I just don’t see the benefit, I’d love to be proved wrong but there’s nothing yet.

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Personal experience tells me that the copper pill will take much more heat away from the star than an aluminum one will…all other things being equal. I have soldered connecting wires to the copper star on my HD2010 pill too many times. With this light I have learned to mod. It’s not really difficult to solder to the star when it’s on the stock aluminum pill. But, after I put 1/2” of copper in the core of the pill, cutting out the middle of the pill so that the copper star is sitting directly on top of the copper….my Hakko 888 station is taxed to solder on it now. So for me it’s fairly easy to see that the addition of a mass of copper to the pill has greatly increased it’s thermal absorption rate. If it sucks the heat out of my soldering iron set to 1000º F, then it will also suck the heat from any emitter I put in there.

A full copper pill would give even more benefit, as it carries even more mass.

Edit: I have also made light engines for the L2P consisting of a 7/8” diameter copper rod 1” long. The star is re-flowed directly to the top of this chunk of copper. If I don’t put some solder paste on the connection pads when I’m doing the reflow, I will not be able to solder the wires onto the star later. My Hakko goes to 1100ºF, it won’t do it if the star is not pre-tinned.

That’s about 3 ounces of copper. Overkill? Beyond me to say. Many of us do things the way we do simply because it’s what we want/like/believe. Works for me.

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@DBCstm: Its all correct what you say, but gords main point was that copper is not better than brass. There is enough data to back that claim, though I disagree with lead being a bad conductor. Its about 8-10times better than Arctic Silver.

The main benefit of copper is, that it can extend your runtime on high in lights that are too small to handle the heat, because it takes longer to saturate the heatsink. Downside of that is, that such lights will take longer to cool down.

leaftye
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I'm an ultralight backpacker and (sports)car guy.  Paying for slight mods to gain an edge in performance that's barely perceptible at best is part of the game.

You may be right though, but that's part of the reason I'm asking for slight design changes that will have tangible benefits.

The low mode should be lower.

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According to an easy search, brass has a thermal conductivity value of 109 as compared to coppers 401. Don’t argue with me, argue with the engineers.

Thermal Specific _Den _“Thermal
conduct HeatCap _sity _volume”
(W / mK) (J / gK) (g/cc)_ (J/ccK)
Aluminum 250 0.85 ___2.7 2.3
Brass….. 110 __0.38 ___8.6 __3.2
Copper… 400 0.39 10.5__ 4.0
Silver….. 430 __0.23 ___9.0 __2.1

NightCrawl
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DBCstm wrote:
According to an easy search, brass has a thermal conductivity value of 109 as compared to coppers 401. Don't argue with me, argue with the engineers.

All true. But not nearly as significant as you may think. I've posted this pic before and I'll post it again:

Taken from here: http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/modding/13515-bastis-bastelbude-13.html#post296083

Testing of a copper star on Alu, Cu and Ms (brass) heatsinks.

What matters is the thermal properties of the first material after the LED - the PCB. After that, its pretty much irrelevant. Seeing how good brass performs, a heatsink made out of solder would still work great. See how aluminium gives a lower temperature reading than copper, although the thermal conductivity of copper is higher? Thats because there are other values to consider.

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don’t forget.

whilst the pill may absorb more heat, it still has to shed it through the threads, increasing the mass/using a different material merely gives you a bigger heat store, it doesn’t necessarily translate to an ability to allow the light to shed more heat.

I guess thats the point both myself and nightcrawl are trying to make.

yeah, all that copper will make it harder to solder to the pads, but it still might not get more heat out of a light, and that is really the aim here, myself, I’m just happy if a pill is brass rather than alu, and really, according to the facts above, I should be gutted if this were the case.

its all headology rather than technology.

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