Which Is Better And Why?

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Dimbo The Blinky
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Which Is Better And Why?
Knowing
83% (55 votes)
Believing
17% (11 votes)
Total votes: 66

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

Dimbo The Blinky
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beLIEve…

I believe in knowing.

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

8steve88
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I know that I believe in knowledge.

gords1001
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I like to know, believing is for those that still need a security blanket….

CRX
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I believe i know

zelee
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knowing is believing Steve

Bort
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If you can know thats better because beliefs can be twisted or interpreted in ways that condone prison, murder and suicide
Knowing means you have to deal with facts and it raises challenges that must be overcome
Not everything can be known and you may have to work from incomplete information or to trust

I like the vagueness of this question, you do not mention if your talking about chinese lumens, organized religion or something in between.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

dchomak
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There are a lot of people who neither claim to know or believe something is true. They are the ones that say “I feel this to be true”.

lionheart_2281
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Haha and here I was expecting TK75 vs FFIV!

Dimbo The Blinky
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dchomak wrote:
“I feel this to be true”.
Feeling is almost like Knowing, in the Biblical sense…

“First Base”, in the sensual sense…

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

Tumbleweed48
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‘Feeling’ in the biblical sense got my face slapped….:-(

‘Knowing’ in the biblical sense got me married.

I believe I know where I made my mistake.

Bort
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What prompted this thread?

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Dimbo The Blinky
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_

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

jacktheclipper
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" It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Mark Twain

What I do

 

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It’s kind’a difficult to believe something that you don’t know anything about. I say belief and knowledge seems to go hand in hand. Flat Stare

Bort
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Dimbo The Blinky wrote:
I Had A Feeling.

I couldn’t resist

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

ryansoh3
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Bort wrote:
Dimbo The Blinky wrote:
I Had A Feeling.
I couldn’t resist

Love the top comment. Smile

BLF ≠ B-grade Flashlight Forum

 

jp42k
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Building our own answer supported in facts approach us to the true.

VFMaddict
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The Conundrum

More than half the people who have ever been born are still alive today (A mathematical fact).
Therefore only half the people who have ever been born have died.
Upon this basis is to true to say that I believe I will one day die or that I know I will one day die.

Sometimes its difficult to differentiate between belief and knowledge.

"You are making progress if each mistake you make is a new one."

Remember - Most great discoveries start with maki

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Both are illusory.

Dimbo The Blinky
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Racer wrote:
Both are illusory.

M-kay…

Given that the definition of “illusory” is:
“ 1. based on illusion; not real.”

How, exactly, is Knowledge, that being
“ 1.facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.”

or

“ 2.awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.”

… “illusory”?

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

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Believing is much better than Knowing. Knowledge is gained how? From learning? Learning comes from knowledge of others along with your own experiments or experiences? How many times throughout history have there been, when knowledge ended up being incorrect. Something "known to be true" ends up being wrong. It happens a lot..., like every day!Surprised

Believing takes no knowledge at all. It does not take reason or even the ability to think rationally. In fact beliefs work better if one is not rational at all, so believing is much easier to accept. One does not have to prove anything, one can simply believe.Wink

 

Of course, I have no first hand knowledge of any of the statements above, nor do I believe in them...Tongue Out

 

My PayPal address: oldlumens (insert the @ sign here) gmail.com

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I know in my heart which one is better.

Racer
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Dimbo The Blinky wrote:
Racer wrote:
Both are illusory.

M-kay…

Given that the definition of “illusory” is:
“ 1. based on illusion; not real.”

How, exactly, is Knowledge, that being
“ 1.facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.”

or

“ 2.awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.”

… “illusory”?

Obviously I don’t believe in knowledge Wink

“All I know is that I know nothing” ~ Socrates

Dimbo The Blinky
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VFMaddict wrote:
More than half the people who have ever been born are still alive today (A mathematical fact).
Based on what evidence?

And, what do you mean by “people”? Homo Sapiens is but one specie of “people”, and the evidence is mounting that “we” have been here a lot longer than Judeo-Christian beliefs will tolerate.

As SWMBO has been preaching for decades, there is much more evidence that (e.g.) Neanderthal DNA was incorporated into Cro Magnon, et seq. than the popular Xenophobic “extirpation” fantasy. (Q “What happened to the Neanderthals?” A “We’re still here!” Q “What about the Cro-Magnons?” A “Us too!” “Friggin’ illiterate Cro-Magnons!”)

Sorry, but it is not difficult to discriminate. This is what it looks like to “examine your beliefs” and maintain a sense of humor. Trust me, it isn’t fun! It won’t win you any friends or influence many people (of any species)! But it’s like the old cliche, “Once you see it, you’ll never be able to ‘un-see’ it!”

(Hint: the same rocks were there, then…)

What difference does it make whether you die or not some day? What matters is what you do with THIS day. If I can prove that, is it still a belief?

(EDIT: Link to show SWMBO is just leading the pack…)

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

Dimbo The Blinky
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Old-Lumens wrote:
Learning comes from knowledge of others along with your own experiments or experiences? How many times throughout history have there been, when knowledge ended up being incorrect. Something “known to be true” ends up being wrong. It happens a lot…, like every day!
Sometimes you gotta have faith!

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

Dimbo The Blinky
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Chloe wrote:
I know in my heart which one is better.

“Beauty is its own Truth, defying Logic.”

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

Dimbo The Blinky
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Racer wrote:
Obviously I don’t believe in knowledge Wink

“All I know is that I know nothing” ~ Socrates

That is fine.

But why?

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

ToyKeeper
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I don’t like either option. What about the middle options, such as Bayesian probability?

I guess that’s probably closer to believing, since it’s basically an explicit way to not know something, and more specifically, have a reasonable estimate of just how much one doesn’t know it. But… OTOH, it could also be considered closer to knowing, since it allows one to be pretty darn sure of things when all the evidence points in the same direction, even if the conclusion is explicitly not proven to be absolutely true.

Racer
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Dimbo The Blinky wrote:
Racer wrote:
Obviously I don’t believe in knowledge Wink

“All I know is that I know nothing” ~ Socrates

That is fine.

But why?

Existing knowledge (expertise) can act as a barrier to new knowledge. I think in Zen it is called the “beginner’s mind.” Your existing knowledge, biases, notions and beliefs can sometimes prevent you from seeing the painfully obvious. Knowledge itself can be dogma.

Years ago I used to give a lot of presentations and occasionally do public speaking. People were telling me I was over-prepared even though it felt like I was unprepared. A co-worker whose brother was a Buddhist monk told me about this. It’s also proven to be invaluable by trying to approach every problem as a blank slate; an empty vessel.

dchomak
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There are many kinds of knowledge. Most people in this discussion are referring to intellectual knowledge. That can usually be the most trustworthy, however there is a trap in that. It was discussed somewhat in another thread referring to “Confident Ignorance”
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11077
There are other forms of knoweledge, for instance, Carnal knowlege.
Then there is spiritual knowledge, as it relates to the major religions.
There is also “knowledge of the heart”, as I believe, Chloe referred to. (notice I used the phrase “I believe”, because I could be wrong.) Wink
Then there is experiential knowledge, knowledge of self, etc.

The subject of knowledge and belief is the center of the major religions. Faith too. It is a kin to knowledge. In our daily lives, we trust on our knowlege, beliefs and feelings to do even the most simple of tasks. This is all really heavy stuff.

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