Ledil Crystal, coming soon

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Rufusbduck
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Ledil Crystal, coming soon

46.8 Dia tir lens, 5 degree spot w/xp, 8 degree spot w/ XML. Any idea when “soon” might be. At under 30 mm in depth, it leaves plenty of room underneath for the pill.
Ledil Crystal

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

djozz
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Nice optic, I have not seen a TIR this big yet. Is there a known flashlight that fits it exactly?

FlashPilot
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Ive had my eyes on those too. Waiting for the 3 degree TIR for xpe. Fingers crossed that it works well @2.2A with xpe2/copper.

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I read the title as lead crystal and was wondering why your promoting it Big Smile

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Hopback
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I emailed them a couple of months ago about the possibility of a sample of the Crystal and Crystal Mine and also asked them how soon “soon” was….no reply Sad

mattthemuppet
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fingers crossed + hoping one of you will get one to do a review! A couple of these would make a monster bar light Smile

FlashPilot
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I need some help from you guys to bug ledil to get on the ball with these. They were added to the catalog back in July and still no response. Im after the tightest spot for XM-L2 and will need at least 16 of these, and possibly as many as 48… and I need them soon:

http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/8908

If you can email the following people with a request, maybe they will respond with good news… hey, its worth a try. Wink
Please copy/paste these recipients into your email: nonna.raita@ledil.com; sales@ledil.com; joni.maki@ledil.com and ask.

Thanks!

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FlashPilot wrote:
I need some help from you guys to bug ledil to get on the ball with these. They were added to the catalog back in July and still no response. Im after the tightest spot for XM-L2 and will need at least 16 of these, and possibly as many as 48... and I need them soon: http://www.ledil.com/node/2/p/8908 If you can email the following people with a request, maybe they will respond with good news... hey, its worth a try. Wink Please copy/paste these recipients into your email: nonna.raita@ledil.com; sales@ledil.com; joni.maki@ledil.com and ask. Thanks!
I imagine it will only serve to irritate. 

My response from them was:

Hello Justin,

Thanks for the inquiry.

Crystal has not been released yet.  Shall keep you posted on the release schedule.  You can also contact me from time to time,  see where we are.

Regards,

 

Jin

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Rufusbduck
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At least that sounds like they are still in the pipeline.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

FlashPilot
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Maybe youre right OL. I doubt they have any feedback for demand in some of their unreleased products and thought a bit of customer anticipation might help.

Gurthang
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Looking at the Ledil website the RS product sheet was last revised in July 2013, the MINE was December 2013.

Ledil does make other large diameter optics, the IRIS family in particular. Digi-Key and Newark both stock IRIS optics for the XP-E and MC-E

FlashPilot
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Of the five 10 degree XML spots offered, its hard to ignore the merits of the Crystal.

C12916_CRYSTAL-RS = cd/lm 27.200
FCA12104_IRIS = cd/lm 18.100

DB Custom
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This should fit my K3, which would be awesome with the MT-G2! :), yeah yeah the domes to big, but I have a scalpel for that...

FlashPilot
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DBCstm wrote:

This should fit my K3, which would be awesome with the MT-G2! :), yeah yeah the domes to big, but I have a scalpel for that…

… and you’ll be just the one to try. Have you seen the C12476_MIRELLA-50-S? Its the tightest and highest cd/lm they offer for mtg2

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I actually had used a TIR on a de-domed MT-G2 before in the K3 and the beam profile was quite decent. But I had ruined the emitter in the de-dome process and when I replaced it I left it domed, which wouldn't fit in the TIR designed for an XM-L2. So I still have that TIR floating in my kit. 

I'll look into that link, thanks. Wink

Hmmm.....you reckon I can cram that into an AA MiniMag? Sealed

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Update:

A US rep contacted me and had this to say in regards to the Crystal product line: “Ledil experienced some difficulty in manufacturing the optics. Now the tooling is in process being transferred to a different facility which is adequately equipped to mold such a big optics. I shall keep you posted once I have more definite schedule.”

I’ll update this thread when I know more.

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sweet, thanks for the leg work fp!

phantom23
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Of course you all know that tighter beam angle doesn’t mean higher spot intensity? 27200 cd/lm means that from 1000 lumens you’ll get 27,2klux/1m. That’s less than C8 with smaller diameter reflector. And there’s something wrong with their specs:

More lux/1m from XP-G than XP-E at the same brightness?

Rufusbduck
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Maybe they have some Chinese engineering interns.
-Edit Oops, that sounds terrible. I formally appologize to all Chinese engineering interns. Maybe they have some Chinese advertising interns.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Rufusbduck
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The mirella only gets to 9 degrees w/xp, 10 w/XML.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

FlashPilot
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Outside of lux meter readings, these might offer more than what is derived from botched performance data. After looking at OL's SRK build threads, Im pretty interested in what a carefully optimized TIR might do in the outdoor environment. I know this is a rough comparison, but it does illustrate a point. From Old-Lumens SRK build threads:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/27287

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19750

Mouse out: SRK with stock reflector

Mouse in: SRK with FT 20mm 15-Degree Optical Lens

Rufusbduck
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I think a large tir has the drawback of lower efficiency than a reflector due to absorbtion of energy but a potential offsetting benefit is the ability to achieve a tighter focus in a shorter depth leaving more room for heatsinking, drivers, etc. Also, something often forgotten in the comparison between tir optics and reflectors is a reflector still needs a glass lens which adds cost for high transmition or adds to losses if cheap glass is used. Pmma isn’t as durable as glass but even glass gets scratched and pmma can be repolished.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Rufusbduck wrote:
I think a large tir has the drawback of lower efficiency than a reflector due to absorbtion of energy but a potential offsetting benefit is the ability to achieve a tighter focus in a shorter depth leaving more room for heatsinking, drivers, etc.

^^ That.

As I posted in MrsDNF's TIR thread, the FT/IOS 10* part is nearly identical in beam profile to a smooth P60 reflector when using the same LED, but in a much smaller/shorter package.

FlashPilot
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I have an MTE flashlight with a large high quality TIR, and it was useless behind an XML till I swapped in a C8 reflector. Maybe it would dance well with MTG2… another mod trial for a different time.

Lets wait and see what Ledil comes up with. It doesnt make sense that a company like that would go through the expense and trouble of manufacturing a large and comparatively expensive opic when a FT 20mm might do better. But then, who knows what companies will do these days? Fingers crossed that they will perform at least as well as a C8 reflector.

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TIR optics are designed for use in office and household environments. They are used for spot lighting from above. They blend spot to spill just about seamlessly and they make the eye think it's all one smooth beam. The object is not to be super efficient, but to produce a spot in a very short distance, as in a few feet.  The fact that they produce the spot and spill smoothed together within a very short distance, is why they are made. They were never designed for flashlights. They just happen to work for us in some applications.

If you want a thrower, then the best ones will always be an aspheric lens, followed by a mirror finish reflector of a decent diameter. Even "tight" optics will give a widening spot that opens up quickly. I like them because they give a smooth beam, comparable to a stippled or OP reflector and that's just my preference. I also like them because they do that with a very short optic, which translates to more modding opportunities, due to less room needed.

As far as molding them, it sounds like they tried to run them in a molding machine with too low a tonnage and the clamp couldn't stay closed during the injection process, blowing the mold open, or the barrel was too small and there wasn't enough shot size to fill the mold correctly. I imagine they are still a month or so away from any real production. The next shop will have to develop a process and submit samples for spec, before they can run production.

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FlashPilot
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Thanks for your expert opinion OL. I just revisited my 42mm TIR and compared it again to the FT 20mm. As others just pointed out, the thickness of the plastic definitely has a huge impact on cutting lumens WAY down. Looking at the mechanical drawings of the C12916_CRYSTAL-RS, there is an 8.2mm cavity above the emitter mounting location, so the emitter must still penetrate 19.2mm of plastic before photons escape through the font of the lens. Unless Ledil came up with an optically superior transparent plastic, the Crystal is probably intended for aesthetics for indoor lighting; as you had pointed out.

The Idea was to mount 32 of these in a DIY light bar, with holes drilled though 50” × 5” black plexi sheet to center them. Then I wouldnt have to have a clear plexi lens over the array (that would cut lumens). Oh well, I’ll give one a try once they’re available and report back.

Id love to run 16 HD2010 reflectors + 16 Ledil Boom reflectors. To bad we cant find a source for the 2010’s. The DX SST90 reflector is still a contender, but Id need to stagger them in a small arc to make the best use of 16 beams from that section of the array and that still might be a bit to focused to be of any use while wheel’in.

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That DX SST90 reflector is the best MTG-2 reflector I’ve come across for creating a hot spot.

 

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FlashPilot
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MRsDNF wrote:
That DX SST90 reflector is the best MTG-2 reflector I’ve come across for creating a hot spot.
Its supposed to be killer with the XML as well. I wonder if it would focus to tight a beam to be useful for an offroad pickup. Do you have any ideas? There would be 16 in the array. I could probably shim them slightly left and right to cast an arc rather than just one mega bright useless culminated spot, but that still might not be enough.
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I wonder if that DX reflector does a better job focusing the MT-G2 into a hot spot than the Solarforce M8 hybrid reflector, or the Solarforce S2200 OP reflector, still trying to find a reflector from a S1100 for the mirror finish to use in my S2200. Solarforce won’t sell an S1100 reflector as a stand alone unit.

I’ll gladly try this DX one though, even if it’s smaller. (which it is) JB Weld stick is wonderful for making adapters. Wink

FlashPilot
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Its $160 for the DX reflectors so Id like to know more about them before I buy. Thanks for the JB Weld stick idea. I was thinking about using pvc tube for a support ring with JB weld epoxy, but the stick sounds even better.

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The stick is easy, comes in a roll like a jelly roll, cut off an approximate amount and knead it to mix the 2 parts…since it stays like a putty it’s pretty easy to put in place and shape, a wet finger helps smooth it down and keeps it from sticking. I like using the Water Weld, it’s white though. But it sets up fast. It’s my next go-to in a light over the expensive Arctic Alumina Thermal Compound, which I like to use when potting.

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