Nitefire NFT-90 9x XM-L Light - Need help with the driver

23 posts / 0 new
Last post
Tom_182
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 03:44
Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Nitefire NFT-90 9x XM-L Light - Need help with the driver

Hey Guys,

i bought one of those multi emitter lights. I think it doesn´t really reach what it could but it´s ok. Now i´m thinking about modding it. It has a “next-mode-memory” which is an absolut no-go. Maybe someone can help me with a new driver or in modding this driver so it gets mode memory. Also i would like to know if it is possible to get a little more output. It drains 3,2A with 3 18650´s at the tailcap.

Hope someone can help…

Thanks in advance,
Tom

Tom_182
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 03:44
Posts: 161
Location: Germany

The head

The driver

The driver

Livinloud
Livinloud's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 1 week ago
Joined: 06/03/2013 - 21:03
Posts: 1268
Location: Mass
Tom_182 wrote:

The head

The driver

The driver

AWESOME!

LPF Member: Livinloud
Budget flashlight enthusiast turned into lumen freak

unknown00101
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Joined: 08/16/2013 - 11:53
Posts: 4344
Location: USA
Livinloud wrote:
Tom_182 wrote:

The head

The driver

The driver

AWESOME!

Am I missing something, or is nothing showing up for you as well?

It looks like Tom is trying to link to a file on his SD card? I don’t think you can do that on this particular forum.

Livinloud
Livinloud's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 1 week ago
Joined: 06/03/2013 - 21:03
Posts: 1268
Location: Mass

It doesn’t show up either, hence the super sarcasm

LPF Member: Livinloud
Budget flashlight enthusiast turned into lumen freak

leaftye
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 07/25/2012 - 17:43
Posts: 4278
Location: San Diego, CA

Upload the pictures to a website. www.imgur.com is perfect for this.  Then come back here and click on the picture icon between the button that looks like an anchor and the button that looks like an eraser.

The low mode should be lower.

Tom_182
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 03:44
Posts: 161
Location: Germany

Yes…. haha…. let´s laugh about the dumb guy who cannot post pictures here. Wink I´m trying this again this evening, ok?! Then we can go on here. Smile

So long,
Tom

Tom_182
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 03:44
Posts: 161
Location: Germany

So, i try it again. This time including the pictures.

So this is the flashlight:
https://dx.com/p/nitefire-nft-90-9-x-cree-xm-l-t6-4500lm-5-mode-memory-w...

This is the head without reflector:

This is the driver:

And from the other side:

So if somebody can help me with my issue i would be very happy! Wink

Thanks so far…
Tom

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 14994
Location: LI NY

Hhmm, those are actually XM-L2's, not XML's. Think others know a lot more bout drivers than I do, but the lack of a tyroid has me confused. The host is nice because it's a bigger head than a J18, but other than that, similar. The emitters may be parallel perhaps with that custom MCPCB the emitters are mounted in.

Dunno - if you need to keep the stock MCPCB, then have to go serial or parallel, depending on the MCPCB. For serial, could use the KD 7 or 9 LED driver. All depends - can you measure tailcap amps to see how much it's cvurrently drawing? That would tell us about how much power it's driving now.

Tom_182
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 03:44
Posts: 161
Location: Germany

Hi Tom,

with 3 18650 Xtar 2600mAh i measured about 3,2A at the tailcap on high mode. The same with 3 18650 Solarforce black. I´m still waiting on my 26650´s i ordered.

It seems the emitters are wired in 3S3P. I tried to show that in this picture:

Well it´s quite hard to see the wiring of the LED´s on this PCB.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 14994
Location: LI NY

Ok - 3S3P explains a lot - it's not buck or boost, may be direct drive - 12V in, 12V out. It sort of looks like a East-092 driver. 3.2A tail means about 1A per LED, which is probably typical for these stock lights. Wonder if you would get significantly higher readings/output on good low resistance cells. Could try copper braiding both springs and see if it goes up as well. Not familair with XTAR cells, but you are definitely better off using quality 26650's in a light like this. Can you measure the width of the driver board? Looks like it may be a 17mm, but odd for a driver to be that small in a light of this size. The driver size will limit your choices, maybe...

Tom_182
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 03:44
Posts: 161
Location: Germany

The driver board has about 24mm. Most important thing for me would be the mode memory. A little bit more light would be nice too but i don´t know how difficult it will be to handle the heat. Maybe someone here has an idea if i can get a memory function to this stock driver an maybe a little bit more output??

Thanks and regards,
Tom

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 14994
Location: LI NY

Well, you could use the LCK-LED driver here: http://www.lck-led.com/5000ma-driver-modes-p-935.html?cPath=37_135. I've used it with 3S cells, and 3S LED's, and use the stock driver as a contact board to mount it, but it would probably go into direct drive mode. Also, this driver may work: http://www.lck-led.com/24mm-3000ma-driver-modes-p-936.html?cPath=37_135, though haven't used it, but the 3A it puts out will be shared between 3 emitters, so, back to 1A per emitter, maybe little less. They are saying in the driver description the resistors can be modded to increase current. up to 5A -- but I have no experience with this specific driver. In theory it should work in 3S3P as if there were only 3 LED's.

Hope someone else can jump in to confirm, maybe comfychair or RacerR86...

GBD
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 2 months ago
Joined: 07/11/2013 - 18:37
Posts: 39
Location: Norway

I have modded a couple of these lights. Great cooling capabilities after some small mods!
Before I changed emitters to 9s, I tried a 9 amp 3 mode “driver for bike lights” from KD. Being a buck driver, it does not regulate
using three cells, but from fully charged unprotected TF “flames”, I measured 7amps initually, ramping down to 5 after a few minutes. I did not measure led currant using three cells, but using four cells and two extensions, I measured 8.5 amps forward currant
being around 2.8 amps to each emitter. Driver efficiency is rather low, though, so you have to heatsink it well.
BTW output was quite impressive both ways Wink

Tom_182
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 03:44
Posts: 161
Location: Germany

Well that does not really help me until now. As you can see in the pictures it´s impossible for me to change the wiring of the emitters. So the 9x XM-L driver is no use. I also could live with the stock driver if i could get this friggin´ thing to remember the mode.

Pls help…. Wink

leaftye
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 07/25/2012 - 17:43
Posts: 4278
Location: San Diego, CA

I wonder if swapping sense resistors would help.  I think that's R9.  Maybe R10 and R11 too.  Don't do it on my account though.  Hopefully one of the driver savvy members will chime in.  At some point it'll help a lot to rebond those emitters to Noctigon or Sinkpad stars.

The low mode should be lower.

Tom_182
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 03:44
Posts: 161
Location: Germany

I have some news. Yesterday i received my Soshine 26650. Today i tried the Nitefire with these batteries. Well it´s impressive. Over 5,2A at the tailcap. But here is the next problem the light only works with the Multimeter. If i screw on the tailcap the battery protection kicks in on high mode…. Sad

leaftye
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 07/25/2012 - 17:43
Posts: 4278
Location: San Diego, CA

Have you upgraded the leads on your multimeter?  I'm thinking those leads are limiting the current and that the light can handle much more.  Those batteries trip at 7.9A.

The low mode should be lower.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 14994
Location: LI NY

For your next mode memory problem, I see one cap on that driver board, and thinking it may be the cause. If you leave the light off for like 30 minutes, does it still come on in the next mode? How about over night? If not, then there's probably a cap draining slowly over time, then once it's drained, the light will reset and come back on in your first mode, not next mode. I'm no expert at this "next mode memory" fix'ing either, but guys have been saying that and I know with some light drivers like the Jacbo A60, it did work. I seem to recall you could power-up the light, power it down, ground out the cap by using a screwdriver or something to ground one end to the other end, then try powering up and see if it comes up in the 1st mode. If so, then you know the cap is the cause -- to fix it, not sure best solution. Many times, you can use a resistor soldered across it Not sure offhand what value, or if it varies, what's safest, etc....

Wish more driver guys would chime in....

If there's a fix for the cap, then it's possible to force the light to come up in the 1st mode every time, which is much better than next mode.

For the power, typically these lights stock would be driven like 1 to maybe 1.5A per emitter tops, so from there, guessing 3 to 4.5A, to maybe 5-5.5A with loss's. From what you are describing, it's sort of pointing to that your DMM has a lot of resistance, so reading artifically lower and able to run on high. With the tailcap on, you are getting even higher amps. This amount of amps sounds crazy for a stock light like this - haven't heard of a direct drive "high # of LED's" light, just haven't seen it, and would be scary if it existed. Maybe there's something wrong with your piece, or just a really poor, dangerous designed light. That driver does look awfully simple.... It's scary to me....

GBD
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 2 months ago
Joined: 07/11/2013 - 18:37
Posts: 39
Location: Norway
Tom_182 wrote:
I have some news. Yesterday i received my Soshine 26650. Today i tried the Nitefire with these batteries. Well it´s impressive. Over 5,2A at the tailcap. But here is the next problem the light only works with the Multimeter. If i screw on the tailcap the battery protection kicks in on high mode…. Sad

In one of my samples, I had to shorten the plunger in the tailcap to stop long batteries from pushing the tailcap board out of ground contact. Maybe worth investigating?

GBD
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 2 months ago
Joined: 07/11/2013 - 18:37
Posts: 39
Location: Norway
Tom E wrote:

For your next mode memory problem, I see one cap on that driver board, and thinking it may be the cause. If you leave the light off for like 30 minutes, does it still come on in the next mode? How about over night? If not, then there’s probably a cap draining slowly over time, then once it’s drained, the light will reset and come back on in your first mode, not next mode. I’m no expert at this “next mode memory” fix’ing either, but guys have been saying that and I know with some light drivers like the Jacbo A60, it did work. I seem to recall you could power-up the light, power it down, ground out the cap by using a screwdriver or something to ground one end to the other end, then try powering up and see if it comes up in the 1st mode. If so, then you know the cap is the cause — to fix it, not sure best solution. Many times, you can use a resistor soldered across it Not sure offhand what value, or if it varies, what’s safest, etc….

Wish more driver guys would chime in….

If there’s a fix for the cap, then it’s possible to force the light to come up in the 1st mode every time, which is much better than next mode.

For the power, typically these lights stock would be driven like 1 to maybe 1.5A per emitter tops, so from there, guessing 3 to 4.5A, to maybe 5-5.5A with loss’s. From what you are describing, it’s sort of pointing to that your DMM has a lot of resistance, so reading artifically lower and able to run on high. With the tailcap on, you are getting even higher amps. This amount of amps sounds crazy for a stock light like this – haven’t heard of a direct drive “high # of LED’s” light, just haven’t seen it, and would be scary if it existed. Maybe there’s something wrong with your piece, or just a really poor, dangerous designed light. That driver does look awfully simple…. It’s scary to me….

The stock driver in one of my lights pulled 6.7A from fresh u.p.TFs, but died soon, the other would not pull more than 5.8A from same batteries. That is why I tried the 9A buck driver, to replace the dead one.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 14994
Location: LI NY

Wow GBD - sounds a bit scary. Inconsistencies, and dangerous ones at that. Chances are the light was not designed in it's stock form to run that high, so the driver dying isn't surprising.

Tom_182
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 11/22/2012 - 03:44
Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Quote:
haven’t heard of a direct drive “high # of LED’s” light, just haven’t seen it, and would be scary if it existed

Well here you are. This thing is sick. It´s possible that i could not meassure higher currents because of my DMM´s wires. More it more i understand why it is obviously designed for unprotected batteries. With protected batteries you can´t screw the tailcap on completely. Even shorter Flat-Tops don´t fit. So with unprotected cells i think this thing is a killer. The only thing is i´m a bit afraid of unprotected batteries. Especially three of them in series…. :~
Another thing is how long it will last….

Quote:
For your next mode memory problem, I see one cap on that driver board, and thinking it may be the cause. If you leave the light off for like 30 minutes, does it still come on in the next mode? How about over night? If not, then there’s probably a cap draining slowly over time, then once it’s drained, the light will reset and come back on in your first mode, not next mode. I’m no expert at this “next mode memory” fix’ing either, but guys have been saying that and I know with some light drivers like the Jacbo A60, it did work. I seem to recall you could power-up the light, power it down, ground out the cap by using a screwdriver or something to ground one end to the other end, then try powering up and see if it comes up in the 1st mode. If so, then you know the cap is the cause — to fix it, not sure best solution. Many times, you can use a resistor soldered across it Not sure offhand what value, or if it varies, what’s safest, etc….

That sounds interesting but it doesn´t matter if i take out the batteries for a longer time or not. The light always turns on in the next mode… :Sp