Toroids and MOSFETs and firmware, oh my! (aka:'Tiny13+N-FET=???')

247 posts / 0 new
Last post
Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

This trick could be done for a lot drivers to get any modes we want. Sounds good, heh?
Not only eswitch drivers, we could also wire a standard nanjg firmware in a light with a normal switch driver. I always wanted to try the 3T6 driver…
But anyway to get a direct drive driver we could also just make a driver board which hosts one big FET and a Tiny13, this could be put in every light we want.

But I like the idea of eswitch lights because they don’t need a crappy switch which will steal voltage and the srk lights are very good, small, bright and long battery life. Just the modes always fucked me up.
——
I tried 3 parallel irlml2502 with one samsung20r and 3 xml2 parallel and got over 10A which killed the FETs in small time. These sot23 are only good for 3A. So I made 4 footprints on the 20mm board. The last time was the 15mm driver with space for two but I doublestacked one. The good thing on the sot23 FETs is they have almost all the same footprint and especially the 2502 is available everywhere for cheap. For single XML, 3 or four would be enough.
—-
@Macie
the good thing on an electronic switch with a microcontroller is the ability of any modes we want.

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

http://75.65.123.78/STB55NF03L.jpg

Bigger package, but it'll fit. Anybody who understands Datasheet Klingon want to take a look at the specs and see if it's worth a try? - http://www.st.com/web/catalog/sense_power/FM100/CL824/SC1164/PF64496

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

It has a low GS threshold so it will have low resistance on the few volts we are using.
Rdson seems low 20mOhm
Input capacitance 1265pF

Give it a try Smile

——-
Please also try a capacitor between VCC and GND!

——-
I have given up on my soic clip RIP, sadly I wasted hours on getting it to work again.
I have soldered cables on a nanjg and tried it which also frustrated me because it was fiddly…

I now measure 250uA on 5V and 120uA at 2.5V on a fully stacked nanjg.

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

I have a capacitor on Vcc! On the 105c. It's moved to the topside of the board though, sits between the bottom pad of R1 & GND, see the first pic at the top of the page.

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

Please try a bigger, spare, additional one.

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

But if it works now, and still works after adding another cap, what will that tell us? :~

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

Please report what works.
I thought you still had problems…

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

The blue single-FET driver works now with a 68 ohm resistor inline with the gate, it didn't work before with either the original 10 ohm resistor or wired direct to the gate with no resistor.

The 3 channel SRK driver I haven't messed with again, that one works but driving one channel at a time only.

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

I just tried the 3T6 driver and it works also. Yippieh!

Just cut the trace of the original PWM signal and soldered the new signal on, all modes work perfect. I tested it with a single xml2 and 4.8V.

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

This is an awesome concept!  I've been lurking in this thread long enough... the Securitying SRK clone REALLY does some awesome output when modded!  I bypassed the resistors and wow!  It popped the protection circuits on my old FT Pana 2900s...  That means over 5 amps drawn from each cell.  I have it pulled apart now and am going to put some 16mm XM-L2s on Noctigons in.  

Having the ability to add better mode selection and have low voltage warning/shutdown would be awesome, and this project would go a long way to easily (and cheaply) providing that to a lot of lights... along with massive current capability without having to stack 30 7135s and have master/slave boards. Cool

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7935
Location: SC

Yeah Werner! Been wanting to try that for some time now.  

Did you just tap into the PWM out (forget which pin on the 105C) prior to the 7135's?

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

Yep. Just connect the Pwm signal to the right spot and bam…
Is the check already in the mail? Wink

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

Wire for the PWM-out:

http://75.65.123.78/Dsc06964.jpg

None of my big pile of salvaged FETs will do anything close to what the one on the Securitying driver does. That thing is nuts.

This setup does a little under 10 amps...

http://75.65.123.78/Dsc06998.jpg

It'll be used with the 3-up parts from one of the Securitying lights, and the Securitying awesome-driver will get the same treatment and will be used with the 6-up parts from the no-name 6XL2. Shocked

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

http://75.65.123.78/Dsc07005.jpg

Shocked

http://75.65.123.78/Dsc07008.jpg

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

I see that massive capacitor! Sealed

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

The K4212 runs awesome straight from the attiny, no resistor inline, no pulldown resistor. I gotta order a batch of those things, they RAWK!

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

I have room for a fairly beefy toroid, should I add one between BAT+ & LED+? Would it help or hurt or do nothing?

Ledsmoke
Ledsmoke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 08/08/2011 - 16:05
Posts: 1995
Location: Denmark

This is one of those cool threads that hardly anyone comments on but many follow. Thank you for keeping at it and updating us all. 

~ Ledsmoke ~

Dutch humor:

[quote=djozz]

 I do not think that the BLF-community ben

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

Another option for firmware: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/28443

ImA4Wheelr
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 02/03/2013 - 14:51
Posts: 7935
Location: SC

Some real cool work you're doing here Comfy. 

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

This is all Werner's fault, I'm just the mechanic (as usual) sticking parts together at random until something works.

His UI is just brilliant. Mode order is 0>1>2>3>4>5>0>[repeat]. But, the trick part is a short press goes forward thru the order, and a long press goes in reverse. So, from off, a short press gives you mode1, and a long press turns off. Or, from off, a long press turns on in mode5, and a short press turns off.

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

http://75.65.123.78/srk3.jpg

This one is probably not going to work with the add-on 105c. I've removed the gate drivers, going to try connecting straight to the FET's gates, but I'm going to predict it won't work. FETs are AO4468s, specs don't look great based on my limited understanding of things, which is probably why the design is so complex with the separate gate drivers and all the rest; though, why didn't they just use a FET that was a better fit? Who knows.

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

I've never ordered thru aliexpress before, does this look legit? Change quantity to 100 and check the updated total...

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2SK4212-K4212-TO-252/1567621605.html

Here's the search results page, check out the crazy range of prices: http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=2SK4212&catId=&initiative...

:~

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

Woohoo, never checked AE for eparts. There are some crazy prices.
I will definitely order some Tinys and some nfets from them.
The FET you found is extremely cheap. I will first go with 10packs of tiny and to220fets I already have so that I can compare.

I also found used FETs, which got disassembled and have still some solder on the legs, lol.

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 week ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

Anyone planning a single board for this? OL was drawing up one for etching with just Attiny parts and lots of 7135 pads but an Oshpark set up for this would be great.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

How about a 46mm board with a tiny13 and three of those 2SK4212s? Shocked

And a single FET 17mm version?

Include the 105c's stars for compatibility with clicky switches and other firmwares.

I don't know squat about PCB layout though. Somebody else would have to do it... but the parts to make it work have already been sorted out.

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 week ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

A Mag D tube is~34 mm ID and the 52mm Fastech reflector base is 26mm so my vote would be for <32mm ( ideal sizes 28.5mm, 26.5mm, 20.5mm)which would leave plenty of room for the chips, stars, and extra pads for momentary switch.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

Never thought of three of these big FETs, in my eyes the advantages are not big enough…just to save some millivolts…

I ordered a 20mm PCB with space for tiny13A and some other neat things like space for a zenerdiode or the off time checking parts.
It features the nanjg layout so firmwares are compatible. No 7135 but space for some sot23 nfets or a TO220Fet( IRL3803). Along with two pads for an eswitch…
4 parallel sot23 FETs are good for 12A and have around 12mOhm so they work perfect in single cell lights, there are even better ones available but I am a budget guy…
The IRL3803 is a beast of transistor and would be suitable for everything we know…
Also we could use bigger resistors for voltage divider to reduce standby current for eswitch es.


There is no need to pay extra for a bigger board which costs 5 times more if you can just add a small PCB on top of the original driver.
I am not sure if the layout is correct because I tried some new things to test, they are already shipped but I guess I will get the the prototypes in a week or so.

45mm*45mm=3squareinch so oshpark would charge 15$ for a batch of three
20×20 cost only 3.1$ for a batch of three…

So basically parts for the whole 20mm board would be around the price the bare 45mm board costs…and the big board would only work in a single type of light because all the big lights are different…
Also you could not assemble a FET and just use the custom firmware with another driver like the 3T6 driver Wink

——
I have a 17mm driver in mind like TiVo did with the zilog but just compatible with nanjg firmware. If the prototype works i will make one, hopefully I can learn something from the 20mm driver so that the new one even is better.

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

I HATE stripping down drivers just to use them as contact boards... :Sp

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Online
Last seen: 9 min 33 sec ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 14915
Location: LI NY

Wow -Werner this sounds awesome. I have all the parts on order for a small run of Tivo's boards. Wish you could go with a Tiny85 though - much more program space, temp monitor, etc. Dunno - how compatible it is though to the 13A.

Pages