~MT-G2~ Pocket Monster (hard way moding SK98) now VIDEO preview

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ghos
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Nice build mtg2 sk98 build!! I like the way you fabricated extra copper for the heatsinking, trust me, this light runs HOT when its zoomed out

For my build, I played cheat and used a bunch of singapore 1 cent coins (made mainly of copper) stacked against the back

Sadly though, it seems to lose a lot of light upon zooming out, probably need larger asperics as the sk98 is still too small, ive moved my mtg2 from the sk98 to a smiling shark sse7 (ultrafire z5 1× 28650 clone), aspheric is now 28mm instead of 20mm

Its a hollow pill, so I filled the entire length of with thermal paste and stacks of 1 cent coins Big Smile

It seems to throw slightly better, have you ever considered shaving the mtg2?

My MTG2 Thrunite T10T Ti “Micro Sunbeam” -> http://www.budgetlightforum.com/node/41059

My MTG2 #@!$ zoomable sk98 pocket rocket -> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/27089

My SK98 Triple Nichia 219 92cri-> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/27590

PH_Oton
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ghos wrote:
Nice build mtg2 sk98 build!! I like the way you fabricated extra copper for the heatsinking, trust me, this light runs HOT when its zoomed out

For my build, I played cheat and used a bunch of singapore 1 cent coins (made mainly of copper) stacked against the back

Sadly though, it seems to lose a lot of light upon zooming out, probably need larger asperics as the sk98 is still too small, ive moved my mtg2 from the sk98 to a smiling shark sse7 (ultrafire z5 1× 28650 clone), aspheric is now 28mm instead of 20mm

Its a hollow pill, so I filled the entire length of with thermal paste and stacks of 1 cent coins Big Smile

It seems to throw slightly better, have you ever considered shaving the mtg2?

Thanks Smile
I saw your topic, good work. I would only replace/modify switch because stock has relatively high resistance and over the time resistance will increase. My idea of building MT-G2 pocket zoomie was only massive flood so I have no need for shaving or dedoming . To me, zooming is just an option if I need a bit of extra throw. For pocket thrower I have sk98 with dedomed XP-G2 which was before dedomed XM-L2 and in the near future it will be dedomed XP-E2 for max range. About sse7… I saw how xm-l looks under 28mm aspheric. It just looks like it have more throw but that is just illusion because lens has longer focal length (even more light is wasted) thus spot looks smaller. For best light efficiency host had to be reflector based with AR lens (something like convoy S series with SMO lens for truly pocketable lumen monster).

ghos
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Yeah can’t compare with an XP-G2 or E2.. Maybe using special optical lenses? (Ahortons?)

I guess there’s not one light that can do all, I tried putting it into a convoy m2 before, it had great hotspot, but i still prefer the versatility of zoom aspheric hosts.. still, even with 20%~ or so loss having 2000+ lumens in a small package still isn’t really a bad thing Smile

My MTG2 Thrunite T10T Ti “Micro Sunbeam” -> http://www.budgetlightforum.com/node/41059

My MTG2 #@!$ zoomable sk98 pocket rocket -> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/27089

My SK98 Triple Nichia 219 92cri-> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/27590

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I’m becoming a big fan of dedomed XPG2 in small aspherics…. reasonable flood with great throw.

XML2 or MTG2 in aspherics… not as much. You get great flood with the option to goto spot mode for some slight additional throw when needed. It’s a reasonable compromise, but you’d never carry a light like that for throw.

ghos
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Firelight2 wrote:
I’m becoming a big fan of dedomed XPG2 in small aspherics…. reasonable flood with great throw.

XML2 or MTG2 in aspherics… not as much. You get great flood with the option to goto spot mode for some slight additional throw when needed. It’s a reasonable compromise, but you’d never carry a light like that for throw.

Yeah i agree too.. i dedomed a xpe from a random light lying around and put it into an SK98, surprisingly it threw really well, the beam is pencil thin and it flew pretty far, and when un-zoomed it floods reasonably well..

My MTG2 Thrunite T10T Ti “Micro Sunbeam” -> http://www.budgetlightforum.com/node/41059

My MTG2 #@!$ zoomable sk98 pocket rocket -> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/27089

My SK98 Triple Nichia 219 92cri-> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/27590

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ghos wrote:
Yeah can’t compare with an XP-G2 or E2.. Maybe using special optical lenses? (Ahortons?)

I guess there’s not one light that can do all, I tried putting it into a convoy m2 before, it had great hotspot, but i still prefer the versatility of zoom aspheric hosts.. still, even with 20%~ or so loss having 2000+ lumens in a small package still isn’t really a bad thing Smile

You can always unscrew lens and have 100% light efficency :bigsmile:

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ghos wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
I’m becoming a big fan of dedomed XPG2 in small aspherics…. reasonable flood with great throw.

XML2 or MTG2 in aspherics… not as much. You get great flood with the option to goto spot mode for some slight additional throw when needed. It’s a reasonable compromise, but you’d never carry a light like that for throw.

Yeah i agree too.. i dedomed a xpe from a random light lying around and put it into an SK98, surprisingly it threw really well, the beam is pencil thin and it flew pretty far, and when un-zoomed it floods reasonably well..

I have a domed XPE2 on hand. I’m not using it because the dedomed XPG2s I was playing with have better throw.

I guess I might as well dedome the XPE2 and see how it is. Now that I’ve got the hang of dedoming shouldn’t be hard to do.

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can you please put your video on you tube and post a link to it.
so that i can see it. thanks, i can’t see it here
great work…

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Both of the vids are posted…wonder why you can’t see em

Here is the first video in the OP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_-g_gh8CP4

Fritz t. Cat
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I feel I am missing the explanation of how you are giving it enough current to need the copper heat transfer parts. From the Cree site, 3 A at 6 V. There doesn’t seem to be enough 7135s and maybe not enough batteries for that.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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Fritz t. Cat wrote:
I feel I am missing the explanation of how you are giving it enough current to need the copper heat transfer parts. From the Cree site, 3 A at 6 V. There doesn’t seem to be enough 7135s and maybe not enough batteries for that.
Um..it’s still making ALOT of heat the MT-G2 emitter is what 2×-3X the size of the XM-L and the SK98 just doesn’t have alot of meat to absorb all that heat…copper will pull it away, and then dump it into the aluminum pill, aluminum pill to body, and all it can do at that point is just get hotter and hotter and hotter, these flashlights just don’t have the mass or surface area to convection that heat away…unless you consider the palm of your hand a good heatsink

If you look, he has stacked 18350’s, pushing 8.4v at full charge, thru the regulator (this is why he put the voltage divider 200ohm resistor and zener as to not smoke the ATtiny13)

Per the MT-G2 spec sheet:
The thermal resistance of the MT-G2 LED is 1.5 °C/W, so at 18.5 W the junction temperature (TJ) will be approximately 82 °C

6v at 3A is 18 watts…so he has 179.6F worth of heat in his hand…that is plenty hot to make me want to drop something that hot pretty quick

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I am still missing something about how the MT-G2 is driven to its rated current, or why an SK-98 can’t handle less than that.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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Fritz t. Cat wrote:
I am still missing something about how the MT-G2 is driven to its rated current, or why an SK-98 can’t handle less than that.

It is overdriven with total of 12 AMC 7135 rated to 350mA each. Theoretically they should give mi 4.2A on high but I’m reading 4.48-4.52A. 7135s basically don’t ask for voltage as long as emitters Vf is close to input voltage. In this case 8.4v and under load input voltage drops under 7V so 7135s doesn’t need dissipate more than few hundreds miliamps. Copper is added for keeping led performance for longer period…

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PH_Oton wrote:
Fritz t. Cat wrote:
I am still missing something about how the MT-G2 is driven to its rated current, or why an SK-98 can’t handle less than that.

It is overdriven with total of 12 AMC 7135 rated to 350mA each. Theoretically they should give mi 4.2A on high but I’m reading 4.48-4.52A. 7135s basically don’t ask for voltage as long as emitters Vf is close to input voltage. In this case 8.4v and under load input voltage drops under 7V so 7135s doesn’t need dissipate more than few hundreds miliamps. Copper is added for keeping led performance for longer period…


Ok. Thanks. Somewhere above I missed four of the 7135s.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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WarHawk-AVG wrote:

Per the MT-G2 spec sheet:
The thermal resistance of the MT-G2 LED is 1.5 °C/W, so at 18.5 W the junction temperature (TJ) will be approximately 82 °C

6v at 3A is 18 watts…so he has 179.6F worth of heat in his hand…that is plenty hot to make me want to drop something that hot pretty quick

That explains so much, I am so glad you wrote that concise chunk of data. I can really use it. Thanks.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

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Nice explanation on the heat issue WarHawk.  I need to remember how to do that.

I think many of us here build/mod our lights to have high modes way beyond what the host can handle continuously.  I like to have the ability to blast out light if needed.  I usually only need high for a second or two.  Lows are the best modes for me as I like to see outside of the spill with my remaining night vision.  So a light like this is what I strive for.  Unfortunately, you can't give/.sell these types of lights to anyone but fellow flashaholics.  Well, you shouldn't, that is.

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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Nice explanation on the heat issue WarHawk.  I need to remember how to do that.

I think many of us here build/mod our lights to have high modes way beyond what the host can handle continuously.  I like to have the ability to blast out light if needed.  I usually only need high for a second or two.  Lows are the best modes for me as I like to see outside of the spill with my remaining night vision.  So a light like this is what I strive for.  Unfortunately, you can’t give/.sell these types of lights to anyone but fellow flashaholics.  Well, you shouldn’t, that is.

Hahah yeah… gotta love the blast of absurd light some of these tiny modded lights can do.

My modded Sunwayman C20Cs, one with 3 amp MTG2 and the other with Comfychair FET mod and triple XPG2 emit so much light that if you hold the lens against your hand and turn them to max, your skin feels burning hot after just a few seconds. It’s fun… but could be awkward if it turns on accidentally in your pocket.

The MTG2 makes me especially nervous…. 15 minute runtime at max power, no automatic stepdown, can probably set pants on fire from either the beam or how hot the head will get. And to top it off as a 2-cell li-ion light in series it could explode if run too long if one cell depletes faster and then gets reverse charged by the other.

I’d planned to make an alternate driver for the MTG2 using Comfychair’s FET mod + zener diode + DrJones Lumodrv…. but I’m thining I’ll hold off on that. This host might be just a tad too small.

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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Nice explanation on the heat issue WarHawk.  I need to remember how to do that.

I think many of us here build/mod our lights to have high modes way beyond what the host can handle continuously.  I like to have the ability to blast out light if needed.  I usually only need high for a second or two.  Lows are the best modes for me as I like to see outside of the spill with my remaining night vision.  So a light like this is what I strive for.  Unfortunately, you can’t give/.sell these types of lights to anyone but fellow flashaholics.  Well, you shouldn’t, that is.

Well it’s a cross between my two hobbies, flashlights and vaping [nothing new really and it’s really basic electronics math]…vaping we deal with watts or heat energy, pulling volts and current thru a teeny wire, flashlights..same critter but we are concerned with pulling volts and current thru a light emitting diode (yeah it generates light rather than heat UNTIL you start pushing it WAY over it’s rated current limits) and we really don’t concern ourselves with watts…till you start pushing em REAALY hard, then you have to take into consideration where all that heat energy is going to go and figuring out the most effective way to move it away from the emitter because heat + LED = very very bad

Simple electronic math…but now we know why when you push a emitter rated for 3A max…why the thing gets more heat out than light, and things get rather warm…fast Wink

This is also why I really like the STAR V1.1 firmware automatic throttle…you have a 2 min wide open blast out the light/heat turbo [it is configurable as well]…but then it automatically steps back to approx 50% PWM…effectively halving the original heat pumping blast of light, but the beautiful thing about cree is they are MORE efficient at lower power levels…so even cutting the power by 1/2 doesn’t reduce the output of the light we see by half…but it does chop the heat

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Few days ago I was going back home from night ride with my bicycle in 2 am and I stopped by on local skate park to light a cigarette and play with mt-g2 sk98 a bit. Two minutes later crim police came to frisk me. I presume that they thought that I was waiting somebody for drug delivery or vice versa. After frisking and 10min of shining around with his 9led flashlight in order to find if I dropped something on the ground policeman asked me what’s that flashlight that I have. Luckily, last mode used was high :bigsmile:. After turning it on suddenly the child was awakened in him, he was absolutely blown away by the sheer output that was coming out from such a small flashlight and keep playing with it for couple minutes till his hand starts burning .After few minute chat they let me go. Two days later I was going to patrol station for cigarette tubes at 2:30am and on the way back traffic police stopped me ( nooo not again Flat Stare ). They were wondering what am I doing in the middle of the night with backpack. I showed them package of cigarette tubes and showed them store receipt. One of them asked me what am I doing in free time and I showed him my mt-g2 sk98. The first and only thing he noticed is the brand “ultrafire”. He showed me his ultrafire zoomie from ebay and asked me what is special about mine and I told hem that it’s full custom light and that I mod them in in free time. In his mind there is no way that flashlight that is smaller can be brighter than his bigger one. He turned on his and then turned on mine to compare. Last mode this time was low and his reaction was: “mine is a bit brighter, your’s not bad for its size “. I told him that it’s on the lowest mode and that it can change mode by halfpressing the switch and only first time fast double halfpress… He was surprised with power and I saw jealousy in his eyes . “What batteries are in yours? Mines are empty “ he said to me. I said him: “unscrew the tailcap and check it out”. He saw two cells and thought that that’s the reason why is mine so much brighter than his. He started unscrewing his tailcap, took out his “empty GTL 5000mAh” cell and started putting in my two cells in. “No no no no, you will burn your light “ I said to him. He didn’t believe me and continued. I told him that I’ve warned him and that I’m not responsible for the failure. One big flash and his driver was dead, probably emitter too :bigsmile: . Big disappointment :_( … I said him that I can repair his flashlight because I have spare parts. His ego was wounded, he couldn’t accept my offer. After some chat he let me go home. I laugh all the way to home, what a night… :bigsmile:

MOD UPDATE: High was too low, low was to high J) . Yesterday I took some measurements and saw that I have spare room for four more AMC7135s on the battery side of driver. I stacked two 380mA chips from Qlite driver and replaced nanjg MCU with Qlite MCU. Moonlight mod on mt-g2 and 5 amps on high with well spaced mods in between. Now I am satisfied Smile .

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Stellar mod! I’m jealous with your skills. Flat Stare 5A now? Must be very hot.

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harry218 wrote:
Stellar mod! I’m jealous with your skills. Flat Stare 5A now? Must be very hot.

Thx! My skills are very limited but I learn relatively fast. And yeah… BAH, HAH (bright as hell, hot as hell Silly )
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PH_Oton, that is great to hear.  Sounds quite sweet.  Getting stopped and searched by cops for no apparent reason is a bit unnerving.  Great stories.  Thanks for sharing them.

 

WarHawk wrote:

Per the MT-G2 spec sheet:
The thermal resistance of the MT-G2 LED is 1.5 °C/W, so at 18.5 W the junction temperature (TJ) will be approximately 82 °C

I guess I didn't look close enough last time.  Will you please tell me how you get to 82°C?  I'm assuming you factor in ambient temp, but I would figure that would be no more than 30°C additional at room temp.

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Of course being out a lot at night makes you get stopped and also makes you like flashlights. Nice story.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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I am not clear on how many 7135s you were able to fit in.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

PH_Oton, that is great to hear.  Sounds quite sweet.  Getting stopped and searched by cops for no apparent reason is a bit unnerving.  Great stories.  Thanks for sharing them.

 

WarHawk wrote:

Per the MT-G2 spec sheet:
The thermal resistance of the MT-G2 LED is 1.5 °C/W, so at 18.5 W the junction temperature (TJ) will be approximately 82 °C

I guess I didn’t look close enough last time.  Will you please tell me how you get to 82°C?  I’m assuming you factor in ambient temp, but I would figure that would be no more than 30°C additional at room temp.

Just found the data sheet and went from there…I didn’t factor anything…calculated watts and temperature per watt, not scientific in any way.

My math could also be WAY off which it definitely looks that way…DOH

W = A × V

W = 5A X 8V (for stacked batts)

40 = W
So 1.5C/W = 60C…not 82…herp derp

Honestly…looking back at it…I have NO IDEA how I came up with that number… :/

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That is 40 watts if the 5 amps and 8 volts happened at the same time. The batteries have internal resistance, so the voltage drops as the current increases. Maybe 40 W heat, but not 40 W light.
Beautiful work.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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i think you figure the watts the emitter is putting out?

using the voltage forward of the emitter at the amperage you are feeding it… times the amperage (usually a tail cap reading, close enough)

in this manner? an xml emitter, running 3.5 volts at 3 amps… is 3.5 × 3 = 10.5 watts… so, we call that a “10 watt flashlight”

likewise, the run of the mill smaller emitter, getting fed by a 1 amp generic driver? is 3.5 volts x 1 amp = 3.5 watts… so that gets called a “3 watt flashlight”

or i could be wrong about this, wait until someone with more experience confirms or denies it…

With enough black coffee and cigarettes? all things are possible…

I am currently still shipping… REAL GENUINE CREE xp-g emitters, the classic… brace yourself? as low as 20 cents apiece!! Check out the SALES THREAD, everyone is happy… then PM me

SALES THREAD:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/52528

if you are into reloading? this is my site… I inherited the remains of what was once arguably the best reloading site on the internet… its the “BLF” of reloading sites…

http://reloadbench.freeforums.net/

if you think night vision would be cool? It IS… this site i am a member of, and its basically the “BLF” of home made scratch-built digital night vision. They are at the leading forefront of advanced DIY for digital night vision, and thats gun mounted or handheld… builds rival and exceed commercial offerings…

http://nightvisionforumuk.com/

sedstar
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i have a 12 volt driver feeding a 1050ma driver… but the driver is putting out around 3 volts to a small 1 amp rated emitter…

3 volts x 1 amp = 3 watts…

on the logic that you use the battery voltage? i would say my setup was 12 volts (battery) x 1 amp driver = 12 watt light (its not, lol)

With enough black coffee and cigarettes? all things are possible…

I am currently still shipping… REAL GENUINE CREE xp-g emitters, the classic… brace yourself? as low as 20 cents apiece!! Check out the SALES THREAD, everyone is happy… then PM me

SALES THREAD:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/52528

if you are into reloading? this is my site… I inherited the remains of what was once arguably the best reloading site on the internet… its the “BLF” of reloading sites…

http://reloadbench.freeforums.net/

if you think night vision would be cool? It IS… this site i am a member of, and its basically the “BLF” of home made scratch-built digital night vision. They are at the leading forefront of advanced DIY for digital night vision, and thats gun mounted or handheld… builds rival and exceed commercial offerings…

http://nightvisionforumuk.com/

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Fritz t. Cat wrote:
I am not clear on how many 7135s you were able to fit in.

Exactly 16. First I thought I can stack only 4 more on the emitter side of driver but then I realise that I can stack 4 more on the battery side of driver because I’m using button top cells and I have spare room between cell and AMCs .
I will post photo today.

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