Roche F6 hacking

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comfychair
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priest77 wrote:
@comfychair Thanks! I will use the stock switch and the other parts from one Nanj 105C, but can I use this FET: http://kelco.rs/katalog/komponente.php?q=IRLR3103[/quote]

Wow, well... it would probably function, but output would suck. Gate threshold voltage is low enough & total gate charge is OK at the voltages the driver will see, but it's a 16 year old design and the on-resistance is sky high. 0.024 ohms, vs 0.0042 for Vishay 70N02 and 0.0032 for AOD510.

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irlr3103.pdf

ToyKeeper
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FWIW, I’ve got voltage detection and readout working on my Skyray King, and although I still need to do a lot of measurement to determine exact values, I think the code should also translate pretty well to the custom Roche F6 driver.

comfychair
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I can confirm the Roche X3 uses the exact same driver format. Plus, it uses a standard 42x31 C8 reflector, so... side switch C8!

comfychair
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http://75.65.123.78/RocheF6/Img_0113.jpg

 

I built one with these...

http://75.65.123.78/RocheF6/Img_0106.jpg

http://75.65.123.78/RocheF6/Img_0109.jpg

...and every time I switch it on, my first thought is "so this is what 1928 was like." :hat:

It's surprisingly nice outdoors ("90+ CRI"). Indoors, eh... not so much. Sick

WarHawk-AVG
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Whaoh…nice!

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Haha, a 7* tint? That would almost certainly make my eyes hurt. Traditional 100-CRI incandescent bulbs are painful for me because the tint is so warm. I know some people are really fond of that color of light, but not me. If I try to read under incan, it only takes a few minutes before my eyes start rapidly inverting the colors until everything is grey and I can only see contrast lines at the edges of things. Sort of like this:

comfychair
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Yeah it's an outdoor-only tint, at least to me. Indoors it's pretty icky.

The ambient lighting you spend the most time in has an effect on how you perceive it too. I live in a cool white world... ~2900K is a long way off from what my eyes have adapted to and consider 'normal'.

edit: The 7C4 would be really good combined with a 4C & 2B.

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comfychair wrote:
The ambient lighting you spend the most time in has an effect on how you perceive it too. I live in a cool white world… ~2900K is a long way off from what my eyes have adapted to and consider ‘normal’.

When I was little and living with my parents, all the lights were ~2700K incandescents. I basically couldn’t see clearly indoors at night because the tint made my eyes bug out. It wasn’t until I bought myself a fluorescent fixture for my room that I was able to read comfortably at night.

It also occurs to me, just now, that this probably explains a common theme from my dreams at the time. I’d often be trying to see something but the light was too dim and no amount of fiddling with the light switches would fix the situation. Only recently did that change; these days I’m so used to having a light with me that even in dreams I can generally illuminate anything I want.

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comfychair wrote:

Yeah it’s an outdoor-only tint, at least to me. Indoors it’s pretty icky.

The ambient lighting you spend the most time in has an effect on how you perceive it too. I live in a cool white world… ~2900K is a long way off from what my eyes have adapted to and consider ‘normal’.

edit: The 7C4 would be really good combined with a 4C & 2B.

I’ll agree with the indoor outdoor statement. I trial ran this tint in an s6 for a while and actually became fond of it. Just bought another bare emitter to fit into something else (I’m short on hosts at the moment). The original found it’s way into my s2 triple. 2B, 5A1, 7C4. At times it’s almost a bit cool for my taste. Probably coming in around 4700K. It’s very nice and I rotate it and my 5B1 XML2 S6 as my EDC.

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After looking up a couple things in the attiny reference manual and calibrating some voltage values a bit better, I have red+green indicators working in a Roche F6. It’s only a first pass, but this means the “hard” parts are done and now I can play with the interface. Smile

Currently it’s running my SRK code, plus red/green voltage indicators. So, six levels plus “off” with hold-until-desired-level to ramp up and repeated clicking to step down. There’s a semi-hidden battery check mode if you click quickly through all modes and back to off (or ramp up to the first and immediately click to turn it off), which blinks out the following voltage ranges:

  • 0 blinks: < 3.0V (red, and the light will auto step-down)
  • 1 blink: 3.0-3.4V (red)
  • 2 blinks: 3.4-3.7V (yellow)
  • 3 blinks: 3.7-4.0V (green)
  • 4 blinks: 4.0-4.2V (green)
  • 5 blinks: > 4.2V (green)

Oh, and when it’s right at the boundary between two colors, it’ll flicker between them. This is a side effect of the attiny getting slightly different values at each measurement. It seems like a happy side effect though.

I think it works pretty well, but I still have some other interfaces to write for e-switch lights with red/green aux indicators.

wight
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comfychair wrote:

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/KmRivSTO

http://www.digikey.com/short/77p2bz

I don’t think anyone has done a dedicated direct on/off momentary firmware yet; Tom E came up with a hybrid of sorts that works like the normal short press/long press UI until the timer hits 15 seconds, then after that a short press turns off (or something like that). It’s in the STAR firmware thread somewhere.

If all you wanted was single mode it would be easy enough to use STAR momentary with only 0,255 setup in the modes (off and 100%). That would achieve the stated goal but probably isn’t what priest77 meant.

Apparently STAR Momentary 1.4 adds a mode that might do what priest77 is asking for, I don’t have a documentation link but I guess it’s probably discussed somewhere in the 100-post range of 424 through 524 in the STAR Firmware by JonnyC – Source Code and Explanation thread. Here is the direct link to the actual source code for 1.4.

I think a more permanent solution should be easy to implement. That might actually be something I’d like to use. I’ll have to think about it a little bit. Something like:

  • Short press for on/off
  • Long press from “on” to advance modes – with offtime memory ideally.
  • Long press from “off” – special function. Compile time option for: 1. direct high 2. direct low 3. unlock disco modes 4. no action

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

DrJones
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Like mokkadrv? I could implement memory instead of high for a single tap when off. It's not open source though.

wight
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DrJones wrote:

Like mokkadrv? I could implement memory instead of high for a single tap when off. It’s not open source though.

Nice.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

comfychair
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http://75.65.123.78/RocheF6/Img_0253.jpg

http://75.65.123.78/RocheF6/Img_0254.jpg

Still early days... since it has the indicators on at all times, and since this thing pulls 10 or whatever amps on high, it's displaying the voltage under load which may not be all that relevant. Should the indicators only be active in the lowest mode, for a more accurate idea of battery resting voltage?

Right now the color changes happen at 3.7v & 3.4v, I'm unsure where to go from here. If those points are lowered to make it more accurate when using the higher modes, it could fool you when using the lower modes. You could have a green light that changes instantly to red just by moving up a few levels. It will also be affected by the type of cell used, one with more sag under load would give a lower reading even though it still has perfectly fine open circuit voltage. Ideas/suggestions?

Oh, and the STAR low voltage protection stuff is still in there, the indicators are for information only and aren't needed to prevent damage.

edit: And here's both LEDs on at the same time... was supposed to be yellow, but orange works too.

http://75.65.123.78/RocheF6/Img_0257.jpg

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I got a chance to calibrate the voltages better today, and adjust the thresholds down for more even spacing. Now the levels are 3.0V, 3.3V, 3.6V, 3.9V, and 4.2V. And 3.3V, 3.9V, and 4.2V match up with my DMM in real time, so they’re pretty close (at least, on my hardware). The other two aren’t directly tested yet, just approximated based on the other values.

comfychair, I think the reason it looks orange is because the red LED shows through the window a lot more easily than the green LED. It’s just due to placement. A clear, angled plastic extension on the window should make the colors more balanced.

As for showing the real-time voltage sag under load, I’m not convinced it’s a bad thing. It matches what my DMM shows, and makes it obvious that the cell capacity actually changes based on load. I’ve watched a weak cell drop from 3.9V to 3.3V in a matter of seconds while it’s running at maximum on direct drive, and then when the load is gone it quickly goes back up near the original voltage.

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So… I have this Roche F6 w/ Ferrero Rocher DD driver and a triple 219B with 10511 frosted wide-spot floody optic. Made two firmwares/interfaces for it so far; one with fixed levels and one with smooth ramping.

On this hardware, since it’s direct drive with PWM, the overall output is pretty voltage-dependent at all levels. At ~3.6V, the lowest mode is about 1 lumen. At 4.2V, the lowest mode is 3.6 lumens.

The high end is pretty impressive though, for a triple Nichia 219. At 3.6V, it maxes out at 1300 lumens on a 20R cell. But at 4.2V, it starts at 1825 lumens. Granted, it drops fast due to heat… but still. That’s a lot of light for Nichia 219s. I thought I’d be lucky to hit 1500 lumens. And that’s OTF lumens through both a TIR and a lens. The emitter lumens are probably in the range of 2000 to 2200.

This little light is achieving output almost on par with my original Skyray King (before modding), only with neutral white high-CRI output. It’s a beautiful thing.

(BTW, the firmware for this should also work fine on a modded SRK or modded Supfire M6… anything with an attiny13a and an e-switch and lots of power. Or, with some minor tweaks, it should also work on lower-power devices; just needs the lowest levels adjusted.)

comfychair
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I built another one, this time with triple XP-L's. The single XP-L (dedomed) in the stock OP reflector does 27-28 lux ceiling bounce, about equal to what I get with a non-dedomed XM-L2 with a BLF driver. The triple 219B F6 does around 35 lux. Triple XP-L does 73. Seventy three!

A 'SecurityIng' SRK clone with a BLF-SRKDD driver, on four INR 25R's, only does 80 lux. A totally stock CNQG SRK gets utterly trounced at just 43 lux.

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That sounds about right, based on my measurements. My original CNQG SRK (stock) measured at about 2200 lumens, which is only 1.3% different than your measurement. That means the triple-XP-L F6 would be getting somewhere around 3750 to 3850 lumens! (which, BTW, is beyond the range of my light box… I need to build an integrating sphere)

No wonder the cell voltage sags so much on turbo. Smile

comfychair
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FIRE! FIRE!

http://75.65.123.78/RocheF6/Img_0275.jpg

http://75.65.123.78/RocheF6/Img_0277.jpg

http://75.65.123.78/RocheF6/31142249.jpg

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That’s a little scary.

And when I get the triple XP-L and a bit of time, I’m planning to build something that bright in a Cypreus host. Not sure I’d trust a Roche F6 to handle that much heat though; it doesn’t have much thermal mass.

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It’s not scary ‘till it comes on in your pocket. Think of it as a light saber with a focus problem.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

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With the non-ramping UI, if the button gets mashed in a bag or your pocket and stays mashed it just steps down all the way to off and stays there.

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Here is my F6.
Finally it is now the perfect flashlight for me, thanks to @comfychair who helped me a lot with driver, flashing and now with the idea to fill the hole with an 3mm LED that I’ve glued there:

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Out of curiousity, what firmware / UI style are you using?

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Color mixing from the status LEDs works better with the little optical pickup trimmed off flush with the ID of the driver cavity. I used a tiny little ball-end diamond bit, that also leaves a good scuffed-up finish that acts as a diffuser.

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@ToyKeeper
Yes, I am using that one with ramping and it is the perfect one because it also has short press for on/off and memory.

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Okay, I was just wondering… because I didn’t quite finish tweaking the ramping UI before I got interrupted by a work trip, and I haven’t gotten back to it yet. It’s pretty close; just needs some fine tuning on the ramp curve.

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The levels I used in that one linked up above are:

0,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,10,12,14,16,19,23,28,34,41,49,58,68,79,91,103,116,130,145,161,178,196,215,235,255

That pattern, odd as it may be, works surprisingly well - and really well on the SRK-DD boards using the inductor.

comfychair
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The pattern in that one increases each mode over the previous one by:

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 20

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