I am building a new home and plan on using 4” recessed cans throughout as the décor and style is modern (not quite contemporary, but along those lines).
I would really appreciate some help deciding on the type and brand of lighting as my electrician will let me choose whatever I prefer. We have 10’ ceilings on the first floor and a very open floorplan (kitchen + adjacent family room + breakfast area + sunroom are all essentially one big space with partial wall dividers, measuring a total of about 35’ x 40’). Kitchen is about 15’x18, family room is about 18’x18’). So here are my main questions, I appreciate any and all suggestions:
1) Am I being crazy doing 4” cans everywhere, should I be doing 6” in the larger spaces even though I like the appearance of the lighting from 4”?
2) Should I be looking for housings for GU10 or PAR20 bases? My electrician recommends PAR20 because he feels the GU10 get loose over time and then have poor connections. That may be less of an issue now with LED bulbs lasting so long but then again with LED technology changing quickly I can see myself swapping out bulbs even if they haven’t died.
3) Should I be doing Halogen or LED for the ceiling lights in the large spaces?
4) Is 12W (60W equivalent) currently the max available at a reasonable price for the LEDs? I am having a hard time finding anything more than 12W…
5) If 12W if the max then what would be a reasonable spacing for bulbs in a 10’ ceiling? I know that may vary based on bulb angle, but at the same time a wider bulb angle will mean more light dispersion as well. I read somewhere that you should have wattage equal to 1.5x the sq ft of the space, so for a 20 x 35’ space Im looking at close to 1000W, at 60W per bulb that would be approximately 17 bulbs. Right now I have planned 10 for the kitchen (plus pendants but I don’t count those), and 8 for the family room. Technically the family room is larger at 18x18 so maybe I need to bump that up?
6) If you buy X brand housing do you have to use trims from the same company, or are they interchangeable? That may partially guide our decision as well.
Well, I don’t know what your budget is, but if you’re interested in LEDs, the best results are going to come from a recessed kit rather than a bulb—more room for heatsinking, to mix colors, house driving equipment, and the like. EcoSmart (sometimes called Lighting Science I believe) offers a few can retrofits that might be of interest to you. The nice thing about these is they use a standard can housing box…thing.
They have both a 6-inch and a 4-inch available. I’ve installed some in my dad’s home, and they’re really nice. He has the Lutron Maestro CL dimmers, and these bulbs dim beautifully on those switches. Because the chamber mixes light from red and white LEDs, it can adjust the ratio when dimming so the color doesn’t get “weird” the way it does when dimming other kinds of LED bulbs. But they’re expensive. And I get that. I won’t be able to afford anything like this in a home for years and years. But you may be able to get some credits from your power company or local/federal government that could bring the cost down significantly—I know my dad did when he had the roof sprayed with insulating foam. So long story short, I am not the one to ask about financial kickbacks for these expensive bulbs, but there are people who will be able to help you, and that could change the game.
I for one dont like the LED trims, because if you decide to change the light type/pattern, you have to change the entire trim, not just the bulb.
1) You like the appearance of the 4” trim, or the LIGHT from the 4” trims? Because you can get the exact same light from a 6” trim by using the same bulb. It really depends on how much light you want. 6” cans can accept up to PAR38s, which can put out up to 1500 lumens. PAR20s will be closer to 500 lumens.
2) I would definitely go with E27 sockets (PAR20, etc) over GU10, for the same reason I dont like the all in one trims. It gives you options. If you want to change the type of bulb, the light output, the beam pattern, etc, you can.
3) This is pretty subjective. Personally I prefer LED when there are no dimmers involved, and still stick to halogen when there is dimming. Again, if you go with E27 sockets, you can buy different bulbs, try them, and determine what light you like best.
4) Are you talking about PAR20s? Generally speaking LED PARs match equivalent halogens. Halogen PAR20s are generally 50 watts, so most LED PAR20s are 8-10 watts.
5) Sorry I cant help with spacing. I generally eyeball it based on the room.
6) Yes, you are supposed to buy the cans and trims together.
Thank you for the comments. Dspiffy, what would you recommend for a 6 inch housing & trim then if I would like to try out using the Par20 halogens or LEDs? Do the Par20 trims then come with an extension to the bulb to allow for the adjustable trims & gimbal rings? Ive seen them with 5” trims but not really with 6”.
The great thing about using the baffle trims is that it doesnt matter what size bulb you use, it looks OK regardless. Give me some time and I will take some pictures.
One thing I didnt mention: If you are using eyeball trims— i.e. you want to direct the light at the wall rather than straight down— then you’re more limited. 6” eyeball trims are designed for PAR30s and 4” eyeball trims are designed for PAR20s. You can put a PAR20 in a 6” eyeball trim and it wont look BAD, but it might bother the more OCD among us.
Give me some time and I will take some pictures of the various different examples in our building.
Well I guess that’s the problem I want to use a trim that is meant for a GU10 or Par20 bulb, not one that is too large for it. Ive seen some 5” housings that have trims made for the smaller bulbs but not any of the 6” ones… The trims you posted are the ones I have in my current house but Im looking for a more contemporary look with the MR16-shape type bulbs.
I’m not really sure what you mean by more contemporary— most recessed light trims are variations on the types I mentioned. There’s also the plain open trims, which to me look a LOT more dated:
Other than that, the differences are largely size and finish. The smaller cans do look more modern, I suppose.
You might be talking about the gimbal trims, which are basically an eyeball that protrudes less. I typically only see them for the GU/MR type halogen bulbs, but they are also sold for PAR20s (and PAR30s for the 5” can). Most home centers only stock the halogen version. To me they dont look different enough to be worth the difference in cost and hassle.
Sounds like you’re sold on using 4” cans. I would still go with PAR20s over GU10s or MR16s.
Cans aren’t really the best thing for LEDs.
They don’t give much air circulation and too much heat reduces the output from LED lights as well as reducing their life.
So LEDs with a heat sink going up into the roof space are better.
I did a remodel and used Halo 4” cans and Halo 4” LED Nickel Retrofit Baffle Trim fixtures (LED and trim ring combined). They come with the orange LED quick connector and a screw-base adapter if you choose to use old-school cans.
I combined them with digital dimmers and they are AWESOME! Great, natural-looking light, and they dim flawlessly. They are slightly more expensive than the no-name ones, and they come with a 5 year warranty.
Thanks, I ended up ordering a bunch of the BAZZ recessed lights and BAZZ CUBE lights. They are remarkably cheap considering they include both the trim and housing… ended up spending about $3-7 for the new construction housings, $100 for a pack of 10 cans+trims. The only issue is some of the fixtures are PAR20 and others are GU10 so I had to mix and match bulb types a bit to get the trim finishes that I wanted.
All in all under $20 per light for 4” cans with nice adjustable trims seemed like a pretty stellar deal.
