Driver Info: HX-1175b & HX-1175B1 (Pic Heavy)

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ImA4Wheelr
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Glad to hear you got the right driver finely.  Did you get the "B1" version?

I'm assuming you are meaning using a 105C driver board as opposed to just an unmounted Attiny chip.   The PWM feed should only be wired one way as the first way I did it basically takes you into direct drive.  I didn't notice any whining, but I have to tell you that I'm pretty deaf to high frequencies.

I think the whining was amplified by having the driver hanging in the air and not having the heavy brass ring on the driver (like I did with the Post 52 pictures). I think just mounting the MCU properly and also mounting the driver in a light would eliminate most of the whining.  I bet my potting recipe would absorb the rest of whining as it is a clay like substance.

I want to solve the whining issue too.  Hope to get back to the driver this week.  I need it for a couple lights.  I'll ask my wife to listen and report back.

EDIT:  Opps, forgot about your frequency question.  9kHz.  Here are the lines from DrJones' MiniMo FW:

#define F_CPU 4800000                    //use fuses  low:0x75  high:0xff
TCCR0A=0b00100001; TCCR0B=0b00000001; //PWM setup, 9kHz
DB Custom
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Hooked PWM to the 30,000 ohm resistor on the MCU side of the resistor, got ground from the ground ring and power in to the ATiny13A from the pad at the lower right side of the board.

Once I figured out the wiring to the e-switches in the TK61 (*&@#*~!!) it pulls 7.15A to the de-domed XM-L2.

comfychair
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Have the 10-pin and 6-pin chips been definitively ID'd? The 10-pin one looks awfully similar to the Linear Tech buck or boost controllers.

ImA4Wheelr
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That would be cool if someone knew the answer to CC's question.

DBCstm wrote:

Hooked PWM to the 30,000 ohm resistor on the MCU side of the resistor, . . .

For some reason, I couldn't get the driver to work when I tied in down stream from the point I tied into in Post 52.  I was tying VCC in at a different point though when I did that.  I will have to try that again.  Do you know if there is any benefit to feeding the PWM through the resistor?  Where I tied, PWM of 1 works.  How low can you go tying in through the resistor?

RaceR86
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Tried the recipe in post 52 with a regular Qlite just to test.

Nothing. Cant post picture to photobucket right now due to maintenance or something.

Any reason why a regular Qlite should not work?

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ImA4Wheelr
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Are you tying in where the "B" is in the picture or where the wire is soldered.  The wire is wrong. 

DBCstm tied in on the MCU side of the 30K resistor.  That might work.

EDIT: A picture might help if the above doesn't fix you up.

RaceR86
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Not sure exactly what you mean.

I tried on the MCU side of the 30K resistor too.

Here is how I wired it first.

From the Qlite, the wires were connected here: (picture from my other HX1175B, looks extra dirty due to light)

 

Found my error when looking over this post. You can see it in the first picture. Two of the legs where the HX-1175B MCU stood were connected. Problem solved.

There is some high frequent whine on "medium" with the qlite too.  Mode spacing with regular Qlite firmware is really strange.

Low - 0,4A

Medium - 0,87A

High - 7,9A

Im glad it works. Thanks a lot ImA4Wheelr! Smile

When I learn to program and flash these drivers I should be able to get nice mode spacing.. Please let me know if someone is able to find a solution for the whining.

Here is a close up picture if you need it.

Edit after a little tweak:

0,05A

0,99A

8,12

Well regulated down to about 5,6V. High sinks down towards 8A.

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wight
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comfychair wrote:

Have the 10-pin and 6-pin chips been definitively ID’d? The 10-pin one looks awfully similar to the Linear Tech buck or boost controllers.

AFAIK they have definitely not been ID’d. The 10-pin is almost certainly an MCU of some type though…

RaceR86’s “other” board shows an “A” on the 6-pin chip. The 10-pin MCU is really well ground, looks like they built a machine to do that.

Racer86’s 10-pin chip does show an important marking though. There’s the dimple for pin-1 but there’s also a little dot beside that. It seems that the dot must be part of the manufacturer’s marking or logo, it almost certainly does not indicate a pin or anything. I don’t know who. Maybe someone wants to pour over sites like this one.

RaceR86 wrote:

Not sure exactly what you mean.

I tried on the MCU side of the 30K resistor too.

Here is how I wired it first.

From the Qlite, the wires were connected here: (picture from my other HX1175B, looks extra dirty due to light)

Found my error when looking over this post. You can see it in the first picture. Two of the legs where the HX-1175B MCU stood were connected. Problem solved.

There is some high frequent whine on “medium” with the qlite too.  Mode spacing with regular Qlite firmware is really strange.

Low – 0,4A

Medium – 0,87A

High – 7,9A

Im glad it works. Thanks a lot ImA4Wheelr! Smile

When I learn to program and flash these drivers I should be able to get nice mode spacing.. Please let me know if someone is able to find a solution for the whining.

Here is a close up picture if you need it.

Where is the whining coming from, can you tell? Consider potting the driver, as suggested by ImA4Wheelr. I assume that epoxy potting will be much better at quieting it down than his clay-like recipe, but also way less reversible ;-).

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

RaceR86
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Cant tell where the whine comes from.

I can tell you that my analog meter on my power supply says about 7,8V and 5,6A input. Or 43,68W

Emitter current at about 8,1A (XM-L2) then voltage should be about 4,2 according to graphs. 34,02W at the emitter

None of those numbers are precise. But that gives me a bit below 80% efficiency and more than 9W of heat in the driver with the combo above.

Long before this thread was started I had some numbers that said about 85% efficiency, but those numbers were not super accurate either, and emitter amps were lower.

Either way. 9W is a lot of heat for a driver circuit, so better make sure its able to get rid of that heat.

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
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DB Custom
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I hooked the PWM in at the resistor labeled 303, right there next to the PWM. Used the pad for the resistor closest to the MCU.

If I understand it right, the whine comes through ground. Make sure your ground connections are all solid.

RaceR86
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Hooked the PWM up the the 303 resistor like you did since that was the last place I had it when I found the error.

PWM whine does not come from ground.

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
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ImA4Wheelr
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Glad to hear you got it going.  I guess I need take some pictures of a proper connection.  I tried to explain in Post 52 that the pictures that the wire was not connected to the correct pin, but the "B" marking was where to connect.

Wight,

I have to disagree with you about epoxy being superior to clay in deadening sound.  I use to build speakers and clay is an excellent material for helping preventing reflections that cause standing waves and such within a speaker enclosure.  It absorbs sound waves (higher frequencies) and vibrations very well.  I'm not claiming to be an expert, but epoxy is much harder and more likely to transmit vibration.

wight
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You could be right. I recommended epoxy based on it’s lower viscosity. My logic was that a lower viscosity would allow the epoxy to better conform to everything. Epoxy is normally used for potting electronics of all types. I assumed that if we could limit the movement of the stuff that whines then there wouldn’t be any noise to deaden in the way that you describe.

I’m quite sure about the lower viscosity being an asset for thermal potting, but I’m definitely not sure about the noise part.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

ImA4Wheelr
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And I should also say that you could be right.  My recipe will press into almost all the small crevices with ease, but it probably won't get under a component (where as epoxy may get pulled under by capillary action).  Your really need to play with the stuff to appreciate it.  I should note that it is very difficult to remove it from those small crevices.

wight
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I need to try that recipe anyway. You’re still using the Duct Seal version, right? I’ve added that to my shopping list for the next time I go to town.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

ImA4Wheelr
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Yes, that particular duct seal that is specified in the thread.  I wouldn't substitute oil based clays.  In my experience, oil based clays liquify when they get too warm.  I don't know what that duct seal is made of.  It seems like an oil base clay, but it doesn't run when it get hot.

wight
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I still do not know what MCU is in use. A similar looking MCU (similar grinding, similar white dot) is used in two Eagle Eye drivers as well:
Eagle Eye X6
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/32145 (scroll to nearly the bottom of post #1)
Eagle Eye X2
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/30582

Note that djozz shows slightly different markings from what was on RaceR86’s driver. From what I can see it’s an open circle and a filled circle? (and of course also the big dimple, I’m not talking about that)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

ImA4Wheelr
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Taking pictures of the front and back of 2 of those MCU's.  Should post them in a few minutes.

ImA4Wheelr
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Bottom MCU upside down (That is an "H06" with a dot over the "H"):

ImA4Wheelr
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Top MCU upside down:  Appears to say "A10"

DB Custom
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Mine had 2 R068 sense resistors and I blew several XM-L2’s at Turbo. Worked fine in the lower modes but Turbo turned it Off. Poof!

I looked to the star, the thermal path on mine was a bit low so I used solder paste to fill it and got an XM-L2 working at 7.15A. But I coudn’t get it to throw like the current indicated it should. So I tried to put a different resistor on it. Poof! I mean as soon as Turbo is selected it simply goes off, then the emitter is dead.

So I did the math on the sense resistors. Stock the resistance is .034 or thereabouts (not at my desk) So I pulled one of the R068 and stacked 2 R200 there for .040 total. This got me 4.83A at the emitter and all was well. Only I was getting lower output of course. And I didn’t get this TK61 to do 150Kcd. So I did some more math and decided to use an R140 in place of one R200 for some .037 total resistance. Poof!

Getting realllllly tired of poof!

So I pulled the star, put a copper Comex star with a Luminus SST-50 on it. The 20mm star is too small of course, so I cut a disc of copper at a similar thickness and put it under the Comex, my new disc is maybe 30mm. Just fits between the lead holes. Then I stacked a second R140 on top of the R200/R140 stack. So now my total resistance should be less, at around .027 or so. The Luminus is getting 5.60A measured between the pack and the driver. (The 7A reading was actual emitter amperage, taken from a loop soldered into the neg lead with my clamp meter)

It works, works pretty well actually, and is doing 162Kcd or so (again, I don’t have actual numbers here as I’m on a different computer and not at my desk with all my notes) But pulling the dome off the SST-50 didn’t net the throw gains normally associated with the Cree emitters.

I have one of the new Noctigon 35mm copper stars on the way. I plan to try a de-domed XP-L here and see where that goes. I need to get new sense resistors as I don’t trust the R068 I pulled off. Might just get the next step up from that as well in an effort to lower amperage a bit.

FWIW, I used a Qlite board that was totally stripped…put a new ATiny13A with Star firmware on it, used the resistors as usual but no regulators. I did a Zener mod so that the ATiny13A can get power directly through the board. If you’ll notice the via with a pad in the lower right hand quadrant, beside a cap, above the 151 resistor, that’s where I got power for the ATiny13A.

I used it a fair amount at 7.15A, the 5 modes worked well, low was quite low (no notes here) but I couldn’t get focus where I wanted it and the best throw I got was just over 500Kcd (yeah yeah, my memory sucks…might have been 555Kcd but not sure) So yeah, I screwed it up but plan on making it rock again. Silly

ImA4Wheelr
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What cell configuration are you using Dale?  Sounds like you may be feeding too much power to the Attiny and then it's transmitting too much voltage in the PWM signal to the HX-1175.

Where are you connecting the PWM into on the board?  The same spot you spoke of in Post 70 above?

EDIT:

I recommend you power the attiny from the pad with an "X" below.  The pad between the MCU and the yellow component labeled "226A, 90HF1".  I don't know if you need to take off the zener mod.

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When I make any changes at all I put the light completely back together to test it, save for leaving the reflector out in order to clamp the meter on the wire loop at the emitter (most of the time)

So the power supply is the battery carrier in the TK61. I have 4 Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh cells in it. I’ve also got the extension tube with 4 more but don’t use that when testing.

And yes, I connected pwm at the MCU side of the 30,000 resistor, just off the pwm leg of the mcu (mcu removed of course) so I’m bringing the pwm back in where it was originally coming from…the signal then goes through the 2 resistors on the way to the controller just as it was originally set up.

With the Zener mod to the Qlite board, the MCU cannot get over 4.5V. Works on a dozen or more drivers I’ve built for MT-G2’s so it should work here, right?

ImA4Wheelr
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Hopefully, someone that knows a lot more than me can help you.  I'm wondering if the zener is not adequately bringing down the voltage to the Attiny.

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buying an SBT-70 and putting it in this TK61, letting the power fly. Wink Ultimate throw be damned (I’ve already got 617Kcd in another light)

comfychair
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attiny13 just stops working if voltage goes over 6v. Besides, whatever component is getting the PWM signal operates from a digital signal (either on, or off) so more voltage or less voltage on the PWM pin should have no effect on the output. 6 volts is just as 'on' as 4 volts.

wight
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ImA4Wheelr wrote:
Sounds like you may be feeding too much power to the Attiny and then it’s transmitting too much voltage in the PWM signal to the HX-1175
I don’t think this is the case. Comfy’s explanation is correct, a higher voltage on the buck controller’s PWM input will not cause the problem DBCstm described.

It’s more likely that the driver produces high voltage spikes at higher currents. We have that problem with other drivers as well. The “big” LEDs seem to cope with this better than the XM-L/L2.

I did think that the hx-1175b was shown to work OK driving an XM- series LED at higher currents than that though… Am I remembering wrong?

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

ImA4Wheelr
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I thought some buck controllers do relative voltage adjustment. 

Are you two talking generalities, or about this specific buck controller?   If generalities, do you feel 100% certain that it's safe to rule out the PWM voltage as the potential issue?

 

wight
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“generalities” puts a negative spin on what we are saying. We are telling you how all PWM inputs work.

The only thing a PWM signal communicates is “high” or “low” (two states, like zero and one).

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

ImA4Wheelr
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Not trying to cast dispersions on what you 2 are saying.  Just trying to figure out what we know for certain in order to figure out how to help Dale.

The driver seems stable, but I have not used an oscilloscope or anything to search for spikes.  Given no other options at the moment, I think Dale should grab the voltage from the point I recommend he use in Post 82 and see what happens.

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