[WIP][mostly retired] 17mm DD+7135 -- linear regulated driver w/ FET turbo

106 posts / 0 new
Last post
Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

good idea, I have such a arduino ordered anyway.

I just added a case construction instead of using the TWO7135 constants I went with simple numbers so that the columns of the modes match. I named the additional array const_modes(not so happy with this name..) and just initialized everything like it was on the other modestypes Jonny mac has made.

http://codeviewer.org/view/code:46e6
seems to work with three 7135.

different numbers of 7135 will of course make it difficult because you would have to “calculate” which you have to switch on when…For now I can live with one to 6 no PWM adjustments….there are no pins left so i guess the only possibility would be stacking and then the people have to do the math themself…that would be to complicated because some combinations would be excluded and others changed…that should be done before programming and i have no clue how to do that…

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

I have updated this board with a thicker GND ring on top and new, more legible silkscreen for D1. I thnk I also tweaked the copper pour for LED- to flow slightly better into the FET pad – a purely aesthetic change. These changes are based on changes I implemented for the A17DD-SO8 driver.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/pcTBBHOv

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

When I came over here to post the v024 update I saw Werner’s post #61 again. That got me thinking, so I updated the driver to v026.

Werner is using only 3×7135, controlled by 2 pins on the ATtiny. One 7135 connects to Pin5. The other two 7135’s connect to Pin3. In v024 and earlier this makes the bottom of the board lopsided because all of those 7135 positions are next to each other.

To combat this I made it easy to drive all 5 of the non-PWM 7135 positions from Pin3. I moved the via next to Pin1 a little bit to make the trace easy to cut on top of the board (so it’s not visible after the build). I also ran a trace from the via over to a solder jumper at the pad for Pin3. You should be able to place a small bit of solder there and still operate a clip. If the jumper requires too much solder and makes using an SOIC clip a pain I’ll tweak it.

Once you’ve cut the trace and soldered the jumper you can then run 3×7135 like Werner did, but in a nice triangle configuration.


https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/7FzwbScm

There appears to be an error in the OSH Park render such that the BLF text is spun around. I’ve emailed support about this. It works fine in GERBV. (No it doesn’t. What was I thinking? I’ll upload a version with the text in the correct orientation!)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 4 weeks ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

Is there firmware available yet?

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

I wasn’t brave enough yet, because of the fuse thing. And I was to lazy to build a fuse resetter…
so there is just the above posted version which works but without support for the 3×7135 group, but it doesn’t ruin the tiny for sure.

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 4 weeks ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

Thanks Werner, appreciate the work being done on this. Unlike the LD-1 this one could run an MT-G2.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

Rufusbduck wrote:
Is there firmware available yet?
Technically I think you can run the dual-PWM STAR firmware with these, just like RMM’s Moonlight Special. It’ll only take advantage of a single 7135, but you should be able to achieve consistent, low, moon modes. AFAIK that should work for ontime and offtime clicky builds.

Werner’s momentary code from post #61 should work; Werner has tested it but I have not. That code is for controlling 3×7135s and can be easily adapted for 2 as well with the old hardware. With the new hardware Werner’s code can be adapted to run as many as you want but they’ll still be controlled together (for example 1 with PWM and the other 5 as on/off together).

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 21 hours ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 20718
Location: Heart of Texas

I just sat down and read through some of these revisions and wow! Pretty sure it’s just me…

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

Oh, also I don’t think Werner made it clear but that momentary firmware could also be used for one-shot programming of ATtiny13A’s with our normal USBASP programmer. If you know your modes configuration it seems to me that Werner’s firmware is good to go… you just can’t reprogram.

DBCstm wrote:
I just sat down and read through some of these revisions and wow! Pretty sure it’s just me…
I probably make it sound more complex than it really is. There’s really nothing super complicated about it the design, it just turns different quantities of 7135 on and off, plus has an FET to turn on and off.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

SJT
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 07/26/2013 - 18:22
Posts: 63
Location: Nordic

Hi guys, excellent work as usual! Smile Im just wondering wouldn’t that be excellent driver for one XM-L2 if we put 8 7135’s and use Attiny13a to control it like 1×7135, 1+3×7135 and 1+3+4×7135, so then we have quite nice efficiency on all modes right? Maybe this 1×7135 should go with PWM if possible. Next we need someone who can draw this driver to Oshphark and little more code. No need for FET, we could stack 7135’s if more power needed right? What do you think?

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

Thanks!

Stacked 7135’s can’t do what the FET can.

Also, this driver is on OSH Park.

Maybe after the firmware is solid for this one I will make an 8×7135 driver with no FET.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany
SJT wrote:
Hi guys, excellent work as usual! Smile Im just wondering wouldn’t that be excellent driver for one XM-L2 if we put 8 7135’s and use Attiny13a to control it like 1×7135, 1+3×7135 and 1+3+4×7135, so then we have quite nice efficiency on all modes right? Maybe this 1×7135 should go with PWM if possible. Next we need someone who can draw this driver to Oshphark and little more code. No need for FET, we could stack 7135’s if more power needed right? What do you think?

Pilotpptk once made this but it got never released…

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/22899

Microa
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 06/29/2011 - 21:20
Posts: 243

Werner wrote:
I wasn’t brave enough yet, because of the fuse thing. And I was to lazy to build a fuse resetter…
so there is just the above posted version which works but without support for the 3×7135 group, but it doesn’t ruin the tiny for sure.

There is a very easy to build fuse resetter that I have tested it works. www.simpleavr.com/avr/hvsp-fuse-resetter
scottyhazzard
scottyhazzard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/09/2011 - 19:02
Posts: 1127
Location: Northern California

I look forward to a day when this has established firmware…

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

WarHawk-AVG
WarHawk-AVG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 weeks ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 06:47
Posts: 5071
Location: H-Town

Microa wrote:
Werner wrote:
I wasn’t brave enough yet, because of the fuse thing. And I was to lazy to build a fuse resetter…
so there is just the above posted version which works but without support for the 3×7135 group, but it doesn’t ruin the tiny for sure.

There is a very easy to build fuse resetter that I have tested it works. www.simpleavr.com/avr/hvsp-fuse-resetter

I took this guys version and cut it down smaller, only need the adapter board for the ATtiny13
http://mdiy.pl/atmega-fusebit-doctor-hvpp/?lang=en

Atmega fusebit doctor (HVPP+HVSP) Short board Warhawk’s tweak

adapter_HVSP WarHawk’s tweak

Can cut everything off above DA7 for even smaller board

I think on the guys later revisions, he fixed the problem with one of the traces on his board that got cut by a drill (this is his unmodified full size board [other than me tweaking and filling the polygon pours between traces], look at the very bottom in the center, the power trace runs right thru a drill hit) [I did mention it to him in his thread, I think he fixed it, but my tweak I re-routed it for the “short board”]

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 10654
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

scottyhazzard wrote:
I look forward to a day when this has established firmware…

Could we just drop one of the groups of 7135 chips? That would make things quite a bit easier… Only four pins are freely assignable without consequence, and the driver tries to do I/O for at least five independent components.

So, it would then have:

  • PWM1 = FET
  • PWM2 = 1×7135
  • I/O A = Nx7135
  • I/O B = off-time cap or e-switch

And no need for any new flashing hardware.

Adding a PWM-controllable 7135 chip to a FET driver is a huge upgrade which addresses most of the shortcomings of a FET. Adding a second set of 7135 chips, minus the PWM, helps make a medium mode more efficient but otherwise has limited usefulness. A third set has even more diminishing returns, and comes at a pretty high cost (either requires overlapping pin functions and harder flashing, or requires dropping the off-time/switch pin).

Personally, I’d drop the second set of 7135 chips too, and make room for another sensor or something. One FET, one 7135, and two pins assignable for switch, off-time cap, or thermometer.

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

I don’t see big problems with the fuse resetting. If once a working firmware is available we just need to flash it once. I seldom change my firmware, I also never use the stars, I just make it like I want it to be and voila…

My arduino nano board arrived today, I will try to add a transistor and some resistors in the next days…a nano costs less than 4$.
I will try this:
http://homepage.hispeed.ch/peterfleury/avr-hvsp-fuse-restore.html
—-
Warhawk a PCB for fuse resetting is cool, it looks a bit big. How are the dimensions?

Adding a wire to my soic clip and using a “fake ISP” socket to reset the fuses, seems to be the best way for resetting assembled drivers, I hope that works because there is 12V on the reset pin!!!

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

ToyKeeper wrote:
scottyhazzard wrote:
I look forward to a day when this has established firmware…

Could we just drop one of the groups of 7135 chips? That would make things quite a bit easier… Only four pins are freely assignable without consequence, and the driver tries to do I/O for at least five independent components.

So, it would then have:

  • PWM1 = FET
  • PWM2 = 1×7135
  • I/O A = Nx7135
  • I/O B = off-time cap or e-switch

And no need for any new flashing hardware.

Adding a PWM-controllable 7135 chip to a FET driver is a huge upgrade which addresses most of the shortcomings of a FET. Adding a second set of 7135 chips, minus the PWM, helps make a medium mode more efficient but otherwise has limited usefulness. A third set has even more diminishing returns, and comes at a pretty high cost (either requires overlapping pin functions and harder flashing, or requires dropping the off-time/switch pin).

Personally, I’d drop the second set of 7135 chips too, and make room for another sensor or something. One FET, one 7135, and two pins assignable for switch, off-time cap, or thermometer.

Freely assignable without consequence: you mean 5 pins, not 4? 8-3=5, or am I ignoring something again? You were referring to the pins that are left after we establish a voltage monitoring pin.

As far as the groups.. I’d say the FET and the first 7135 get you repeatable Moon mode with PWM and maybe a small Low without PWM. The second set gets you up to a total of 2.28A for your regular usage mode, PWM free – so no buzz. With 6 spaces and the option for .35 or .38A components you’ve got a pretty granular ability to setup Medium/High for PWM free operation. With this 7135+FET driver I do agree that any extra sets of 7135 beyond set 1 and 2 are gravy; eg the driver should work acceptably without 4 outputs.

Note that v026 is posted above in post #63 and allows for the FET + 1*7135 + 1-to-5*7135 setup, allowing you to stop using Pin1 and still use all 6 placements if desired. If a temp sensor is desired Pin1 can be fused for use and setup as an ADC. [EDIT: and in that case you’d cut the trace and solder the temp sensor lead directly to Pin1, which is fine because you’d have to remove the MCU from the PCB for any changes anyway since it would require HVSP.]

Werner wrote:
I don’t see big problems with the fuse resetting. If once a working firmware is available we just need to flash it once. I seldom change my firmware, I also never use the stars, I just make it like I want it to be and voila…

My arduino nano board arrived today, I will try to add a transistor and some resistors in the next days…a nano costs less than 4$.
I will try this:
http://homepage.hispeed.ch/peterfleury/avr-hvsp-fuse-restore.html
—-
Warhawk a PCB for fuse resetting is cool, it looks a bit big. How are the dimensions?

Adding a wire to my soic clip and using a “fake ISP” socket to reset the fuses, seems to be the best way for resetting assembled drivers, I hope that works because there is 12V on the reset pin!!!

I agree with the rest, but I don’t think HVSP is intended for in-circuit programming. If Pin1 is attached to Vdd on a 7135 then HVSP will take the 7135 out of spec: there will be 12v on Vdd and 0v on GND, I expect the 7135 to fry.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 4 weeks ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

Since an FET is the least efficient on pwm why not have two sets of pwm 7135’s and the FET fixed (on or off only) and just use it for turbo. With 6 × 7135 that would give up to 2A on pwm and a genuine jump to turbo.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

I like that, and the FET can probably take 12v on gate too IIRC (so maybe in-circuit HVSP?), but that prevents smooth turbo ramp down.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Cereal_killer
Cereal_killer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 07/22/2013 - 13:10
Posts: 4005
Location: Ohio
wight wrote:
There appears to be an error in the OSH Park render such that the BLF text is spun around. I’ve emailed support about this. It works fine in GERBV. (No it doesn’t. What was I thinking? I’ll upload a version with the text in the correct orientation!)

The issue is with using non-vector text, what “vector” is is text that each point / line corresponds to an exact coordinate so it will always be rendered / printed EXACTLY as it appears on the screen. Trying to use proportional text you will end up with the text slightly different, either shifted or miss-alligned or even contorted out of shape. I ALWAYS use vector. To many time’s I had boards that came with the text moved half way off the board or moved up to a copper area (and thus not printed at all) or some other way messed up, not once since switching to vector (and also centering it on the point) have I had a render / printing issue.

I cant tell on my phone screen, its to small, maybe it is but if not you really should use vector text.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

Cereal_killer wrote:
I cant tell on my phone screen, its to small, maybe it is but if not you really should use vector text.
I use vector text so that I can control the stroke thickness.

The issue was just that I was mistaken. I checked my BRD and Gerber files and the OSH Park render and simply became confused. The text is rotated incorrectly, I will correct this in the next version.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Werner
Werner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 15:00
Posts: 3679
Location: Germany

there is only one way to find out I what happens if you power a 7135 with 12V…

I looked in the data sheets I have and some rate it for 10V max on Vdd, so with a bit tolerance and good luck it will work. Or you have to add a jumper pad to the circuit which needs to be bridged to power the 7135 on the resetpin…or I just cut the trace and bridge it afterwards.
I will try to build a resetter and test it in circuit in near future.

I have thought again about removing the tiny for resetting and with a hot air this is a breeze, so a fuse resetter with a smd pad for a tiny could work like the one Warhawks has in mind. Just desolder it press it on the pcb with a finger and voila…

WarHawk-AVG
WarHawk-AVG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 weeks ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 06:47
Posts: 5071
Location: H-Town

Werner wrote:
I don’t see big problems with the fuse resetting. If once a working firmware is available we just need to flash it once. I seldom change my firmware, I also never use the stars, I just make it like I want it to be and voila…

My arduino nano board arrived today, I will try to add a transistor and some resistors in the next days…a nano costs less than 4$.
I will try this:
http://homepage.hispeed.ch/peterfleury/avr-hvsp-fuse-restore.html
—-
Warhawk a PCB for fuse resetting is cool, it looks a bit big. How are the dimensions?

Adding a wire to my soic clip and using a “fake ISP” socket to reset the fuses, seems to be the best way for resetting assembled drivers, I hope that works because there is 12V on the reset pin!!!

The Atmega fusebit doctor (HVPP+HVSP) Short board Warhawk’s tweak
2 layer board of 2.10×1.79 inches (53.34×45.52 mm)
cost $18.80 per set of three.

The adapter_HVSP WarHawk’s tweak
2 layer board of 1.53×2.10 inches (38.76×53.34 mm).
cost $16.00 per set of three

I don’t have em shared, or have tested them either

Question, is the Teensy an Arduino compatible unit..they are $17 from OSHPark I believe
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/teensy31.html
http://store.oshpark.com/products/teensy-3-1

Interesting http://www.technogumbo.com/2010/04/Why-Teensy-is-Better-Than-Arduino/

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

WarHawk-AVG wrote:
Question, is the Teensy an Arduino compatible unit..they are $17 from OSHPark I believe
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/teensy31.html
http://store.oshpark.com/products/teensy-3-1
I don’t think that’s the question. Wink Not when we are picking up Arduino clones for <$5.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

Rufusbduck wrote:
Since an FET is the least efficient on pwm why not have two sets of pwm 7135’s and the FET fixed (on or off only) and just use it for turbo. With 6 × 7135 that would give up to 2A on pwm and a genuine jump to turbo.
wight wrote:
I like that, and the FET can probably take 12v on gate too IIRC (so maybe in-circuit HVSP?), but that prevents smooth turbo ramp down.
Interest has been expressed in not using Pin1 (Reset). There are not a lot of different pin configurations which make any kind of sense. Here’s what’s on my mind, please let me know if I’m missing something:
Pin 1 (Reset)Pin 3 (on/off)Pin 5 (PWM)Pin 6 (PWM)v029 trace config
Current/Original3*71352*7135FET1*7135c+a
alt Current (v026)n/c5*7135FET1*7135a
proposedn/cFET5*71351*7135b
proposedn/c????

If anyone thinks it’s worth messing with for testing, I’ve devised a PCB which requires trace cutting before use but allows all 3 configurations (as a one-time setup option). I absolutely do not think that this is a great idea for most people building their own boards, as it is too confusing and trace-cutting in this location is basically one-way. This is really just intended as a semi-flexible test platform. Note that “c” is on the bottom and requires both cutting and a solder jumper. EDIT: “a”, “b”, and “c” all indicate CUTS which must be performed.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

TheGloriousTachikoma
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 4 months ago
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 09:23
Posts: 946
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Wight, has low-voltage protection been designed into this driver?

wight
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/27/2013 - 16:40
Posts: 4969
Location: Virginia, USA

TheGloriousTachikoma wrote:
Wight, has low-voltage protection been designed into this driver?
Yes. Resistor values for one cell are 22k/4.7k 1%. I’ve found those values to be acceptable. For a lower-voltage activation of LVP some may want to tweak firmware values very slightly I think.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

hank
hank's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 6 days ago
Joined: 09/04/2011 - 21:52
Posts: 9569
Location: Berkeley, California

> wight and ck
> (and me) …. torn off ground rings …

> rufusbduck
> I like the idea of lots of gnd ring vias to anchor the copper, also on critical led+/- pads. I like having some of the gnd ring vias a bit larger in dia to allow for ground wires

Yes yes from the sidelines here. Anything that puts more copper through the board, especially along the edges where it can be press fit to make a decent connection for ground …

I’d guess this is where homemade drivers will excel — being willing to spend a bit more metal to make something people can fiddle with a few times without destroying it.

Now if you could solder the driver board right into a retaining ring so the whole thing would screw down into the pill ….

Rufusbduck
Rufusbduck's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 4 weeks ago
Joined: 04/04/2012 - 15:34
Posts: 10389
Location: Golden state

hank wrote:

Now if you could solder the driver board right into a retaining ring so the whole thing would screw down into the pill ….

Ok if you don’t mind the emitter wires twisting in the process

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

Pages